I was just told that Monson having dementia was an antimormon lie. Anyone witness or know of the truth of this?

Well, I know tBMs who discuss it openly. People have seen it.

Right. I have read many accounts of it, TBM and non-tbm

How does his lucidity impact the claims the church is true?

Because he would be one more example of having a prophet who cannon lead due to age / infirmity. What is the point of having a prophet if they are so old that they can't lead the church? If you go down that route, it would lead you to see that the need for a latter day prophet is a lie.

Plus, if it is true, it would show TBMs that the church is less than forthright about what is happening - they would fully expect to be told if the prophet has medical issues that would impact him. Of course, the leadership would want to hush it up because they wouldn't want calls for him to step down or change the unwritten order of things or know that they are not being led by a prophet.

That logic sounds like the TBM person who said it thinks anti-Mormons can't find ANYTHING ELSE about the church to attack and so are grasping at straws to prove it's false--in this case the "Prophet" isn't even sane!

I would just respond it's absurd. There are so many other problems with the church (list them,) anti-Mormons don't need to worry about the small stuff. That's just icing on the cake.

The question that should have been asked is why does TSM not have open press conferences with the media.

One would think that:

Since he is the mouthpiece of the lord, there would be NO questions that could stump him….

Would there be any better example to missionaries, or for that matter members, in sharing their gospel?

I think it is of less importance that Monsons appears heavily medicated in any video.

What is more significant is how any statement or public appearance is heavily orchestrated.

Listening to them discuss it in the comments is always fun.

"These days it is largely an open secret that Thomas Monson suffers from dementia and has been getting progressively unwell for a number of years. Its not a secret, it’s just not an announcement."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/07/2014 04:54PM by Heresy.

There will be no statements made about the health of the president of the LDS Church, in my view. If he is ill, they will continue with the counselors and others in charge.

Right. Hinckley didn't die from cancer, he died from the treatments! Even after his death they didn't want to admit to it.

I don't think these points carry sufficient weight to persuade TBMs.

If Monson has dementia then he could be constantly ill, but totally lucid when the lord needs him. The lord might decide that the prophet continues through till death regardless of illness and is okay with gaps in prophetic cover.

I don't see enough in any of the criticisms to give weight to the issue. I think most TBMs will see it as criticism that has little to support it so it's more likely to reveal the commentator as a critic.

If TSM speaks out and states some weird stuff then that will get tongues wagging. But right now the rumour isn't sufficient to mean anything imo.

Isn't it part of the 2nd anointing that one gets to live as long as they want? If not it should be since people in the old testament got to live to 900 years old (although one must wonder how accurate their calendars were)

If it is the case that an anointed one is promised to live that long, then terrible diseases such as dementia must be quite a cruel joke.

It also adds quite a spin to Hinckleys acceptance of unsuccessful treatment at age 97. Personally I think the Hinckster was scared literally sh!tless of dying.

If I recall the wording correctly, the promise is "as long as life shall be desirable." And a life you can't participate in through dementia is no sort of life at all, is it?

I have attended the funeral of at least one person I'm reasonably certain received the ordinance.

...though I was late for the open-casket viewing...

The only "evidence" I've seen is the footage from the BSA event at the conference center. He looked like he did n't know where he was for a brief moment. Of course, he then found his way to the TelePrompTer and did just fine delivering his remarks. Either way, I've heard both exmo's and TBM's suggest it. I don't think most TBM's think it's a big deal. Most are old enough to remember other "prophets" that could barely walk or speak. Monsoon appears to be doing much better than some relatively recent leaders.

In this video, he is starting to show signs...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LeM7qCD8lU

The ending just cracks me up..."peace out all!"

I bet the Church doesn't let him be unaccompanied in public anymore after this came out :)

zenmaster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In this video, he is starting to show signs...
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LeM7qCD8lU
>
> The ending just cracks me up..."peace out all!"
>
> I bet the Church doesn't let him be unaccompanied
> in public anymore after this came out :)


Whoa, I never saw this news clip. Yep, this confirms it for me. My grandma had Alzheimer's and the mannerisms are identical for the earlier manifestations. As much as I do not like TSCC, I feel sad for Monson and his family. It's a disturbingly terrible disease.

I too feel sad for him and his family...wish he could ride off into the sunset and not have to worry about his public image

He can ride off into the sunset. I'd like Boyd to ride off a cliff.

I joked with my wife the other day that Monson and Packer are engaged in a game of chicken...Packer to outlive Monson so he can be the next prophet and Monson with Packer so he can save the Church from Packer being the next prophet

Are his body men trained to stay out of camera shots or was he alone getting his shoes shined?

I thought he always had a secret service like security around.

You would think, but that was shot in 2010 and I don't think the security detail was as prevalent then...I see 3 Q12 individuals walking around town frequently like you and I

I don't think it makes much difference to most TBMs if Monson has dementia or not. I'm sure if Monson has dementia and it starts to become very obvious, TBMs will just make up a reason as to why it's happened.

I remember in the late 80s and early 90s when most Mormons knew that President Benson wasn't doing so well. Many Mormons blamed his condition on the wickedness of the members. Something like, "No new prophecies and counsel were coming forth because the members weren't adhering to the counsel that had already been given. If the members would repent and follow all the commandments, then Benson would recover and further enlighten us." Mormons are really good at coming up with an excuse for just about anything.

said that he has more than one source in the LDS COB and or hierarchy saying that Monson has some form of dementia and that if he's not reading from a script he rambles off into the weeds...as it were.

I think that's what he said. At least that's how I remember it. Uh oh...maybe I have dementia too.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/07/2014 05:01PM by badseed.

It is one thing for a church leader to have dementia regarding doctrine.

We must also remember this dude is also supreme commander of a multi national corporation that is completely filled with cut throat con men.

Money is be shoveled…no lets make that palletized…and shipped somewhere.

Should one not wonder who is running this operation? We can guess at the others with the big titles, but my guess is that we would never have heard the names of the true power and money brokers at LDS Inc, nor whom they have contracted and partnered with.

He has dementia and is being carefully managed. He is not running the church. Lots of people on the inside know this.

This is how I know it's true:

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,738687,738687

That said, I saw it, not you, so it's not how you can know it's true.

My ex brother in law is supposedly close to Holland. I've been aware of this for the 30 years he was my BIL....and he stated emphatically that on many many occasions Monson couldn't recognize those around him. They'd inject him with something just prior to addressing Gen Conf over the past few years and he'd have a burst of lucidity. Of course everyone thinks it's a miracle that he is able to speak coherently at conference, what they don't know is that when the effects of the shot wear off he couldn't spell his name in the dark, much less decide which sock to put on first.

The church has been run by the FP/12 for quite a while, it's not the direction of the president but the consensus of the board that leads to big decisions.

Precedent says if he slides too far then his counselors will relay his love at GC.