Because my DH takes the cake for P-A behaviors. What percentage can be attributed to growing up TBM?

I don't know if they are are more likely to be, but I know that in my own family (immediate & extended), all of the adult males are passive-aggressive. All of the TBMs & all of the inactives too. It's nerve racking. One time I overheard a phone conversation between two of my cousins. (I was the passenger in th vehicle.) One of my cousins was complaining about his wife who is bipolar. I really couldn't believe it. He was complaining about her being bipolar like it was her fault. Like it was something she did, like a sin. He needed to be talking to a psychiatrist about this in order to understand her condition better, not talking smack with his brother.

According to this article "It is a deliberate and masked way of expressing covert feelings of anger."

My guess is that the men (and women like me) are taught to have self control and not show anger. When you don't communicate how you really feel or you are taught not to show people how you really feel, it leads to this unhealthy way of masking it.

I can tend to be passive aggressive. I do it because I believe myself to be stifled. I allow it because I grew up to serve without question. I become resentful that I serve and am not served back, so instead of complaining, it comes out this way.

http://m.psychologytoday.com/blog/passive-aggressive-diaries/201403/7-reasons-why-people-use-passive-aggressive-behavior



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/09/2014 11:48PM by snuckafoodberry.

After decades of no Mormon input this is one aspect of Mormonism I cannot shed.

Do, without complaining, go without,others are more important than you, don't enjoy today because your reward is coming if you truly earn it, don't come out and ask for anything for yourself,you can never be truly loved for who you are only for how much you do for others.

When you are surrounded by people who were not brought up with these emotional shackles communication is on a different level. It has been hard to learn and I still find the Mormon conditioning so strong.

No matter how much love and support I get I still feel that I don't deserve it because I am less than.I am always looking for motives behind actions and suspicious that there is a hidden agenda.

Mormonism destroys trust and honest communication and replaces it with judgementalism and passive-aggression and manipulation.

This. Serve, don't expect in return, God will take care of it after death, keep serving. It is a breeding ground for resentment, and that resentment comes out in passive aggressive ways because we are figuring a way to get our needs met from other people without directly asking them for it.

Power comes when we assert ourselves. Even the smallest assertion feels good.. and honest.

I think the answer is yes, and it applies to women, too. Both sexes are taught all their lives that it is not OK to express anger and frustration, to yell, to say "NO!," to have personal boundaries, to turn down church callings, to fight with family members, to question church leaders or doctrines, or to lose patience.

Instead, members are taught to always speak in a soft voice, to avoid conflict, to accept whatever they're told to do, to not argue with others, and to pretty much never say what they're thinking (and to stop thinking anything bad or negative) and just keep smiling all the time. So that's what they do, and it comes out as passive-aggressive.

I know at least a couple of TBM women that have gone into therapy and discovered huge, unacknowledged reservoirs of rage, anger, and even hatred after years of being passive-aggressive. One of them said after a particularly intense session that she screamed swear words and threw things at her therapist; she had no idea she'd been carrying around all that rage for years.

Mormon suppression probably affects men much the same way it affects women.

Then there are people who would not have a clue how to be passive-aggressive.
I was married to one. Neither one of us played games either.

What you see is what you get -- same for both of us. Same for my kids.

I didn't notice either of those traits in members very often while a member of the LDS Church.

My ex was extremely passive-aggressive. This is a typical scenario:
Me: The chair is broken.
Him: I'll fix it.
(a couple days later)
Me: We need that broken chair fixed soon.
Him: Yes, I'll fix it.
(a few days later)
Me: Please fix that chair.
Him: OK, I will.
(a few days later)
Me: That chair...please fix it.
Him: Yes, I'll get to it.
(a week later)
Me: That chair still needs to be fixed.
Him: Yes, I'll get to that tomorrow.
(two weeks later)
Me: Please! That chair...you said you'd fix it!)
Him: Why are you such a nagging bitch?

If he had just said, "I don't want to do that, either you do it or get somebody else to," it would have made both our lives a lot easier. I learned not to expect him to do anything around the house.

OMG - Debbie, are you my husband's secret polygamist wife? Because I swear I've had almost identical conversations with my husband. And I've said a million times "If you can't do it, or don't want to do it, tell me because it needs to get done and I'm counting on you. I'd rather do it myself than have this not get done." It's taken two decades but I think most of the time, he's to the point where he feels comfortable saying "I'm too tired - I'll do it on the weekend. OK?" He has even shocked me recently by actually remembering something I asked and doing it when I'd forgotten.

