Hi everyone and thanks so much for your concern and support. I just got back home and need to get some sleep, so I'll make this brief, but I'd be glad to elaborate when I have more time.

After promising to call me Monday night, my son didn't. When I asked him about it yesterday he said the MP told him that he (MP) and I had talked and "everything was ok". The impression my son got was that he didn't need to call. So there's that...

After my son didn't call, I hopped on the next flight to go find him. Both the MP and his sweet secretary had told me that my son would be in the mission office yesterday afternoon so I went straight there. I got there and apologized to the sweet secretary for my impatience the night before and she said she understood (?!). But, I was informed, my son was not there and had no plans of coming. I told her that I wouldn't be going back home until I spoke with him, so she left the room to talk to the MP on the phone.

The sweet secretary never came back and soon 2 guys with "Temple Security" badges came in and asked me to leave the grounds. I have to note that I did make demands and a couple of threats: calling the police (from the night before, which I did - and they assured me they couldn't do anything to help my adult son who was there of his own free will), and contacting the press (if they failed to put me in touch with my son), but I really hadn't even gotten warmed up. On my way to my car, the MP called and said he would text me an address where I could spend some time with my son. He would be there with security.

I made the drive to the address and got pretty worked up on the way there. I was ready for a huge confrontation. But when I pulled up, it was just my son and his companion. I gave him a hug and we all chatted for a minute, then my son said we could go in the local ward house and talk there in private for as long as we needed. I tried several times to get him to go for a ride with me and possibly spend the night, but he didn't feel comfortable with that. He still feels the need to keep up appearances until he's made a definite decision to come home. So anyway, the MP and his security detail showed up, we went in and my son and I had a great talk for a couple of hours. He's very torn on so many levels and isn't ready to come home yet. We agreed on some boundaries for him - things that would indicate he needed to leave (depression symptoms, suggestions of medication, etc.). We also agreed on a plan for next time that did not involve the MP, his security, or his sweet secretary. We talked and cried for a long time, said our farewells, and parted ways.

The MP and I made up and he seemed genuinely interested in helping however he could. He seems like a decent guy. I feel for him. My son is an absolutely wonderful kid, and it hurts terribly to see him struggle. I hope he can really figure out what will make him happy and either come home soon or truly enjoy the rest of his mission.

I feel tons better and am encouraged that my son is maturing so fast and looking at so many things in the right way. I'm optimistic that he's going to be fine.

Thanks again for your all your help and advice.

Reading this, it sound exactly like a made for TV movie I saw back in the 70's? about parents trying to rescue their child from a cult. The security of that Cult saying "sorry, your child doesn't want to see you, they are here on their own free will."

Yes, this story is heartbreaking. I don't see how anyone can come to the conclusion that the CoJCoLDS is not a cult.

Cult, CULT, GOD-DAMNED CULT!!! (yes, I'm having my own problems with relatives who still feel controlled by the cult)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/2014 11:01AM by stillburned.

If the MP were truly a decent guy, as you say, he would have enabled you to have contact with your son without need of demands, threats, church security, or a rushed plane ride. The MP is acting like he is a functionary of a police state.

However I'm glad that you were able to see your son and to provide some supports for him. I hope that your son will contact you swiftly should he feel the need to do so. Good luck moving forward.

Very well said Summer!

"If the MP were truly a decent guy, as you say, he would have enabled you to have contact with your son without need of demands, threats, church security, or a rushed plane ride. The MP is acting like he is a functionary of a police state."

Exactly! Even if he was nice about eventually cooperating, this behavior is reprehensible. It borders unbelievable even if I had heard this as a TBM.

Yeah...summer pretty much just said what I was thinking. This man seems to have become "decent" and "interested in helping" only when backed into a corner where he had no other choice. Please keep in mind that he actively blocked your efforts to communicate with your own son.

Please do not let this end here. Your son is being manipulated, and you are being lied to. The mission president has done everything legal in his power to prevent you from having contact with your son. He hasn't broken any laws, from what you've mentioned, but he has definitely left ethical behavior far, far behind him.

What was your son told -- or threatened -- that made him uncomfortable about getting in the car and taking a ride with his own father? Has he ever been uncomfortable taking a ride with you before?

And why in the world is it necessary for a father to have to go through security guards to speak to his son? That should only be the case if one of the people involved is in jail!

