in social situations, like weddings or on vacations? If so, is it uncomfortable and awkward because it makes them upset? If they're okay with it now but weren't at first, how long did it take to get to that point?

A bit of backstory:

We stopped going to church 7 years ago, and waited about a year after we quit attending before we drank alcohol. Then it was still about 6 months after that before we began to keep some in our home. But whenever the TBM parents came over, we'd take it from its regular place in the fridge or cupboard and hide it downstairs so they wouldn't see it. After a couple years of this, I got tired of hiding it because after all, it is OUR home and we should be able to do what we want in it, right?!!

So we stopped hiding it, and yet they never said anything about it. Granted, they'd have to go looking to find it, but not very hard. I'm sure they've at least seen beer in the fridge. We've never actually talked to them about the subject of alcohol, and we've never drank openly in front of them. We've sensed they have "don't ask, don't tell" policy because I think it's just too painful for them to think about us drinking. Ignorance is bliss, right?! Funny enough though, none of their kids are active in the church and all of us drink socially. However, only one of us (the one who's been out the longest, and who was also ex'd btw) has ever been comfortable enough to drink openly in front of them.

The reason I'm inquiring of your opinions, however, is because we have a vacation coming up that we're all going on. It'd be nice to be able to have a glass of wine with dinner or a cocktail by the pool and not have to worry about their reactions. I find it ridiculous that we have to play this silly game with them, and as the years go by, I have less and less patience for it. If we're on vacation, or at some social function, I don't think it's unreasonable for us to be able to have a drink (I must add that we'd never, in a million years, drink at anything at their house).

But unfortunately for us, they're not reasonable people when it comes to this subject. Yet, I'm starting to realize we're actually enabling them to continue to be unreasonable about it. We've been fearful of their reactions and haven't wanted to upset them, so we've pretended just as much as they have. Well you know what? I'm getting tired of it. If it's going to upset them, and it will, that's not our problem but theirs. I'm getting to the point where I'll sacrifice some warm, fuzzy feelings from them if it means we can be who we are in front of them and not feel like we have to hide things they find "hard". I feel like they need to see more of a "this is the real world folks, deal with it" kind of attitude from us.

So we've been considering approaching them before the vacation, and finally just talking to them about it. We want to bring it out in the open, tell them we drink occasionally and that we'd like to have a few drinks on vacation. We want to ask them to please accept it as much as they can, and let us be who we are without it negatively affecting our relationship. Of course, we'll be soft, gentle, and loving in talking to them about it, but I really do think it may be time for the kid gloves we've been using with them about this for so long to finally come off.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/17/2014 06:32PM by fakempire.

If they know you no longer believe in the religion, its silly if have pretend you are following their commandments.

I'm a RM, but my Mormon family and friends know I no longer believe in the religion, so I don't shy away from drinking in front of them. I don't make a big deal about it but if the occasion arises where we feel like a drink we have one.

For example my wife's TBM grandparents came to stay with us. We took them out to dinner at our favorite Mexican restaurants where they serve really good margaritas. They bring around a cart where they make them in front of you. When they got to our table my wife and I said sure. Fortunately they are fairly open minded and they don't say anything.

I say if its your house its your rules.

I don't have any TBM family members, but I have plenty of friends who don't drink for whatever reason (some are recovering alcoholics). No, I don't drink in front of them when I have parties at my house (I also have a small house, so small parties are the norm). If I go to big parties, though, and those same friends are there, yes, I'll have a drink.

My need to drink isn't greater than my desire to make my friends feel comfortable at my house (and they've never said I couldn't drink, I just choose not to drink when I have them over).

It's kind of like when I swear, I decide if the setting is appropriate or not, and I also know who can handle my swearing or not too.

EDIT: I didn't mean for this post to be placed here. I was hoping it would be under OP's post. Oh well.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/17/2014 11:39PM by toto.

In my own home or in a neutral site, yes. At their place/event, then no. But I have been known to sneak away when I need a break from all things mormon. I have no idea if they know or suspect the reason for the disappearance.

Not all of my family are believers anymore, so I'm not the only one who ignores church "wisdom."

The first time I got together with Mormon relatives, I paid for a large lunch and since I was paying, I ordered a beer: Wicked Ale...

Ha Ha... should have been called Apostate Brew

I am in the same boat. I am >40 years old, old enough to make my own choices in life and why should I let others dictate how I feel or the choices I make because "they" may feel uncomfortable. It's their choice how they want to feel. They can either love me and be happy or not their choice. I have to listen to their BS about how they feel and the choices they make that I think are crazy and at times offensive. I just love,them anyway! That's what families do! So I no loner care if I get the evil looks when they can see my required underwear is no longer hanging out of my shorts and the smile is no loner present under my shirt. I bring my French press to the family cabin and enjoy my morning cup of Joe! If I want a beer I have one or a glass wine I order it! When they give me the crustys I just remind them Christ drank wine! Real wine! Beer saved the world! JS Drank wine and beer! BRigham Young made whiskey and beer and made a lot of money doing so! The WoW is clear: barely is GOOD for you! Medical research has now confirmed that beer wine and coffee are all good for you in moderation! So stop the guilt! That is harmful to you mental well bing! Be your self and if your family can't love you for who you are then they are not living the gospel of Christ they say they believe in! They are hipocrits! Now fly be free enjoy your vacation! Guilt free!