That being said, there are a lot of things he swears are because of his "bad memory" and while he gets away with a lot of them, since he has ADD and I understand there are gaps in his ability to pay attention and remember what I say, there are also times where I KNOW he is doing something purposely MORE after I ask him not to do it. I think it might be subconscious passive-aggressiveness because he acts like he can't believe he did (whatever) but he might also be a better actor than I suspect.

In DH's case, his mom was a real bully who grew up in what is the definition of a white trash Utah Mormon family. Eleven kids born to a mom who married at 16 and a dad who had PTSD from WWII. How my MIL survived her childhood is beyond me but there is a lot of anger in her, a lack of parenting skills and other skills and diagnosed mental illness in several immediate family members. DH and his brother and sisters took the brunt of her issues and he never learned that it's OK to stand up for himself or how to set boundaries. He wavers between over-reacting and being too controlling and passive-aggressive stunts. But most of the time he's OK or we wouldn't still be together. Still, the flair ups make me terribly sad for what went on in that supposedly ideal eternal family.

Mormonism is steps on a ladder.

to be successful, you must be deferential to your 'seniors', and authoritative to your 'juniors' in the system.

If that doesn't lead to being p-a, I don't know what would.

My take is that people who are passive-aggressive are people who feel like they don't have any power. When you have a religion that tells you what underwear to wear, it may produce those feelings.

Excellent Observation, summer;


When a LDS PH holder is at work, chances are he has options to make some decisions, AND see the effects of them; when he functions in the church environment, Different Story.

I think Mormonism thrives on passive-aggression, don't you? Perhaps it's not so much teaching it as providing an avenue for passive-aggression to grow or something, or just plain attracts people who are like that. But even Morg's methods seem to be passive-aggressive, the whole thing of dangling a semi-doctrine out there without actually revealing any real information about it, then requiring obedience to something that is not explained while never owning the doctrine in the first place. Or having men that stand and carry on about being prophets and leaders, but then provide no guidance or anything of value. Or having a structure based only on shame and guilt. Or having a whole structure of having your temple endowment--so important in your alleged salvation--without explaining or revealing anything beforehand. All examples of embedded passive-aggression. Then along come passive-aggressive types like me who linger for years and feed off of it. Passive-aggression is my shame, and I'm trying not to but I still see myself doing it all he time. Learning not to be like that is going to be a long row to hoe.

"Mormonism thrives on passive-aggression" Couldn't agree more.


The Mormon church sticks the knife in, you wince from the pain, and then you are redressed for not accepting the knife cheerfully because it is God's pain--especially for you--and you should be grateful. Then they twist the knife. By now you know that it is your godly responsibility to profess thankfulness for the pain by showing obedience and deference. By the end, you are twisting the knife yourself.

Who would argue with the bishop? Who would stand up to the stake president? Who would disagree with a G.A.? Your feelings don't matter, they are wrong. Bottle them up. Bury them. Try to not let them show as they fester up and boil over every once in a while. But if they do show you must claim they don't exist. We must present the perfect front at all times because we are Mormon.

This is indoctrination in the Mormon Cult and it has at its foundation Passive-Aggression for both men and women. Dispensing the passive-aggressive programing is the one time the Mormon Church shows equality to both sexes. I actually noticed at least as much in women as men--especially when I was at BYU.

I still work very hard to display frustration and anger in a proper way. But often I can now. It feels good.

It is very difficult to get rid of that type of engrained behavior. It seems like it is so much easier to just sing I am a CHild of God and go about the day in denial. It's not.

OMG! You're inside my head. Fucking unbelievable. I knew there was a reason your posts catch my attention.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/10/2014 11:33PM by dissonanceresolved.

passive aggression is the result. Most mormon callings are not sincere requests - you're told what you need to do. As a result, people don't do them, show up late, don't show up.

I agree that many mormon men (and women) have this behavior. Lots of people outside mormonism as well (particularly women of a certain generation).

It's amazing that many people have learned not to be this way, are direct and own their feelings. They show up when they commit to showing up, and say no when they can't be there. My life is 100% better when I started taking responsibility for myself and discarding the passive aggressiveness - but the programming does go deep.

