A few weeks ago I went up north to visit the parents and attended Sacrament meeting with my mother. Unfortunately, I planned poorly because I got stuck going to Fast and Testimony meeting - the first time in years because that was literally the first Mormon meeting I refused to attend, even if we went other Sundays. Anyhow, a woman got up and said she discovered she worked with several inactive Mormons when they came up to her and asked her if she was Mormon. She waxed poetical for a few minutes about how people recognize Mormons by their standards and watch them for their example and their light. How she was grateful for the opportunity she had to help these poor inactives she worked with and be an example to them.
It never occurred to her that the question "Are you a Mormon?" might not be a compliment. That those inactives might have pegged her as LDS because of her faded tent dress or fake smile. Maybe she had a know-it-all attitude at work, a baby voice, a poor sense of boundaries or used words like "moisture" and "tender mercies" that made her stand out as strange and different. It made me realize how many people in the church think that they are being called a Mormon is a compliment on their values and never realize that outside the church, being recognized as a Mormon isn't necessarily a positive.
In Utah you better be able to tell someone's a Mormon. Because if you're not careful that Mormon is going to screw you and if they can your family out of what you have that they want.
Perhaps it was the garmies hanging out everywhere. Or her use of silly Mormon phrases or passive aggressive references like, "You shopped on Sunday for that sundress? I don't hold such things against you."
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/14/2014 01:08PM by Cheryl.
Agreed. Just another way mormons are completely out of touch as to how they are percieved by the world.
When I peg someone as mormon, its because they come across as different, but not in a positive way. They appear a little off in some way, out of touch, a little empty on the inside, without substance and depth....and maybe that pale, goofy, happy, just got kicked in the head by a mule look.
Another identifier is when they walk in to work in the morning carring a couple one liter mountain dews and drink them for breakfast.
I've had one person say she could "tell" I was a mormon. I was still wearing my garments, I bent over to pick up a box and I got the question "Are you a mormon?" I said yes.... She said she could just tell. I knew she had seen my garments.. it was awkward lol
But what are they supposed to say? "Are you a mormon? Because I saw your special underwear...."
That is how I pick out mormons when I'm out of state. In Utah, you can tell if they don't have garments. But most places I go, if you can't see their garments in the summer, you can tell who isn't by their tank tops.
OR how they curse. Dang, dang it, flip, son of a biscuit (my daughter's). Shiz--this is the one my nonmo boyfriend hears at work a lot.
And he has learned to pick out the mormons by their passive-aggressive behaviors at work. My exmo brother says you can tell the mormons by the fact that they LIE. He is a manager at a company and says MOST of the mormons he works with lie.
It is called prejudice and we all have it towards any segments of society. Most of the time I am thrilled to meet Mormons from Utah, which is so far & between, there is so much to remember about Utah positive or negative.
I disagree. Prejudice is judging without knowing. If you know how Mormons act, what they wear, how they speak etc. well enough to spot one, that's just being observant. Put another way, if someone says they are Mormon and you assume that they have bad manners, that is prejudiced but if you see someone who has bad manners, weird underwear and is always grateful for the tender mercies, you could hazard a guess that they are Mormon. And honestly, I don't know anyone, including active Mormons, who are glad to see a random Utah Mormon so it is probably a good thing they have you. Most every else has their patience strained to the limit by them, with individual exceptions, of course.
"Prejudice is judging without knowing." This is not correct. :Stereotyping is judging without knowing, and stereotypes can be both positive and negative.
Prejudice, and lets say for example against Mormons, comes from experience.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/14/2014 05:51PM by Susan I/S.
I was thinking of prejudiced in the sense of "prejudiced against" rather than as a neutral. Because, of course, you can have a prejudice in favor of someone.
Makes me think of an incident that happened around four years ago. My children, spouses, grandchildren had all gathered for a holiday dinner, most being TBM's.
A visitor who had not been around Mormons, whose family was Catholic, had a few questions for me afterwards.
"Is that the way the conversation usually works in your family? I was so ready to put my answers on a loud speaker for all to hear at the same time, because each one of them asked the same questions, the same way."
Hmmm?
"And, don't they ever argue or talk about politics? My family lunges at each other, especially after a few drinks."
Hmmm, from me again.
"And, I was invited to the Mormon Church without them even knowing if I would care to go."
Had a guy over to the house to try to sell me a home security system. I thought that I bet this guy is LDS. He just had that LDS demeanor that can be so pushy. Then when he shifted his position I saw the garments. I asked him if he was LDS. With a surprised look he asked how I knew. I told that I had seen his garmies and he asked if I was LDS too. I told him I used to be and had I had left the church long ago. It was his behavior that had me wondering at first because he just fit the very common pattern.
Sometimes, when I fly to Vegas, I can often guess those on the flight to SLC, as the airport I fly in and out of is one of those for Disneyland, and not only do a lot of Mormons have Disney stuff for carry-on items, plus in the summer, they really stand out in their t-shirts and either capri pants, or that tiny bit of white fabric peeking out from their shorts. Sometimes, if they bend over to pick up a toddler, their shirt rides up slightly, giving a glimpse oftheir garment top.
I always regarded it as a compliment - where ever I travelled in the world - when someone said "You don't look like a Mormon!" Today I am an atheist when it comes to the Mormon religion.