DH and I don't live close to any family. However, when we were on a vacation together, we had wine with dinner, and coffee in the morning. We got the look. I don't care. They can think whatever they want. They know better than to say anything. They know I can rip mormonism apart limb by limb. They don't want to witness that.

I see TBM's I know in restaurants and I always order a pint of ale and look like I'm REALLY enjoying it in front of them.

Ron Burr

In my step family, while they might think I'm nevermo, I still won't drink alcohol around the Mormons, but they're not at all offended by seeing non-members drink coffee. One reason why I don't drink alcohol around them is that it reinforces the message that non-Mormons can handle social situations without alcohol. When they're gone, I do like to have an adult beverage, especially if I've had to deal with their kids running around and screeching the entire time.

Of course in moderation and not "in their face" and not in their home, but otherwise, you shouldn't have to let your parents' beliefs in some fake church affect your behavior.

The only caveat would be if you know for sure it is going to really upset them to see you drink. I guess you don't know until you try once. Then you have to decide if your freedom of choice as an adult is worth whatever conflict/tension it may or may not cause. I guess only you can guess how they will react; it is sad that people are taught that people who have a social drink or two are somehow evil. Christ himself changed water to wine.

My house or neutral place. I am an adult. You are not responsible for their feelings.

"tell them we drink occasionally and that we'd like to have a few drinks on vacation" - might want to change that to WILL be having a few drinks. You don't have to ask their permission, you are a legal adult.

They feel free to flaunt their religion in front me, let me feel free to flaunt my own habits...

I dont really drink alcohol though.

If you were out with non-Mormons would you have a drink?

There is your answer.

If you broach the subject with your parents in advance, you will be giving them the message that what they think is more important to you than how you, as responsible adults, choose to live your own lives. Even though you plan to tell them you will be drinking no matter what, it will be perceived as your wanting to "okay it" with them first. I vote for simply having a drink or two when you feel like it during the vacation without making a big issue of of it. I understand wanting to respect parents' feelings, but it's not like you'll be drinking on their property, nor does it sound like you will be drinking to excess.

Who knows--maybe you'll even get lucky and they won't say anything. You say that they've almost certainly seen alcohol in your fridge and have never mentioned it to you, so perhaps they wouldn't react as badly as you think to actually seeing you imbibe. If they do say something, you can politely explain at that time that you have drunk alcohol moderately for years now and also store it in your home where they can easily see it (e.g. your fridge), so you had assumed they were not bothered by your drinking. At that point it will be your parents' decision whether to allow this to ruin their vacation or not.

You either draw a line in the sand where you want to, or they are going to draw it for you. Stand up for yourselves. If you don't, then you'll just prove to them that they get to be the people who make decisions for you and your family. Sounds like an awesome life, right?

As for me, I don't have any TBM family, but I do have some TBM friends. I drink in front of them.

Yes, I do.

No. It's enough that I drink Diet Coke. I'm not much of an alcohol drinker anyway.

I would, but I rarely see any of my family, other than one sister and her husband. Generally when I see them it is at their home with their kids around. I drink in front of my TBM friends. Well, the ones that stayed friends with me after I left the church.

patio party for my TBM sister, her brood and spouses, and her brood's broods, as well as my two nephews from a deceased sister, their spouses, and their broods. Fortunately we have a large back yard, and the kids could run around to their hearts' content. We pretty much took the initiative putting the thing together.

All my TBM sister's progeny are likewise TBM. The nephews and families aren't. For the first years, we ensured no alcohol was available, and pretty much everybody had a good time.

Going on two years ago, we said "fuck it," and we had beer available in a separate cooler. The nephews, spouses, and I had beers openly.

We offered to host an affair again last summer, but somehow the TBM's couldn't find a suitable date. We figured the ball is in their court, but we haven't heard a peep about a get-together this summer.

Guess-the-beer-was-a-deal-breaker-ly yrs,

S

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/17/2014 07:49PM by almost.

They trained my nephew as a 4 year old to say "Uncle A you're 'gustin" (disgusting) because I had a lager shandy at a barbecue where most people were not mormon. I now make a point to take home wine to drink at Christmas, they've got used to it. They can keep their shloers (fizzy juice popular with uk mo's).

I can't tell you what to do, but I wonder if giving them a heads up that you plan to enjoy alcohol while on vacation will enable them to make the time leading up to the vacation difficult and overly dramatic -- than if they just have to deal with it on the spot when you order something in a restaurant.

