Oh, I shouldn't be laughing so hard but my nephew has been asking me for advice regarding choosing a college. Naturally I've been trying to steer him clear of BYU. He isn't actually a terribly mature boy and should probably think about joining the armed forces or something similar before going to school. But today he emailed me asking why I hadn't recommended BYU given that it is practically "in the I.V. league."

I haven't figured out what to reply yet because I can't stop laughing.

Classic!
BYU is in a league of it's own, a legend in it's own mind.

I.V. league?

your nephew thinks they are Intravenous?

As one who went from BYU to the Ivy league, I can tell you no one has any respect for BYU, at least not in my field.

We have the solution!

I'm not sure what they are putting in their IV if they really think they are Ivy league.

I teach in science/engineering and know that BYU is not respected in that realm.

Is it any more respected in business or other academic fields?

The business school is well regarded.

I went to grad school at USC. One of my classmates was a TBM who had gone to BYU. I asked him once why he didn't just get his MBA from BYU since they seemed to have a decent business school. His reply was, and I quote, "It's not as good as they think it is."

There was another grad student who'd gone to the UofU so naturally they always hung out together. One time they were walking by and the BYU guy was wearing a suit for a job interview on campus. I called out, "Nice suit! Mr. Mac?" The UofU guy thought that was really funny.

I got a business degree from BYU and looked into the MBA program. At that time anyway, they were not taking BYU bus undergraduates because they pretty much taught the same classes. SO despite having a decent reputation overall, the business school I mean, the MBA program could not have been much if they teach undergrad classes re-branded as grad school classes.

#415 in the national rankings isn't I.V. let alone IVY.

Both of my brothers in law have byu business degrees and MBAs and currently have pretty goood jobs ... But it was a hard road since only Mormons know of it and really have any respect for it

My friend who worked on Wall St. went to a state university for his undergraduate degree and got his MBA from Stanford. He said that his lack of an Ivy League degree left him at somewhat of a disadvantage when it came to job hunting. His Ivy League spouse and friends got their pick of the choice jobs. He did not. This was back in the 80s and 90s, but I don't imagine it has changed all that much in certain sectors. So depending on your field of endeavor, there may be no "close" or "practically" or "near" Ivy. A school is either Ivy League or it's not.

Even if I were to pick out schools as being near-Ivy, BYU would not be on the list. Certain departments (i.e. the business school) are respected there. Otherwise I would equate BYU to a B-level state school -- solid, but not outstanding.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/30/2014 10:18AM by summer.

If your son wants something in the I.V. league maybe he can look into med school :-)

On and off BYU has accreditation problems. At one time they were supposedly only accredited by a barber college or meat cutters union - or so the legend goes.

Their systematic censorship and lack of academic freedom causes them problems with recognition.

A few of their disciplines are OK but overall they are minor league. And don't even try transferring much of the 'religion' class credit.

have him check out university peer groups and fora speakers at BYU. Hint- BYU has quit accepting speakers who offer outside influences and different perspectives. the only speaking being done at BYU today is by LDS general authorities. BYU is now nothing more than a glizier Bob Jones U except that it's possible (not likely) that Bob Jones is more fun. i went there years ago and came too close to graduating. Thankfully I transfered to a major state university in another state and finished there. But when I was at BYU it was twice as accademic as people consider it to be today. It has only gone bacwards accademically.

Local Utah news reported the average salaries after 5 years for graduates of BYU, U of U, USU. BYU was top at $50,000. UofU, $48K, USU, $46K.

A lot of national companies recruit there. Also, I grew up near ivy league universities. They always had a herd of BYU graduates going to grad school at the ivies.

I was in software. In that field, nobody much cares where you went to school, and if you can demonstrate the skills they need, they don't much care if you went to school at all. They do get pretty cranky if you lie about it, however. I've seen that happen a few times.

To all the claims that BYU is not respected out in the real world - the real world appears to fine with BYU. You don't respect it, and assume that is universal.

Yeah, I know, Phi Betta Kappa won't approve a chapter at BYU. That is basically academic politics, and as the aphorism goes, academic politics is the most vicious kind, because there is so little at stake.

Agree with this. Most people only know about it through the sports reporting. And most assume that even though it is a religious school that it is more like some if the catholic universities, that it is an undertone, and many don't really take it too seriously. Based on actual employment, I would say it is better than say trying to use university if Idaho in a different state, and worse than a nationally respected name. So, just kinda neutral. As I said in the other thread, a personal embarrassment, not a professional one.

The idea of it being massively detrimental is exmo myth, the idea of it being near ivy league is mo myth. Mormonism is still too obscure and somewhat respected for BYU to be a huge negative (Mormons are more trusted in the US than atheists, according to a recent poll...)