I am basing a lot of my opinions here on my own experience as a missionary. Well, second-hand experience. One of my companions wanted to speak go home but the MP would actively blocked his ability to even speak with the parents. The parents came to see him, making the trip on their own expense and time, yet they came because of their love for their child. And the mission president somehow caught wind of it (I did not do it; I was the one encouraging him to go home! I have reason to believe he had spoken to another missionary whom he considered a friend, and had had his trust betrayed), and showed up with his assistants to make sure my companion could not leave the apartment nor allow the parents to come in to see him.

Please, please, please...go back to see your son again. Or give him a way to get out of there. If you and he are both in the US, there is nothing that legally prevents you from going there or him from leaving.

My gut feeling from your initial post is that your son wants to leave but is scared to do so. Please hold his hand through this whole process and get him out of there.

And please keep us updated. It seems that a lot of people on here are concerned about our situation, and we care about what happens.

That sounds exactly like an attempted cult rescue. Your son is very lucky to have a dad like you. I can't imagine my parents ever doing anything like that. They would totally ignore the entire situation.

You realize that your son is being held by a cult religon don't you? Look at the signs; they don't want you to talk to him, they only allowed you to see him with "security" present.They control his every movement, they did not allow you to be alone with him, you had to see him on church property. Google Church of Scientology and read about how some of those people left their church, it is the same thing. I knew a missionary in Australia that was physically sick for two years because he did not want to be there, but the MP would not let him go home. How do I know, the missionary told me to my face.God knows what that two years did to him. It was sad to watch this kid wither away. Do your son a favor and get him out of there asap. Be a father to him and do what is right. I wish you and your son the very best.

This is quite a disturbing and eye-opening story and I'm glad it was shared. It escalates my concern for my TBM children. I went along completely and whole heartedly with the missionary experience and so the level of control was sort of hidden under the surface. The closest I got was having the MP try to get missionaries to rat each other out.

And I wish I had a father who would show concern in ways like ConcernedDad has done. That would mean a lot to me. I at least hope I'm there for my kids someday if they ever need it.

concerneddad, to outsiders reading this, it's a pretty bad screwed up cult your son is in. Sounds like it could be an episode the Dr. Phil show. Just saying this is not NORMAL. I do realize you're doing the best you can. Most people wouldn't even buy the airplane ticket. KUDOS to you, KEEP up the good work, I'll send positive thoughts your way.

That MP is an asshole. Hopefully your son will just pick up a cell phone and call you and tell you he's coming home, so you don't waste your energy and money next time.

CD
I've followed your posts and want you to know how controlling mission presidents can be. Of course some are worse than others. I served a mission, was TBM for decades and now realize the church is not what it claims. Reading MormonThink etc. opened my eyes.

Now, mission presidents do not want to have missionaries leave on their watch. It reflects on their leadership evaluations with their superiors. There are MPs who might seem nice, but they are operating with cult-like controls etc.

Our mission president (Lincoln Watkins) in my area (San Jose CA Mission) was released a few weeks ago after 3-years and left to his new multi-million dollar estate he had built on some mountain top in Kawai next to Harrison Ford (the actor). It was designed and built while he did his MP term. I did not like him at all. The missionaries would come over to my house after their personal interviews and report.

Here is what this MP did. He would take a companionship, say Elders A and B. Every interview was the same.

MP: Elder A, you are a great missionary. I have total confidence in you. I am pleased with how hard you are working. However, your companion has some issues I'm concerned with, especially breaking the rules and not being obedient. I need you to watch him and report to me when he isn't living the mission guidelines. If he doesn't you will not have success in your companionship.

Then Elder B would go into the room and the MP would say the same thing about Elder A.

In other words, rat each other out.

Your son is in the tight gripes of CONTROL. Who was it in the pre-existence (according to Mormon doctrine) that wanted to control and force you to do things his way? Was it Jesus or Lucifer?

Please know that your son's welfare could well depend on you to rescue him from this hellish grip. He is too young to fully comprehend the control the church has on him. You obviously saw how cult-like the MP controlled your visit. This is not Christ like.

... that irrespective of how the mission president acted, you sent a powerful message to your son. He knows you will do anything necessary to help him, regardless of how confrontational or uncomfortable you become. Whether he returns from his mission early or not, you've showed him how much you love him--and he'll never forget that.

He's a lucky son and you are a wise father.

Thanks for letting us know. If he appends to be in michigan, let us know and we'll keep an eye open for him.

