In a chik-fil-a post, your comments were way too aggressive towards BadGirl and full of my-way-or-the-highway thinking.

And condescending. At one point you even turned the conversation about the concept of eating at chik-fil-a or not into a personal pissing match to list how much you've done for the GLBT cause, and asked "So, tell me BG, what have YOU actually done to make the world a better place?"

Good for you! Pat yourself on the back. Do you feel better now? Remain confident that your opinion is the only one that matters, and make sure to prove everyone wrong who disagrees or works for change in a different way than you mandate.

Very immature. Grow up.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/28/2012 12:32PM by athreehourbore.

I just responded to a post too. That was on the attempted bullying of Anagrammy. Granted, she can take care of herself but I felt the urge to respond. :)

MJ, your tactics are very TheBrethren-esque. You are a NEVERMO, so you may never fully understand how your approach triggers horrible memories of and anxiety from being bullied by Mormon leaders any more than those of us who are straight can FULLY understand the experience of being bullied by homophobes. You may not see yourself as a bully, but bullies rarely do.

You do realize this site is "Recovery from Mormonism," right? I am a big fan of the nevermo's who post here and find a lot of value in their perspectives, but what is it that you think you are contributing to those of us who are trying to recover from the harm Mormonism caused us? Any education or insights you contribute usually get lost in your inflexible demands that we see it and say it exactly as you would.

I am now and always have been, even as an active Mormon, against TSCC's bullying and viciousness towards gays and every other group they are wont to marginalize, but your approach is a total turn-off. What is your goal? To beat people into agreeing with your all-knowing, "superior," one-true-MJ-way of believing? Most of us have been there, done that with TSCC.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/28/2012 01:42PM by Surrender Dorothy.

As a member of that church, you SUPPORTED that bullying. If you paid tithing you financed that bullying.

Sorry, but the institution you believed in and supported has been bullying me and others for decades.

If you have not lived through that, then you have no idea of how LDS you sound right now.

If my honesty about all this is a problem for you, it is YOUR PROBLEM.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/28/2012 01:41PM by MJ.

You have no idea how LDS *you* sound right now.

Are you saying everyone who was born a Mormon (or converted) supported gay bashing and bullied you so now you feel justified in your bullying tactics?

Are we really having a debate about who sounds more LDS? Really?

A debate? No. A reply? Yes.

Always enjoy what you choose to focus on.

I am not responsible for the harm done to you by your old religion, PERIOD. I investigated it but NEVER supported it. You have no right to hold me accountable for what your old religion did to you. The damage done to you by that religion has nothing to do with me. You really can not expect the world to tiptoe around your feelings, your feelings are your own responsibility. That is not being LDS that is being truthful. I am in no way shape or form responsible for your damaged emotional state.

But I can hold anyone that has paid money to finance THCC's agenda responsible for financing the attacks on me by TSCC. That is FACT. You have financed enough damage done to me. I see no reason why I should have avoid frank, honest discussions because your feelings might get hurt by frank, honest discussions.

I expect no one to tiptoe, but but you expect everyone to see things exactly as you do.

While I fully understand why YOUR focus is on gay rights, others who fully support gay rights may be focusing on causes they consider just as important like women's rights and the harm being done to women and girls all over the world, such as gential mutilation and honor killings.

My point was and is that your message gets lost in your tactics. It comes up over and over. The importance of the message gets lost in the drama of your bullying tactics, and I will call out bullying where I see it, whether I agree with the core message or not.

The very first thing you did was attack me personally and aggressively. You have no moral high ground to make accusations about MY tactics.

The worst attacks I have had on this board were from nevermos, and those were intentionally hurtful. MJ debates with facts. These are two entirely different things.

Surrender Dorothy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What is your goal? To beat people into
> agreeing with your all-knowing, "superior,"
> one-true-MJ-way of believing? Most of us have been
> there, done that with TSCC.

TSCC does not defend itself with logic. It is the antithesis of logic. They appeal to authority, to emotions, and probably use every logic fallacy in the books, because they are upholding a fraud. LD$ do not stand for truth, and are an extremely successful whitewash of history, and con job. MJ does not have to resort to that.

Maybe you see someone who can defend their viewpoint with facts, and debate as some kind of authority who must be obeyed, and confuse people like that with your former "authorities" who you felt you had to obey. Personally I don't understand how you internalize someone else's assertiveness as "demands", and feel like you are being bullied to obey, but I can see how someone could have been raised to react like that.

I think instead of going on the defensive, why not ask why you feel like that, especially when the two are so different.

I agree that the worst attacks on many people here are from a particular nevermo.

One can debate with facts without resorting to bullying.

If you payed attention, BG got issue after issue FACTUALLY WRONG. It is not bullying to point out factual errors. It is bullying to use false claims the attack people.

