Background:
I converted when 17, the church rescued me from my Jerry Springer show family. I had some of the best friends ever in the church. They took me in literally. I went on a mission. I became a serious scripture reader and testimony bearer. Got married in the temple. Three kids. Bared a fiery testimony sometimes that touched others… etc. Held lots of callings, did service projects.

Then the spiritual market crash happened. My boss showed my an article about J. Smith's Polygamous marriages and polyandry. I tried to defend it because J. Smith was pretty special guy to me, but realized I did not know what I was talking about. So I did research... you all know the rest of that story. The internet can be either blamed or thanked…. Lol.

I tried to go to church for about five years trying to placate the honest questions I had and just keep my head down and not rock the boat. Finally, I just gave in and realized that it was madness to keep living a lie, but have built and surrounded myself with so much LDS family and friends - it seems impossible to really ever leave.

I have not gone to church for like 7 months now, and have read and researched so much that I am pretty sure that I will never go back. No longer wear garments. Don’t pray. Don’t read scriptures any more. Secretly threw out a bunch of LDS rubbish books.

I constantly feel like the home wreaker or traitor to my wife, especially on Sunday. She gets really sad and bummed out because of my “falling away.” I know she thinks one day I will come around. For Example: fast Sunday my three kids and wife fasted for me. I did not know they were doing it for me. I did not go to church or come around. It was devastating to my daughter. There was lots of crying and sadness in our home.

I instigated and built my life and family around Mormonism and now I am leaving it. People tell me that - “No matter what, I have to respect that and not make any brash moves that could leave me divorced and hated.” How do you respond to this situation?

Questions:

How do you all keep your selves from feeling guilty every hour of the day even though you know you are right?

How to live as an “apostate” surrounded by people you like who still believe – who I respect and a community that is very shall we say LDS?

How do you respond when you meet old friends or others that assume you are still strong in the church and you don’t want to disappoint them? Or say things like “haven’t seen you at church lately?”

Luckily for me the majority of my apostasy occurred when I left home for college, so my life was built around the church. But I know it can be hard to tell people that you don't believe in TSCC. to this day I still squirm around that question

"For Example: fast Sunday my three kids and wife fasted for me. I did not know they were doing it for me. I did not go to church or come around. It was devastating to my daughter. There was lots of crying and sadness in our home."

Since you have kids involved, I'll weigh in this...

You need to discuss with your kids (and your wife, but make sure she does NOT interrupt or undermine you), that you love them completely and that doing "church stuff" in your name is not needed and that you are a good (if not better) person today.

They need to understand this and that you are a loving/caring father.

Afterwards you need to TELL your wife to not denigrate, degrade, or minimize your role to your kids, since they are still going to church.

If it was just you and your wife, I just say that things will worok out (and by that I mean "work out" as in she will accept it, or not and you 2 may divorce)

With kids involved, you NEED to be proactive with them and your feelings with them. Church does not define those feelings of yours to your kids...YOU do.....

without having that affect you.

I wish I knew something that would fix all of this for you, but the truth is that Mormons have a belief set that encourages them to think less of those who leave, and makes it hard for them to see the problems with their beliefs. It not that they are bad people, it's that they have been thoroughly convinced that they are right, and not to even LOOK at any contrary evidence, and "shoot the messenger" instead.

Considering what you have said, it sounds like you are really hurting. I think you need to open a discussion with your wife about this, maybe even in counseling setting. You DESERVE to be treated better. She needs to learn to accept you as you ARE.

You have respected HER beliefs, even though you KNOW them to be in error. Has she even investigated the problems you found with the church? Respect MUST go both ways. And the kids should NEVER be told that anything THEY do (pray or fast) can affect your beliefs. That's putting responsibility where it doesn't belong. If GOD wanted you to believe, he could help you find the EVIDENCE that the church was true, instead of having so much damning information out there. They need to put it in GOD'S hands, and stop letting this tear the family up.

You deserve love and respect. It's time to start asking for it.

Hopefully, your kids and spouse learned from their fasting exerience that you cannot pray or fast away another person's right to chose.

Start scheduling some fun experiences for Sundays, or perhaps the whole weekend.
You need to interrupt the constant indoctrination process for your family that comes with their regular church attendance.

Teaching your kids critical thinking and a certain skepticism of anyone claiming to have "authority" is important.

In time perhaps your family can become cultural Mormons - chucking the cult grip and demands for Obedience, but retaining the family ties.
One can always hope.

You should have more self esteem now than you have ever had. It should be strengthened by leaving the mormon lies behind, not weakened by that.

Your family needs to see you now as a strong, independently thinking, caring person. Someone who searches for truth and is not afraid of it. That is you. That is powerful.But they do not see that because they have been taught to see you only through mormon eyes.

You have to break the spell. Talk to your kids like they are adults and get them to see you as any other person on the planet, not just as their priesthood father. Be honest. Tell them that you want an honest relationship and you want to be seen for who you are just like they do. Give them the responsibility of meeting you half way in a relationship.

Same for you wife really in my opinion.

You don't need a good defense and you don't need a good offense. You just need to show your strong sense of self.

