people that have been there. Guys, I am falling down a very dark hole. My antics have started causing great concern to my friends. I am going to admitt these last two and a half months, starting at night have been one huge drunken haze.

I have no idea how I did not get arrested last night, or frankly how I am alive. Thank god for a good friend that came and found me. She sat me in her car and talked to me for a good hour, this was around 300am. I had started to sober up by this time so I do remember the conversation.

She stated that I need to get my shit together. She was not yelling but being constructive. She is a former blow junkie and understands the stuff I am going through. We talked about my depression and reasons why I hate myself. I have a hard time relating to people and never feel like they truly like me. Intellectualy I know this is false, but it does not make a lasting imprint on me. This is do to my diagnosed Disthymic Disorder.

I recieved a message from a good friend that runs a rehabilitation clinc. She has invited me down, free of charge and will keep it private. I know lots of people that have been through rehab, but it freaks me out that I should go.

Thoughts guys.

Untreated alcoholism is fatal, bub...

I got sober so long ago people think I'm a liar, but I still go to to those meetings, and I'm still alive...

You don't want to hear how many I've known who've died prematurely over the years... That figure is awful, and thank god I've still got some denial mechanisms that allow me to shut some of those nightmares out...

I'd recommend 90 AA meetings in 90 days (or an alternative secular recovery program like Life Ring; the other one, the guys who "bash AA as part of their program" are a bunch of developmentally arrested adolescents).

And forget mind farking yourself with that "Dysthymic Disorder" diagnosis... Yeah, depression is real and serious as well, but medicating it with a known depressant only makes it worse...

Here are a couple of other possible ways to begin and augment your recovery...

1) Watch as much news coverage of Charlie Sheen as you can... It might offer you a glimpse of your future...

2) Two shows, "Celebrity Rehab" and "Intervention" are also good, if a bit staged...

Those are in addition to making connections with others in recovery, however; you can't fight this disease alone...

SLC
Who usually spends a lot of time telling ex-Mormons they can safely drink,
Most can, but not all...

I am looking into the chapters in my area. I need to do something, so I don't end up like Sheen. By the way screw that guy, he is an assbag.

A bartender friend is willing to go with me. Nothing like your favorite liqour dispenser taking you to meetings.

Thanks Cabbie.

Take him up on it and go. You need to search deep for the reasons for your drinking. You must be truthful or it won't help to go. Try to stay off any drugs you don't need because you may end up dependent on them instead of drugs. Talk therapy is often very successful - if you talk and learn ways to stop being so hard on yourself. Best of luck.

Alcoholics Anonymous worked for me. Even as an atheist it worked, my higher power being no more than the passage of time. There are some here that absolutely hate AA and will not even accept that it does work for a lot of people. All I can say is what worked for me, and that was AA.

My advice, you need to do this for yourself and nobody else. Don't do it for your friend, spouse, sibling, parents or anyone else. You need to do this because you know you need to do this.

I know lots of people that go through rehab that start drinking almost as soon as they are out. They fail to develop an ongoing support group and go back to hanging with their drinking buds. So, you should also be willing to change just about anything about your life. I found that there was a lot of what I did that revolved around alcohol and getting drunk. All this needed to change.

So, I say, yeah, go to the rehab but be willing to change your lifestyle once you leave.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/14/2011 09:41AM by MJ.

Something like "the passage of time" makes more sense to me than a higher power.

Way to make it work man.

See Bush, Geo. W....

I hope I don't lay myself open to a shot on this one, but I figure I've been straight and sane long enough to have a bit of credibility... Back in the early 80's I was anything but actually sane and balanced, however. Even though I was attending college and achieving, my sober life was a roller coaster where I had to rely heavily on an ongoing support system of like-minded individuals.

To address what I said in the sub-line, a chunk of the problem in understanding what's going on is due to the reality that, when sober, many often act and appear as if there is no impairment.

Underlying this façade, though, are some serious issues (including the larger "system" of impaired/affected inviduals in the acoholic's personal circle); the "relapse dynamics" are operating whether the alcoholic is drinking or not, and the lifestyle is largely centered on getting drunk or, in the case where the episodes are more periodic, acquiring enough funds and resources for a protracted bender ("periodics" are among the more baffling victims; they can often go weeks or a month or more between benders and appear "normal" in the interim).