As for "So, tell me BG, what have YOU actually done to make the world a better place?", if you actually read the thread, you would KNOW that BG had asked me that same basic question. She asked "MJ, what are YOU doing for the cause?", I was able to show that I have done a LOT of work for a single cause. I didn't limit BG to a single cause, as she did me, I gave her the freedom to list what she has done for ALL her causes. So why is it alright for HER to ask it but not me?

DOUBLE STANDARD TIME.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 07/28/2012 01:08PM by MJ.

MJ used to be much worse, but still has his tendencies of my way or the highway. He needs to learn to tolerate other views - the world does not all think like MJ.

Time to try to discredit MJ using personal attacks!

Have fun!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/28/2012 01:03PM by MJ.

This board is about recovering from mormonism.

I MJ recovering from his life as a mormon?

No, of course not. Groups constantly attacked by the LDS have every right to recover from the harm done.

Pass the popcorn.

As I've said before, "Leave it to MJ to liven up the joint!" (And that's really what happens whenever he happens to pop into a thread).

I've been on RfM for 7 years. Steve Benson and MJ scared the crap outta me for a long time and I wouldn't engage either of them for fear of being publicly massacred. But I tipped my toe in the water a couple of times on Steve's threads and he didn't bite.

Then I called out MJ (yes I did!) and we went 'round and 'round until he asked me that same question: "What have you actually done for the LGBT community?" heh. Soooooooo . . . I listed my (lengthy) creds. I think he was surprised. I'm assuming I gained his approval.

At least he hasn't bitten my head off any time in the recent past (don't start now MJ!). Honestly, MJ can come across very aggressively, but I'm betting we'd be decent friends IRL.

Back to the drama. WOOT!

;o)

Sad thing is, when you listed what you did, you gained respect from me, when I listed what I did (because someone asked me to do so), I get accused of being childish and attacked by athreehourbore.

That should clarify the difference between athreehourbore and I.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/28/2012 01:24PM by MJ.

He uses facts, and logic well, and I don't recall him resorting to personal attacks. If you cannot defend your viewpoint or feel you cannot, it does not mean the other person is a bully. It means you are losing a debate.

Several posters here have made personal attacks on me, and hurt me when I came here for support. I have never seen him make backhanded insults or intentionally hurtful comments like other posters here. MJ just debates.

This is a personality difference. Some people process information more by feeling, and others are more logic oriented.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/28/2012 01:28PM by atheist&happy:-).

When people start attacking me personally, I will indeed, from time to time, respond in kind. I will stand up and take responsibility for that.

And I will continue to do so.

The accusations by athreehourbore are simply unfounded, rely on double standards and simply are not true.

BTW, thanks for the support.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/28/2012 01:31PM by MJ.

Adding one vote for MJ here.

The presentation of facts is important. MJ does that well.

It's more important to be right than polite.

By harping on politeness some are attempting to steer the conversation away from the facts.

Having facts on our side and presenting the facts to TBMs, no matter how politely done, will often result in accusations of being rude, attacking, of being a bully...

And thanks for the support.

I don't always agree with MJ. I don't have to. However, the people here who are trying to define what this board means for everyone else need to stop.

We know it is called "Recovery from Mormonism." Good job stating the obvious. However, stop it. You don't get to define the board for other people or determine how other people use it. Neither do I. We only get to define how we use the board ourselves.

The moderators get to define how the board is used and their rules are easy to read.

If you don't like how a person posts you have some options:

1. Call them out. This provides drama, hilarity and many times a solution. I support this option. Good job athreehourbore.

2. Toughen up a bit. I also support this option.

3. Ignore them. This will make your real life much happier.

4. Try to redefine how they use this website. This is probably the least helpful option as it does nothing to help you in any way.

Just some thoughts. Carry on. :)

I pick door #3.

And don't use double standards to paint a person as something they are not.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/28/2012 01:59PM by MJ.

than I do.

But you sub and post are cheap shots.

If you disagree with MJ, just state your reasons. Some people will agree with you, others won't. That's life.

If you know anything about the lives of Lesbians and Gays, you know that sometimes we have had to fight for our lives.

I thought BadGirl's initial comment ("Nobody is 'coming for' you") was pretty offensive.

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,581675,581710#msg-581710



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/28/2012 02:04PM by munchybotaz.

It's not a secret that MJ and I are not best buds.

But in this case, I don't agree with the OP, BadGirl was being insulting and she did ask MJ a question first.

*ducks and runs from inevitable fall out*

Some of my best friends have been people that I disagree with often.

Oh I agree, my friends are people I disagree with a lot, because I care about them.

I've thought MJ can be rude and unreasonable. (That's not so bad, you should hear what I think of myself).

But, whenever I think of gay kids growing up in a world that rejects them, I understand people who fight like hell against discrimination.

I'm with MJ this time.