The MP called Security on you? Did he think you were going to harm your son? That is frightening to me.

Sounds to me like the MP is channeling Jim Jones.

IMO, you did the right thing by flying out to see your son. I think it is pretty sad that your son did not want to take a drive with you. Would the MP punish him in some way if he had?

That really bothered me. There has NEVER been a time that my own kids wouldn't get in a car with me. what have they said to this kid to make him afraid of his own father???

Theyve made him feel as if Deity has mandated that he sacrifice his entire existence prior to his mission. This includes family. Family is to be put on the back burner for the mission... any indulgence should be laced with guilt and fear of displeasing God.

and think, "OMG, what have I DONE? I had a chance to escape and was too scared to take it. . ."

And the guilt, shame, and wish to get out keep warring in him.

I wish the best for both of you. You are a valiant Dad for having tried so hard.

Sick, sick cult!

I'm glad you got to see your son. Kudos to you for going out there to check on him!

What I noticed from your story is how they only behaved well after they had the upper hand.

This means that they weren't really being genuine.

They lied to you and your son (told your son it had been resolved so he didn't need to call you and told you your son would be at the mission home) and only "allowed" you to meet with him on church grounds with security there.

Had you presented a violent physical threat, that would be different...but calling police/media does no constitute a threat of physical harm. The only real threat to them is that their control might have been broken.

I agree with what others said about how creepy this sounds from the outside.

I am very glad you and your son made arrangements for how you could meet next time, if needed, without all the cult controls present.

Hang in there!

SG

Is there a link to the original post?

Hey-thanks!

My concern (after reading this & the first thread) is that your son will now be told to ONLY say positive things in his emails. You need a private way to contact him -- not through church email, and not through his ipad/whatever. They (MP/companion) might try to censor what you hear from now on...

This WILL happen.

I complained openly in my emails home as a missionary.

My Mission President often told me he felt "inspired" to let me know that I need to be more positive in my emails... Well not just be more positive but to exclude anything possibly negative as well.

The thing is, Mission Presidents have full access to the myldsmail email accounts missionaries use. If they have suspicions about an elder, they can go read the personal emails...

I don't think it's your son that is struggling with his being on a mission.

Those two bouncers managed to stop you taking your son out for coffee....?
yea, being polite to the aholes pays....

Yours was a prime example and you walked away apologizing to that bitch secretary?

Them calling the Cops or better...The media....
You had all the advantages of the joust and you gave it to them...

That's I'd do...With no hesitation....
Let the Mission President explaing the cops & Media why it wasn't proper for him not to let your Son to speak to you...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/2014 08:32AM by quinlansolo.

You're a great dad.

The m p is a slime.

Don't stop until your son is out

I'll just respond to a few things here and be done.

Yes, it's a cult. I was a member for decades and I've read Steven Hassan's book. I realize that the LDS church has evolved to the point of being a very text book cult - especially in the mission environment. That doesn't mean the people in it aren't decent. People can be conditioned and convinced to do some reprehensible things, but they still have good hearts and they can be reached. My son is not in any physical danger.

I served a mission and things were exactly the same. Yes, they tell missionaries to always be positive in their communications. Yes, they have strict rules about contact with family. And missionaries feel intense pressure to obey ALL the rules. If they don't, they're looked down on by companions, peers, leaders; they will not be successful (no Spirit); and if they screw up enough, they'll be sent home to face the intense disappointment of family, friends, and future dating partners. BYU drops a kids scholarship and deferred acceptance immediately - no questions asked.

My son knew before he left that these people have no real power over him. I made sure he understood that he could do anything he wanted and that if things got bad he could get a taxi to the airport, buy a ticket, and leave.

Nearly everyone my son is close to is LDS - mom, brother, friends, grandparents, extended family, etc. He hasn't told any of them he's struggling; he was only comfortable telling me. I didn't have anyone like that when I was his age and I didn't muster the courage to leave until it was very painful for lots of people. For any of you on the fence about whether it's worthwhile to leave mormonism, I hope you can hear the power in that. If you can't do it for yourself, do it for your children. Having an ex-mo mom or dad who unconditionally loves them can give a child the courage to make a life-altering decision. You might even save a life.

Thanks again everyone. This is a great community.

Concerned Dad,

I think you are an amazing father and are doing a great job. I wish I had had someone level with me before I left on my mission as to what could be expected. I would have, of course, have wanted the option to go home early.