Recovery for an alcoholic consists of interrupting those behaviors (per Terence Gorski's model, among others), and it's not a matter of a "mentality" at all; it's a behavioral lifestyle change that includes a drastic revision of old habits and a willingness to work on abandoning the addiction-centered existence for an alternative. And the minimum "timetable" for accomplishing these changes runs around nine years, minimum.

It is not simply an "intellectual exercise" consisting of substituting one philosophy for another; the axiom is "act yourself into 'well thinking,' and not the other way 'round." Faith may or may not play a role, and it is a personal faith, not one externally imposed by dogma beyond the "don't drink, clean house, and help others" simple brand of spirituality...

Critics contend, perhaps accurately, that this only amounts to "substituting one for another," but who the hell cares in this case? Or rather should care... It keeps its members out of jails, institutions, and bars, for the most part. AA confines itself to the issue of sober recovery and abstinence, period; the Traditions--which operate as "The Law" governing groups, meetings, and service organizations--do not permit a spillover into areas deemed "outside issues."

Unfortunately, some individuals--including treatment professionals--seem to need to "re-invent a number of wheels," and I've seen actual charlatans as well who promote their own brand of "saving the victim from himself." I believe the error is thinking one can have any impact beyond delivering a message that will permit genuine "do-it-yourself salvation" (and what does it matter if God's name is evoked?). And this one only amounts to life as we know it on this planet; any hereafter is more personal philosophy stuff...

In the name of Dr. Phil (a big AA champion),



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/14/2011 08:55AM by SL Cabbie.

especially if you do go to rehab....that you foloow MJ's advice!
good luck with your new life....:)

Frankly, I know NOTHING about alcoholism. But I do know something about depression. What did keep me afloat during my worst moments was the thought of my loved ones. My mother, my children.
I find it difficult to believe that there is not at least one special person in your life whom you trust to love you. Think of the void and pain your loss would create in the life of just that one person. If you really can't think of anyone...think of the future wonderful you and of the difference you could create if you were to only allow yourself to LIVE.
Here, on this board, we do not know you, but your despair hurts us all. We wish you a happy, seine and rewarding life.

I was on celexa and lithium for quite some time. I do not enjoy recalling the altered me that those drugs did to my mind. Yes, I do have a special person and I love her very much. I am thankful that she puts up with me and my brand of crazy.

Hit my bottome in 1993 at the age of 27, went into a 60 day rehab program in Dallas, Tx and straight from there to a half way house to learn addictional coping skills for a year. Have been clean and sober since.

Something I have always remember is when i was going though intake at the rehab i was ask:

If we were standing in front of a field that was filled with cow shit and I handed you a bucket and told you that if you go over and fill the bucket with the cow shit and eat it, that would keep you clean and sober for the rest of your life......... Would you do it????

My answer was YES and he said then your ready
He explained to me that if a person answers No that he tells them to go back out, that there not ready...

To what links are you willing to go to stay clean and sober is the point to that.......are you willing to do whatever it takes???

opps just noticed that i typed the date wrong that i went into rehab, wish i was 27 in 93,lol....but anyway it was 1983 when i went into rehab



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/13/2011 07:26PM by brokenwings.

I am so tired of living my life the way I do. I am only 26 and I feel like I am over 40. The only thing that saves me is I am in remarkable shape for how I live.

To answer your question, yes I am willing to do anything. I might have to quit my career to be able to stay sober. My job entails hanging around lots of heavy boozers.

I would say probaly so. I have yet to meet anyone that has been successful in recovery that has not had to change there "people,places, and things."
Im not going to say its going to be easy, but it will be worth it.
Your still going to have problems, but alot less then when using because from experience when i was using to escape life....all i did was create even bigger problems.
My best wishes go out to you for a successful recovery.

Nobody "hangs out more" with heavy boozers than I do, at least on Friday and Saturday nights... So the conventional wisdom is don't make any major decisions for a year... And of course I'm joking about hanging out around the boozers; I don't socialize with them much, although I've even gone so far as being a "volunteer bartender" at ex-Mormon functions... But then I was over 20 years sober at the time... And I still "check my motives" and my overall emotional well-being before I go to "dicey" situations, and I try not to go alone...

