A friend told me we should always return hate with love. And while I agree with it I am left to wonder. Returning hate with love towards another person is (for lack of a better word) easy but how do you return love when the thing that you hate, or that hates you, is an organization like the LDS church?

I mean, if I business does you wrong, don't you have a responsibility to tell others about your experiance so that they can avoid the same fate, or at least make an informed decision about whether to go to that business?

How would Jesus deal with the LDS church?

I thought Jesus was talking about people and not organizations.

He was, but then he also threw the money changers out of the temple and rebuked them for desecrating his father's house. How was that showing love?

I think that the intuitive even in the first centuries could easily see this, as it was a common method of conveying moral and philosophical truth. Everything is read for its internal psychological significance.

The temple is your own heart, the central altar through which you access awareness of "God" or your immanent divinity. The money-changers are all your greedy, outer-self-centered thoughts, pulling you away from your core and substituting their petty commerce. Have no patience with them (those thoughts, rationalizations, self-aggrandizing dispositions)--Throw them out!

Since I don't believe Jesus was divine, I don't expect him to be perfect.He got mad. Everyone does. Besides there is a time for anger. Anger doesn't necessarily mean hatred.

Or you could think of it this way: The Mormon church is not a loving organization. It's not a hate group but what exactly would you call an organization that takes all the money it can get from it's members, regardless of their circumstances, and doesn't account for how it's spent? Then demands exact obedience and controls as much of the members' free time as they can. They make members pay (i.e. mission) to be in their service and don't allow them to think for themselves, control what they learn, lie to them to control them .... Well, you get the point.

On the other hand, warning people in danger or who are headed into danger is a loving thing. Not always appreciated, but it shows a concern for the well-being of the person in question. Trying to protect people from getting hurt, making life changing mistakes, teaching them to what they need to know - that's loving. So maybe you already are returning love for hate.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/05/2012 01:33AM by CA girl.

The only time Jesus that was ever recorded as him showing anger.... The money changers in the temple were taking away the sacred nature of worship, by cheapening it with their greed. I'd love to see Jesus braid a rope on the bretheren...they are like the money changers... greedy and a perversion.

Most of us have very negative associations around the word "no" (the result of unhealthy 'no's)--it signifies anger, refusal, lack of understanding, meanness, punishment,...and a withdrawal of love. Yet parents know that saying "no" to a child is often a way of safeguarding him or her--that is, it's the loving thing to do. So, how does one do this without creating an edge in the child which may continue for decades? By using a "healthy 'no'."

A healthy 'no' (to a particular activity or request) is enfolded in a wider unconditional "Yes!" (to the child's whole personhood). In each of us there is an "inner sanctuary," a timeless dimension where, no matter what is going on externally, we are always already OK. Coming from that, we can take helpful outer actions even if they involve strong "no's," and yet not invalidate the divine core of the other persons.

Since we are all still children to one degree or another, in different areas, this attitude can be applied to everyone. That's my practical understanding of 'returning hate with love.'
Returning hate with hate is a sure way to stay enmeshed at the same level as the hating one...or organization.

Mnemonic Wrote:
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> How would Jesus deal with the LDS church?

I think he would ignore it. I think he would ignore all churches. He wasn't big on institutions, nor authority, nor orthodoxy. I think that he would go home to the mideast, establish a base, gather followers, and teach. He would tweet his thoughts, and let people who listen to him draw their own conclusions about the institutions which carry his name.

Thank you. That was the first response that truly made sense to me.

I have struggled with this concept all my life. CA Girl has the right idea, to change the point of view, and love the other victims, or potential victims.

Someone gave me some good advice a few days ago: to have pity for the man who stole money from me and my family, while making sure justice is being served. His life as a con-man is a living hell, and his children are suffering for it. He keeps getting heart attacks, and he has no health insurance, and he desperately needs the money he steals from others. I know he will receive free medical care in prison. His other victims will feel a sense of relief, and, hopefully, there will be no future victims.

Life is a balance of good and bad. Maybe leaving a hated cult will make certain cult members angry, and the cult as a group will put sanctions on me, such as threats, gossiping, and shunning, because they hate me. There is nothing loving, here. BUT--the people I care about--who are important to me--will be happier, free of lies and exploitation and the soul-sucking depression. I am proud of us! I feel that leaving was a loving and courageous thing to do.

Jesus did not have any organized religion, nor any fancy temples, nor caste system in His heaven. Probably Jesus would do what has been done with His flock--approve of many different Christian churches, run by men, that try to do some good in their communities and in the world. Jesus would love us Mormons enough to try to free us from the wicked cult leadership, who misuse His name. I feel that Jesus loved me just as much when I was a Mormon as He does now. Beyond that, we are pretty much responsible for our own happiness.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/05/2012 02:08AM by forestpal.

Non-cooperation with evil is a moral imperative.

The Mormon church is evil, as we know.

Others do not know this because they refuse to expose themselves to the true information because it would jeopardize their comfort.

These people lose respect for themselves over time and become morally bankrupt as a result of having compromised their integrity already (so why not ....)

Jesus would immediately recognize Mormonism as a return to Old Testament values where sins are paid for by the sinner instead of accepting the atonement and sacrifice of Christ. It is a rejection of Jesus Christs birth, death and resurrection to say that the mind-numbing dull pronouncements of the modern self-appointed prophets supersede the words of Jesus, an enlightened being who paid with his life to "save" the world from the harshness of the Old Testament--repackaged as Mormonism.

Anagrammy

"Returning hate with love" is one of those things that sound nice as long as you don't think about it too much.

I, for one, would never have told the Jews in Nazi Germany that they needed to return hate with love as they were being herded into gas chambers.

I, for one, would never have told the blacks of the pre-60's south they had to love the people that were lynching blacks. I still would not tell blacks they had to love people of the KKK or other hate groups.

And I resent everyone that says I have to love The National Organization for Marriage or TSCC, or the supporters of these orgs, as they actively campaign to keep me suppressed as a second class citizen without my full rights.

Anyone that says something like "You should return hate with love" I suspect as being a total deluded air head that needs the air changed.

BTW, organizations are made up of and controlled by a thing called "PEOPLE" and reflect the views of those the control the org.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/05/2012 09:29AM by MJ.

People who tell you "you should return hate with love" are quite often the biggest crooks, liars, and backstabbers you could ever hope to never meet.

That so-called philosophy of "returning hate with love" is the biggest sucker-punch in the history of the world.

Rewarding bad behavior covers it up and tends to encourage more and progressively worse behavior.

Thanks - I think that's a great way to say it, Cheryl!