When it sinks in for you that they are misguided you can start feeling sad for them. Then the table turns in your mind. Sometimes doing the right thing is not popular. But there are plenty of examples in history of people standing for what is the right thing at times when everyone thinks they were wrong.
You couldn't help it that it turned out to be false and that it actually matters to you.
One day at a time. Things don't always end up well but sometimes they do.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/25/2012 02:59PM by suckafoo.

My suggestion is to make sure they understand that they are NOT responsible for your spiritual well-being or eternal fate and then set aside any religious discussion for awhile.

Concentrate on courting your wife and children. Clean the house and have a favorite meal waiting for them when they get home from church with soft classical music playing in the background (make home a refuge after the stress of the 3-hour bore). Support your children in their church activities but encourage them (and your wife) to explore interests outside of church. Babysit for your wife if she wants to take a pottery class (or whatever). Send your wife flowers for no reason with a sweet note about how she is the love of your life. Plan fun family (not church related) activities - a picnic in the mountains, an at-home-read-a-thon in your jammies - be creative.

The goal is that they will realize you are the best husband and father they could ever hope for - that they are luckier to have you than their friends who have a priesthood-holding husband/father but who is an arrogant jerk.

It's tough--I'm on year two of my wife knowing about my apostasy, and the kids have heard us fight. Because of Mormonism's all-pervading nature, even simple things become tinged with blame because of my "bad decisions" (i.e., even though something may go wrong that's COMPLETELY unrelated to the church, it gets connected somehow).

I really appreciate what nomo_1 says about not letting the Church define your feelings towards your children. You love them because you are their father, not because of the Priesthood or your "eternal family" ties (which my wife still prays for, by the way), or anything else.

I still get hung up on how much I'll participate--I attend church to support the wife, but it's both a physical and metaphorical pain in the neck. I participate in Family Home Evening, but I try to make it about family, not about the church. Maybe I'm hurting my children and their future by not being more open about the whole thing, but I suppose I sort of am being held hostage by Mormondom--I feel like if I DON'T show that support for my wife, it will be over very, very soon. And that is most definitely something I don't want.

I don't pray, but if I were to pray, I would pray to non-existent-God that something earth-shattering would happen to the church that would snap my wife and family out of it. I do not have a testimony that this will happen any time soon.

I love coming on RfM to hear the scuttlebutt about the church, and I know we all get lathered up to hear what potential black mark is coming the church's way, but they are so crafty at managing the members--they will almost NEVER look at something not church approved. The will ALWAYS perceive criticism as persecution. I think I've always had niggling questions at the back of my mind, and it wasn't until I felt beat down by "sin" that I finally began to wonder if it wasn't all just a giant crock of shit. And it is. I know people often talk on the board about protesting, etc., and it was a Joseph Lied sign that made me finally look up that website--and after a whirlwind tour of the internet, I'm here daily. It's almost an addiction, but it's also a lifeline. I lived a life of secrecy and shame because of "sin", but now I live a life of secrecy as a non-believer trapped in the costume of a believer.

It's miserable, really, but I feel better knowing that it's a sham than plodding along, wondering what's wrong with me. Sorry for the word diarrhea and for ranting on your thread. I just feel like I'm something of a kindred spirit on this journey.

I know its easier said than done.

But, be the best you husband and father. Explain your self so they understand you and then don't bring it up again. Just be there, be so good that they can't have a negative opinion of you.

Just like on the movie "The Matrix" Morpheus said, "Unfortunately no one can be told what the Matrix is, you have to see it for yourself."

The same goes with the TSCC. You can't tell people what you've learned, and that what they believe is wrong. Explain yourself once to your entire family, and then BE THE BEST IN THE WORLD!

I know what you're going through, there's a lot of love and support out there for TRUTH SEEKERS like us.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/25/2012 03:14PM by taketheredpill.

When I meet others who assume I am still strong in the church (or in the morg at all), I tell them I'm taking my sixties off. I only have another couple of weeks in my sixties, but then I'll tell them I'm taking my seventies off.

So just tell them you are taking some time off. They will accept it without much discussion because they really don't want to hear anything negative you might have to say. It is enough of an explanation to get them diverted onto something else.

I hope you can resist feeling guilty. You have done nothing wrong. Even if you are getting accusing looks, you are still the same worthwhile person. It is not your responsibility and none of your doing that the morg is not what it claims to be.

A couple of thoughts:

1) You know this, but there is no reason that you should feel guilty. It's not your fault that it is not true. It just isn't. It's not your fault that it is challenging in your family - it's just reality.

2) I would have a serious discussion with your wife that using your children to reconvert you is a serious no-no. She is creating an us against you scenario and putting the kids in the middle. Kids in the middle of marriage issues is always a bad thing.

3) It helps to connect and interact with people that are in the same boat you are in. If you live somewhere that you can see real people and talk with them that is probably ideal. I get the sense you may be in Utah based on your comments that there are lots of Mormons around. Yes, that makes it hard, but the good news is it also means there are lots of us around that you can potential meet and find a connection with.