Anyway, I was pretty close to your age when I got sober (having come to AA the first time at age 21 after I really only started drinking at 19). At my ten year high school reunion I was still shakey and maybe a year sober; the rest of the class that weren't Mormons had discovered booze, and I went up to get cokes for myself and my date...

Gal doing the pouring--this was at a hotel and she was the barkeep--smiled at me and I realized she was someone I recognized from meetings, and suddenly I was fine...

So keep this last episode in your mind, and truck down to a meeting (any anti-depressants you are on are okay, and don't let the f-wads in meetings who impersonate doctors tell you otherwise. You can learn cognitive/behavioral techniques for overcoming depression later if that's appropriate. I've come close in my life to wanting some a/D's, and I may yet decide on them at some point).

You'll find people you can connect with... No fun right now, I know, but if you're in Utah, maybe you can come with me and visit my brother in the locked ward if that'll give you some idea of the gravity of the situation...

My mother says Charlie Sheen reminds her of him...

No joking there...

You'll want to put the focus on your recovery for the time being...

I've been on anti-depressants for years. I got to drinking too much about 4 years ago and couldn't seem to reduce my intake. It was affecting my job performance and sure wasn't helping my depression. One of the blogs I read mentioned naltrexone. i read the book "The Sinclair Method" and asked my psychiatrist to prescribe naltrexone last July.I am now down to one to two glasses of wine a day and it is such a joy not to be handcuffed by my own desires for alcohol. You might look into this and see if it looks useful for you. Good luck!

I have been talking to friends today and they support my choice. I do appreciate their concern and I am listening to their input as well as yours. Once again thanks.
Later.

In my late teens and early 20's I had a horrible problem with drinking, binge drinking all night long whenever I could. I was so unhappy with myself, always ill, felt like I had no control over my life, and I knew I was doing stupid things while under the influence. I never did AA. I slowly brought my drinking down to once every weekend, once every other weekend, and then I finally quit altogether. Even when I was drinking every two weeks, I still hated it, but it was like I needed to do it. It was very odd.

You have to make the decision for yourself. Analyze how alcohol effects your life negatively and just cut it out. Sobriety is much better than being hungover all the time. If you are a binge drinker, you will find that out quick. :)

My aunt Mary died from alcoholism and a twenty-year addiction to Oxycontin. My husband is a recovering meth addict, clean almost 12 years now.

Take the opportunity to go to rehab. If it's being presented to you free of charge, you're so lucky. Take advantage of it. And whether you believe that AA works or not (I have personally seen it work for so many people), go and attend meetings. What you need are other people around you who can relate to what you're going through. Having a solid support system around you is paramount to your success to stay sober.

Kudos to you for being receptive to getting help. As they say, it's the first step.

Good luck on your journey, I wish you the best of luck.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/14/2011 11:23AM by GayLayAle.

Before doing something such as '90 meetings in 90 days' for the concocted 'disease' of alcoholism, you may want to read this.

http://gogorach.blogspot.com/2011/02/aa-is-american-taliban.html

Nice stable sort, but I wasn't going to reply on the site even though I'm registered with blogspot in another mild-mannered secret identity... I love this one...

>I use the name DeConstructor, or DeCon when I post, and keep personal information and history to a minimum. Security is an issue since so many in the Anti AA community have received death threats, slander campaigns, identity theft, and other assorted dirty tricks such as the vote botting of Youtube videos.

The "vote bots" on Yahoo are after him... Terrifying critters, coming right through his computer screen probably... Guy almost sounds like a TBM hollering about "wicked anti-Mo's" doesn't he? My apologies to my good friend, RFM's own "Deconstructor" for including this one, but perhaps this amounts to applying the old "imitiation is the sincerest form of flattery" paradigm...

>This is in addition to the murders, rapes, assaults, child molestations, and swindles that occur in the AA faith, generally overlooked by society and the media, that we document daily at ...

Sheesh, and I was worried about the horrible image Charlie Sheen was giving "recovering" sorts... Hmmm, Check out that pic on the side; I see the lady host of this site has a bit of an adolescent crush on Charlie... Danged lady alcoholics always seem drawn to the bad boys... Somebody should send her something current, perhaps, as a bit of "perceptual fix."