Now, if you couple BYU with a mission on your resume and a bunch of God talk during interviews etc, that is a different story :)

What is the graduation rate at BYU, for men and for women?

There is a sampling problem going on in that publication of salary of graduates.

There is a big problem with women dropping out, for obvious reasons...

There usually is, in my opinion. Universities report offers for students who get job offers through the university's career placement centers. But not every student goes through there to get a job. I didn't.

At one time BYU talked about becoming "The Harvard of the West."

Then they woke up to the fact that with such limited academic
freedom and such a limited pool to hire professors from (must
not drink coffee, even at home), they weren't going to compete
with real Ivy League schools, and then they settled for bragging
about how they are the only school where people are "free" to
study the Gospel in the classroom.

SUCH FREEDOM!!!!!!!

IV = intravenous infusion of mind altering potions of questionable manufacture.

Cutting edge medicine from the folks who brought us gay correction technology.

Ask him to name the schools in the Ivy League. Beyond Harvard and Yale, could he? :)

I work with mostly Ivy leaguer's and have 3 ivy league schools as clients.

NO ONE outside of an LDS chapel would put those schools in the same sentence with BYU. They usually use the "its so hard to get in" line, in reality BYU has a lot of of applicants because it is a social status win in mormon culture, not because it is a good school.


Other differences:

The don't have a medical school. They don't have respectable research. A degree from BYU is usually a source of embarrassment in certain fields. No one wants to take transfer credits from them. they ARE NOT IN THE IVY league.

Its like those utahn's that put the BYU football program right up there with the FSU, Alabama and ND.

high hopes is all it is.

I think your nephew needs to spend a little time at a community college or small private college. He needs a few more street smarts before he starts spending the big bucks on the big schools.

When it comes to the "Best Value" or bang for the buck, BYU is ranked #10... right up with all those Ivy League schools.

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/best-value

Well sure, no one is arguing it isn't cheap. Forget I.V., more like D.I.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/30/2014 04:18PM by Dave in Hollywood.

Ha! :)

Here's another angle to consider:

BYU requires 14 religous credit hours to graduate along with some 21-24 General Ed credits as I recall. Those are all a part of the overall 120-ish credit hours for any particular degree, not seperate.

So of your 120 credits for Mechanical Engineering (or Accounting, or anything else) 14 were religion and 24 were generals. Only 82 or so credits were specific to your actual degree.

At another university, you may have the same general ed requirements but not the religion credits. 96 of your credits were specific to your actual degree. You are better educated away from BYU even if the program rankings are similar because you had 14+ degree-specific credits at the non-BYU school.

That's 4-5 extra classes of training.

We all know BYU is not in the same league as ivy league schools. But BYU programs aren't capped at 120 credits. The mechanical engineering degree requires 102.5 credits for the program, on top of religion courses and general education courses.

http://saas.byu.edu/catalog/2013-2014ucat/departments/MechanicalEngr/MeEnMajor.php

Compare this to, say, the university of Utah. Their mechanical engineering program also requires 102.5 credits and has the same basic course work.

http://catalog.utah.edu/preview_program.php?catoid=5&poid=4142

There are other valid reasons that BYU could be inferior to other schools. I personally disliked the close-mindedness of the students, a culture of intellectual stifling, and open discussion of religion in the classrooms. I don't think that this analysis of the number of courses per degree is accurate, however.

Talk about a morphine drip.

The Ivy league, or even more generally, the 1st tier universities, from my perspective, definitely offer some particular advantages over non-ivies.

1. Once you are in, they take very, very, very good care of you, and have a vested interest in making sure you stay in. At BYU, nobody cared about me at all. I met with an advisor only once, and that was to have him tell me to drop out of the pre-med program so that he could give my place to a boy. (he suggested I take nursing) - other that than, I was just one of the masses of students taking huge courses and no one cared whether I succeeded or not.

My first semester at an ivy, I met my professors personally, and since then have sat down with several for one-to-one chats on how I'm doing. I get greeted by name by the professors in the hallways.

2. The reputation of these schools, and their connection with all the other 1st tier schools means you benefit from their networking. I've gotten to meet important people when they came to give a seminar (by meet, I mean, go out to dinner with them) and I've gotten several personal introductions to major people in my field, because my professors know them and hang with them at conferences.

There are special mentor programs to connect you to the right people when you graduate.

BUY kicked my aunt out because she got pregnant out of wed lock. No mater how good their program is or programs are the "honor code" the whole snooping with VT and HT and having to go to church every Sunday. If he ever finds out that the lds church is false while he is a BYU student he will be in a very difficult spot whereas in any other college or university with less lds % not many would probably care.