4) I totally relate to the depressed/upset wife on Sundays. It's rough, but it does seem to get better over time.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/25/2012 04:14PM by bc.

social isolation will do a number on your self esteem. I know you feel alone but I am certain you aren't the only one in your community who feels this way. Finding like minded people to talk to should help.


I am saddened that you feel so guilty when you are just trying to live with integrity. Living a lie (especially a big one) never ends well, the same feelings come out just in unplanned and usually dramatic ways. I know you don't feel it now but you've spared your family a lot by being honest.

You should talk with your wife about appropriate boundaries for your kids regarding your beliefs. She should not allow them to fast for you. You have an equally valid belief system, it is just different from theirs. They are treating you like you have freaking cancer or something. I am sure it is well meaning but it is incredibly divisive- it forces the kids to pick a side and to worry about one parent because of their conflict with the other one. That isn't cool. Family counseling (NOT WITH LDS FAMILY SERVICES obviously) may be in order to get everyone square on how to deal with the issue constructively.

The two words I always bring out: Personal Integrity

I am fairly new to this forum, but I can tell you that it has been a lifesaver. Knowing that you are not in this alone is the best therapy you can get right now. Plus, it provides a daily laugh when the rest of your life seems to have had the rug pulled out from underneath you.
I thought once that it would be easier to just go back to church and keep my mouth shut, but after doing more and more research I know that I would be living a lie and I have to be true to myself. "To Thine Own Self Be True"
Hang in there and never give up hope. My husband and I are now on the same page and neither of us will never go back to TSCC. There is too much evidence that proves its all a sham.
Be gentle and kind yourself and also to your wife and kids. They still truly believe and you can't change that until they are willing to see it for themselves. Forget everyone else - they probably aren't your true friends anyway.

Thanks for all the input... really. It is a sigh of relief to know that that are people out there that are feeling the same. You guys have no idea how good it is to hear real people think like me.

Sometimes when the timing is right I will explain to my wife in the nicest way possible issues like where are all the piles of bones from the wars or see if she really believes that polygamy is ok with her... and she just gets quiet and bows her head. I think she is praying... so I stop prodding and let it be.

I really like what taketheredpill said about the matrix... it is so true... they just don't understand until they let go and be objective.

Someday's I feel really contentious and want to just forbid my kids from going to church or get really upset and start an argument with my wife in hopes she will just give in, but I don't want her to give in because she fears me or our relationship will end... I want it to be because she knows for her self.

Our son just turned seven and I kind of put my foot down and let her know that I do not want him baptized because he is just to young to understand. He cannot even spell "Jesus Christ" how could they expect him to understand the atonement or the other facets of faith....

Anyways Thanks guys.. I really like your advice on being a good father and just showing love so they know that I am still solid and not controlled by satan or etc..

Personally, I have to say that the scars from my punitive Mormon upbringing never healed over.

Think of it this way: if Mormonism is so monstrous that it will never release you, there has to be something wrong there.

Even a halfway decent lover will let you go.

I just have to say I'm so sorry for what you're going through. The situation is unfair, and part of an orchestrated manipulation of your family that goes back long before they sucked you in. My only advice is to, perhaps, find an entirely different church family that isn't tied to boatloads of crap. They sucked you in when you were most helpless; don't blame yourself.

all the rightousness in the world, did not hold me in good favour but thrown out on my ear, as in transition of what I really wanted drug free was against the church anyway, closet queen transvestism that I rejected to this day, took my meds and drugs, rose to positions when in the church and told how much the spirit was with me. When I told them that I take meds that work like viagra that cost me my viginity, led to legal drugs and addictions, and everything good they see working in the name of stability and serving in the church peacefully was all drug related.. Off my drugs, I was or appeared to be a terrorist demonic possessed threat. I hated god for never healing me of this madness keeping his stinking mormon commandments. I figured that depressed people dont need to be dictated to by authority assholes of mormonism. It was nothing more than secret society claiming sacred but dictators from hell operating the highest and smartest level of lord lucifer, light and darkness mixed that the bible says impossible therefor the light of mormonism the bible really is saying there is no light in them. Its a false crafty light by the dark one....

now you recognize your deception, repent to yourself not to god for that god does not exist, god forbid he he...

decide to take drugs or not whatever it takes to be cool and stable and keep out of jail. to some these things lead but to me it does not.. All mhy arrests have been when off the drugs to point of madness, and in some cases the drugs would then backfire in transition to get arrested but once kick in even at the cop shop I am repentent like hell cant believe how I got there......

I stay on the drugs and I was told didnt have to go to church because I'm to fucked up, and it is in gods hands.

Mental illness flee the mormon church not welcomed brother
but didnt jesus come for the sinners and mad ones rather than for the saints. wheres the fucking healing in supression and al those extra obedient rules of man.....

No healing whatsoever in mormonism. Its a funeral palor and dead hymns to follow like a corspe to become a mormon god.
or be sucked up as some alien goggly eye or reptile intelligence thing in their sperm bank, mormons number one on their fertility list especially mormon woman who fight to the kill to avoid rape, are worthy of the aliens seed more so and have their celestial reward.

Just go mastubate not rape anyone, drugs or no drugs.
Mormonism is dangerous to fuckers like me and most people who were hyppies and ex vets.

Larry..