FWIW, my guess is that your son will not always be a member of the cult.

I always wonder why they have security for everything and still think it's unfair when people accuse them of being a cult. listen, your son is right in the middle of the 2 year cult indoctrination process. after all, in the old days every parent knew every location where the child was living, and you sent your letters from there with return addresses. you are going to have to find imaginative ways to help him out. I assume that from now one you can't even guarantee that he will get letters you send him.

<<What was your son told -- or threatened -- that made him uncomfortable about getting in the car and taking a ride with his own father? Has he ever been uncomfortable taking a ride with you before?>>

There were a number of comments along these lines. Maybe I missed something, but knowing mission rules, the way that I read the original OP was that the son was uncomfortable getting in the car WITHOUT HIS COMPANION. Doing that would cause all kinds of trouble if he had any notion of staying on his mission.

Other than that one point, I am in full agreement with most of the comments. When I was on my mission (in England and over 40 years ago), my grandmother became very ill, and I spent some time and three or four phone calls talking with my father about the situation, and whether or not I NEEDED to come home. None of this was ever discussed with the MP, as I just didn't think that it was any of his business. Go figure.

My son's hesitance to go somewhere with me had nothing to do with his relationship with me. He trusts me completely. But doing so would have broken a couple of mission rules: never leave your companion, and no unapproved contact with parents. Not to mention his MP had certainly given him a direct order to NOT go with his dad.

I'm sure he would have gone with me if he was ready to come home. He's not ready for that yet and didn't want to create more problems for himself while still a missionary.

ConcernedDad, I just have to say that I admire your restraint in this situation. I think it is wonderful you went personally to speak to your son, and I have no doubt that you have the correct read on how your son is feeling.

This must be extremely stressful for you, but you are handling it with such dignity. I might add, dignity that this piece of trash MP can only muster with his "security" detail.

One thing I believe you are completely wrong about is that this MP is a good person. Everyone has a conscience and this guy knows what he is doing is flat out wrong and likely harmful to your son, definitely harmful to your relationship with your son. He is acting in HIS own self-interest. He is a bully in a suit.

Just imagining myself in your position, I would do my best to get a copy of the CES letter to each and every one of his children. You mess with mine, I mess with yours.

I really feel that restraint is the way to go. It's fun to think about revenge and tit-for-tat, but I don't think it would do much practical good. In my experience, if you want to help someone (realize their errors, feel remorse, get motivated to change), the best possible course is to love them. Show them respect and kindness.

The MP looked me in the eye a couple times and told me how much he thought of my son and how much it meant that I would come and visit. He was sorry for what he had done and he apologized. At the end of our discussion he told me he would send my son home "a better man". He meant that, and in the best possible way.

He is a decent person. Just as "good" as me and any of you reading this. I don't know him at all, but I think that's a pretty universal truth. We all have erroneous beliefs and chinks in our character. We all behave badly when we get in certain situations. He's been hoodwinked just as I was for so long, but he believes that what he is doing is the best possible thing for my son and even for me. If not for a couple of key turning points in my life, I would be him. And I like to consider myself a decent person.

Maybe I'm naive and wrong. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, though. It makes the world look just a little brighter.

Security? What Security? He called Security? Security as in physical guards and enforcement type Security? What the F does a mission president need a Security detail for?

What the hell? Un- fing believable! God needs Security to protect what exactly for a MP? This just blows my mind all to hell!

Just when I thought I'd heard it all. I’ve never liked using the c-word cult before, but this is cult, cult, cult, cult, cult, cult, cult!


Dad. I hope you let your son know that he is not alone and the you are not alone in your dissaffection. The boy should know that he may have family, friend and church relationships hurt if he chooses to leave the MF but that he will gain hundreds of thousands who accept him and understand 100%.

He will not be alone and will have a fantastic level of support out here in the real world.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/2014 11:28AM by AmIDarkNow?.

I know, right? I was very surprised also. The mission home, mission office, and temple are all on the same grounds. That's why the MP has access to security. I'm sure that's not the case in most missions.

Most surprising things from the past few days:
* when I insisted, I wasn't allowed to talk to my son on the phone
* when I insisted, I wasn't allowed to see my son in person (the MP did change his mind, though, and apologized later)
* that I would be escorted out by security basically because I insisted on seeing my son

The only thing that got through to them was showing up in person and explaining that I would not be leaving the area until I met with my son. By that time, they believed me. I was surprised it took so much.