I got that a lot. I'd tell people I was Mormon and they'd say "You don't seem Mormon." When I'd look puzzled at the comment, they'd assure me that they meant it as a compliment. I never really put two and two together until I left the church - well, actually until I moved to Utah when I was first married and some of the Mormons there acted so abominably that I could see why not fitting the Mormon stereotype was a compliment.
All my time in the church, I must have heard at least a dozen talks about how Mormons were admired for their character or for staying true to their religion (like when offered a drink), and how we always had to be careful to be a good example because everyone was watching us and holding us to a higher standard , that we represented the church yada yada.
It's quite amusing now looking back. It's a little arrogant and presumptuous to think everyone admired us and watched us.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/15/2014 12:52AM by twistedsister.
My mom was talking about a comparative religions class she once took where pastors from different churches, Catholic priests, a Buddhist monk, a Mormon bishop and several other local religious leaders each gave talks about their religions. She said when the Jehovah's Witness leader spoke about his beliefs all she could think was "I admire you for being devout to your beliefs but your beliefs are really crazy."
I wanted to say "Mom, that is exactly how people feel about Mormons - they say one nice thing that they know about Mormons but are thinking that your beliefs and lifestyle are really crazy. But you all focus on the one thing as unconditional admiration of all things Mormon instead of the thought pattern being exactly what you experienced with the JWs."
But that would have been the beginning of a very long, boring argument so I let it go.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/15/2014 02:05AM by CA girl.
Why can't Mormons just say, "No, thanks. Do you have any ...?" when offered a drink or coffee. They can follow up with "I'm not a coffee/alcohol drinker/fan."
But, nooooo, they have to do the big "I'm Mormon!" thing and then wait for awe and admiration.
In Utah you have to be careful of false positive tbm identification. I've seen a few people at work that are non-Utah, non-mormon, clean cut types get identified as lds by jackmo's and nevermo's. In Utah you get very accustomed to the typical pattern recognition and it's easy to get tricked.
Anyways, the tbms and exmo's had this guy pegged as non mormon first day, but jackmo's and nevermo's thought this guy was mormon for years. Story goes, this guy is left out of the Friday afternoon meet-up for drinks for two years. One day, ringleader of drink meet-up walks around inviting usuals to drink meet-up and sarcastically invites mistaken guy who then gladly accepts. Nevermo ringleaders jaw hits the floor, couldn't believe this guy was nevermo.
News flash, tssc doesn't hold a patent on clean shaven, well mannered, non swearing people.
Just goes to show, be careful judging the book by its cover. If there is any question, just politely ask.
Also, generally tbms and exmos are the best qualified to sniff out tbms.
> News flash, tssc doesn't hold a patent on clean > shaven, well mannered, non swearing people.
They don't even HAVE well-mannered people - Mormons are notorious for their poor manners and inadequate social skills. And yes, I will admit there are exceptions but when someone is misdiagnosed by non-Mormons as a Mormon, it isn't because they are clean shaven, well-mannered or non-swearing. It's usually because there is something weird, off-putting and strange about them. That's why being mistaken for a Mormon is NOT a compliment.
CA girl, I know exactly what your talking about but this situation was not that. The guy in this case was super friendly, always helped when asked and always got his work done on time, and did not carry the weirdness your talking about. He generally would shy away from discussing religion, therefore, the ringleader assumed he was in the Utah majority. This isn't conjecture, this is what I was told when the ringleader came to tell me about his jaw drop moment.
Your incite is interesting but please remember your opinion represents a data point of one. Mileage will vary by, person, place, and personality.
I see what you are saying - Mormons also have a terrible time understanding that there are as good or better people outside of their religion. My mother-in-law once said "We know all good people will one day become Mormon." At best, they think anyone nice is convert material, meant to be Mormon since the pre-existence. It's seriously messed up.
But there are trends that make Mormons stand out, like their bad manners. There are similar trends in other groups like certain states have a lot of liberals or people from another state pronounce certain words a certain way that make them stand out as being from that area of the country. There are things Mormons do that make most people recognize them as Mormons, and that's not just my opinion. What my point is, LDS people think those stereotypically Mormon things are a compliment when remarked upon whereas non-LDS people don't see "You seem like a Mormon" to be a compliment or a positive. I also realize that there are plenty of Mormons who buck the stereotypes, having lost count of the times I was told "You don't seem like a Mormon" when I was actually very active and believing.
I overheard a conversation where 2 other nonmos were talking about mormons... they said, "I get the impression mormons are nice because they're supposed to be, not just because we're human"
quite telling I thought.
Some markers for me: -the underwear -the judgemental glance when (gasp!) my shoulders are showing even though it's over 90F -the CONSTANT church talk -the passive-aggressiveness that thinks it's nice
I mistake plenty of mormons as non-mos.. usually it turns out they're not from utah or have wider experiences. They: -hide their underwear better -can hold conversations about non-church things -can use declarative sentences -talk to strangers nicely... as humans and not like you're selling something or looking for information.
I had a long phone conversation with my mom last night and she talked about church work, genealogy information, who has what callings, who her favorite bishops have been etc. almost continually. Even taking into account that she probably takes every opportunity to try to bring me back to active status in the church, it's still excessive and tedious but she doesn't even realize how narrow her interests are. Even her hobbies point back to the church - genealogy and being a prepper. I see this in a lot of women her age - the 70 plus retired crowd - who have been in the church all their lives. They have nothing else. It's ALL they talk about and all they know. It's one reason I'm so glad I got out of the church.