Contention is a sin. Any Mormon who feels any kind of opposition must express it covertly, then deny it if someone notices.

The only people who are more passive aggressive than Mormon men are Mormon TBN women, most especially my ex-wife who is training my children to be just like her.

I'm sorry about your ex and the kids.

Yes, although, it appears that both mormon men and women are more passive-aggressive than the general population.

https://www.sunstonemagazine.com/passive-aggression-among-the-latter-day-saints/



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/10/2014 03:05PM by braindead.

They attract them both and deliver both at one time: think bishop(s) interviews, leasthood, missions, belief societies, temple recommends, tithing, primary, "callings", programs, activities (or lack thereof), whale fair and councils.

I don't have much time for Mormons or their behavior. Why set yourself up for (their) failure and disappointment? There are much healthier circles out there, that deliver every time, without a fuss or a promise.

M@t

yes cause it's the only way to say no.

Mormon men are very suppressed by the church. They have to answer to someone at work and then go home to answer to someone at church. They make life decisions, like marriage and mission, out of duty, not necessarily desire. They choose careers to feed large families, not to feed their passions.

To regain some control of their lives, they resort to PA behavior. Instead of helping some poor single sister move on Saturday morning, they "forget" and do what they really want to do. Since the church tries to motivate them through guilt, they get back with PA behavior.

When it comes to exmos who learned from birth to be passive-aggressive, but who want to replace these learned patterns with healthier and more satisfying ways of dealing with life...does anyone know of practical life techniques that work?

What has anyone here either heard of---or actually done---that results in either very little, or no, residual passive-aggressiveness in their relationships and in their daily lives??

In other words: how is learned passive-aggressiveness healed and transcended...or what is the cure???



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/10/2014 04:15PM by tevai.

What helped me the most was reading a book called Co-Dependant No More. It really helped me understand the importance of saying what you mean and then, sticking with it. Don't take it back, don't ease out of it just because you have made yourself or someone else uncomfortable, and don't make excuses for what you said.

Say what you really mean in a calm, concise way and then stand by your statement. When you catch yourself saying, "Oh I'm sorry, I didn't really mean it" when you did mean it, check that.

It is actually quite hard to do after the way we were raised. The natural impulse to show anger and then apologize or take it back is strong.

+1

That book is a really good one for exmos.

There's a video somewhere on youtube (don't have the link) that shows women in situations continually saying "Sorry!" for things that they didn't cause or have responsibility for. Then they realized what they were doing and changed it to "Sorry, NOT sorry!" It made me stop and thinkl

In the interest of credibility and 'truth', I need to point out the flawed thinking in this thread. TBMs draw a conclusion about the existence of god and the church being true, and make everything they see fit that belief.

Here, we are concluding that the church causes passive-aggressive behavior and then make the evidence fit our theory.

Just because you know some passive aggressive Mormons does not mean it causes it. There are passive aggressive nonmormons.

If you wanted to determine whether Mormonism causes a higher rate of passive-aggressive behavior, you would need to do a study comparing randomly selected Mormons and nonmormons.

As for a therapist bringing out the hidden rage, I fell for that once. I was really purging the rage, and it felt really good. Then my therapist one day mentioned how successful she was, and how nice a house she had, and I realized that was where my $60 an hour was going. Then I realized that you can create anger where there was none, and string people out for years, like she was doing with other members of her group.

Another damn cult.

braindead Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, although, it appears that both mormon men and
> women are more passive-aggressive than the general
> population.
>
> https://www.sunstonemagazine.com/passive-aggressio
> n-among-the-latter-day-saints/

Wow. This thread is enlightening. So much has rung true to myself and those around me. My soon-to-be ex wife said "Sorry" like it was going out of style. ALL THE TIME. Sorry this, sorry that. I called her out on it more than once, but it's obviously too deeply ingrained to just be able to snap a finger and get rid of the habit.

And yeah, I have no clue how to say no or express anger or frustration in a healthy way. It's pretty much either say nothing or go overboard. I don't know the middle ground. I only know how to speak through actions. Words are just a means of appeasing those around me.

Basically, I'll say whatever I need to to smooth things out, but then I'll do whatever the hell I want anyway. It's scary when you realize stuff about yourself you had no clue was wrong or abnormal.