You'll have enough stuff to deal with before the vacation starts without what is likely going to turn out to be extra time and effort spent by you trying to placate and plead with them to 'understand' once they find out you plan to enjoy a drink or two in front of them (gasp). Their feelings about a normal part of life is their problem, not yours.

Don't give them the idea that you are really worried they'll be upset if you have a drink in front of them. Act as if you expect them to behave rationally - which means you leave it to them to start acting like children if you order a beer or have a glass of wine. Then you respond to them at that time.

Sometimes it helps to think of worst case scenarios and how you might respond to them. For instance, what's the worst that you think could happen if - without warning them ahead of time - you simply ordered a drink on the vacation? Think of what you believe they might say or do, and come up with responses that will establish and defend appropriate boundaries in a calm and rational tone.

Key points in establishing boundaries with irrational folks:

Don't ask permission and don't offer explanations.
"I hope you can try to understand" "I'm an adult and I should be able to make my own choices" = Both imply that you're seeking permission/approval and/or are trying to explain (justify) yourself. These will be leverage for those trying to control your behavior to manipulate you: "But I am trying to understand, it just hurts me so much..."

Exude a firm, calm attitude and neutral tone that communicates you expect all responses (if any) to be respectful.
"Mind your own business" "What's your problem" = Both will do little other than increase emotional escalation. They advertise that you have a negative opinion of the other person, which then baits them to become defensive in return.

So if this is said in a restaurant: "I wish you wouldn't drink in front of me because it's disrespectful to my religious beliefs."

Here's the reply: "No, it isn't." Then immediately but calmly change the subject to talk about something completely unrelated but likely to encourage a new direction in the conversation. This sets a boundary, offers no apology, asks for no permission and by changing the subject communicates that you expect there to be no further commentary (respect).

Move on, nothing to see here.

It won't be as bad as you think, but even if it is then it'll be healthier for you in the long run to have a little more distance in the relationship rather than constantly being fearful of what they think about your life, which is yours to live not theirs.

You can do it -- Good luck!

You don't need to ok things with the parents before you go. You're adults and you're not doing anything illegal. You're too old to ask permission. If they have a problem with it, tell them that if they're paying for your vacation they can make the rules. Otherwise you're going to have a drink.

I drink around my TBM family all the time. When they're in my house they have to respect my rules or they can leave. The last time my brother (a former bishop) was visiting he encouraged my drinking. I had wine after dinner and got a little tipsy. My brother thought I was hilarious and kept refilling my glass.

WOW ...

Living Vicariously, was he?

My positions:
I respect religious choices re: alcohol, for instance, like I would for an alcoholic, or diabetic.
I don't have alcohol in my house as I don't drink.

I follow the known rules of other people's homes when I am visiting.

My house, my rules; no alcohol, no smoking, no vulgarities -- most of the time there are kids involved an I don't approve of any of that around kids. That is not about religion, that's my personal choice for my home.

I don't see any reason to purposely ignore and disregard other people's known rules for their lives. I just don't see it as respectful and I wouldn't do it.

Life is too short to stir up trouble.

I'm a lucky man to have no TBM family members. We all boogied.

My wife (a nevermo) & I are in the wine business so my TBM family is quite aware of my alcohol consumption. I've consumed alcohol in front of my siblings & parents before at events I or a non-mo sponsored.

That said, at thier family functions such as reunions, anniversary celebrations I don't consume because it's in thier venue & honoring something special for them.

However, two of my six sisters, who are ex-mo's sneak off with wife & I at family events when the TBM's are in for the night & have had some mighty good times!

Be yourself but be repectful of others.

I didn't drink (coffee or alcohal) in front of family for years. They knew I drank it but none of us said anything. Eventually I just got sick of hiding a part of myself. One day I started eating and drinking around them like I normally did. I didn't say anything, act any differently, I just had a glass a wine with dinner. Someone tried to talk about it and I "misunderstood" and changed the subject :) I know they talked about me later but I decided to be oblivious.
I don't drink alcohal in their house, I do in mine and at restaurants. If I have a cup of coffee in the car while I'm driving and I'm not finished I have carried it in with me, because I am not going to waste food. Recently I have even gotten my TBM mother to go into a Starbucks, order a drink and just sit and chat. Of course it took several years but...

Very enlightening and interesting to hear all your opinions and advice; thank you.

My house, my rules, their house, their rules. In a restaurant or other public venue I will drink alcoholic beverages if I wish to. I remember going out to a restaurant with about 8-10 friends in Utah and I was the only one who had an alcoholic beverage at dinner. No one said a word, nor would I expect them to. Just because someone else doesn't drink doesn't mean that I need to follow their rules in a public place or in my own home. I expect other people to behave like rational adults.

Several years ago I ordered wine with my dinner at a restaurant in Salt Lake. The obviously mormon waiter made some disparaging comment about alcohol. (I can't remember what, exactly.) I got up, left the table, found the manager and raised all kinds of hell. I immediately got an apology and a new waiter.