More beauts (and I was worried I might be relapsing into an "LDS Freedom Forum" binge, but there's no danger now):

>The AA faith is not. It is poorly contrived religion. It is a cult, it is a BIG business, and it is a FAILURE 95% of the time ACCORDING TO THEIR OWN INTERNAL NUMBERS. People are forced and coerced to participate and convert to the AA faith under very real threats of incarceration, termination of employment, termination or suspension of child custody, and we now have evidence of the withholding of organ transplants for failing to convert to this faulty religion.

Translating properly on that one: if it's determined medically that you're a practicing alcoholic, they'll give that kidney or liver they had set aside just especially for you to someone else... I mean there are so many organs available for transplant it's inhuman to withhold one from someone who simply wants to pickle another one...

>We are now getting to the point we have an opportunity to be a viable, motivated, organized, growing, and impossible to ignore coalition of critics. We will stop the bloodshed that continues by the recovery industry's insistence and profiting from promoting the faulty disease model of addiction, and the promotion of powerlessness, that cultivates disastrous hopelessness and despair.

I'm actually not too worried about this since they never seem to sober up long enough to do much beyond some PUI stuff... And that's not all bad; it keeps them from driving drunk...

And yep, it's about "controlled drinking" folks (which the "Sinclair Method" involves).

>Currently, the Sinclair Method in conjunction with the drug Naltrexone is by far the most effective method to treat persons who have the negative BEHAVIOR of drinking too much.

Ummmm...How did they get FDA approval with all those conspirators about?

http://www.drug-and-alcohol-rehab-info.com/addiction/index.php/naltrexone-for-alcoholism/

>Naltrexone is a drug that has been FDA –approved for the treatment of alcoholism and other addictions. It works by blocking the endorphins that are usually released when people drink or use drugs. In the US, people being treated for addictions are given daily doses of Naltrexone only if they promise to abstain from drinking. The success rate of this method is not much higher than the placebo.

But good ol' Dr. Sinclair in Finland lets them keep drinking while taking the nalxtrexone (don't try that without medical supervisions folks; twenty years ago I wrote a paper on the drug's side effects). He's claiming he's breaking the "rewards" aspect of the stimulous/response chain... Unfortunately, I know too much on that one... Google up "THIQ + alcoholism" for the lowdown on a stray liver metabolite that Dr. Sinclair apparently hadn't heard of...

Like I said above, there are people out there trying to re-invent wheels...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/14/2011 05:53PM by SL Cabbie.

I'll post more when time allows. The AA blog is FULL of holes and written by the person that expected more then what she got. Is not a cult, religion, has no profit, is not One God lead.

AA is a bunch of conformed drunks helping each other. It saved my life.

You know that special person who puts up with so much from you? She won't for long. Keep going down that road you're on, and she'll have no choice but to leave. You'll leave her no alternative, even if she loves you.

If you can't stay sober and work around boozers, quit. Better unemployed than dead.

Also, disregard advice from anon for this. That AA is a cult stuff is full of crap. My higher power is my own brain.

Poking fun at shit like this is as much fun as I'm allowed without taking my clothes off (and that one usually scares prospective partners off anyway).

I am WAAAAY late to this thread. I just wanted to say, I am a recovering heroin/oxycontin addict. I have been sober since April 2008.

The whole reason I joined the LDS Church was because in Rehab they went on and on about a Higher Power and spirituality and when I found out about the Words of Wisdom I thought being a Mormon and hanging out with Mormon friends would be a great way to help me remain sober and I really dislike AA.

What I have done to remain sober:
A) I kicked all of my drinking/drugging friends out of my life.
B)I do things. I go to the gym everyday, this weekend I went on a 3 hour mountain biking trip. Today I played Ultimate Frisbee.
C)I don't sit around and talk to people about drinking and drugs.
D)I do not watch television. I do something that requires thinking, such as various websites like this, computer games, books, I never sit and idle.

Those are the main things. 3 months in rehab helped immensely. I haven't looked back and I still have some LDS friends that I hang with because they are Sober though I have left the church, to me the fact that they are Sober is more important than the fact that they are deluded.

I agree with you that hanging out with sober people will be an immense boone. I am very much in shape for the way I live life. I run, go to the gym 4-5 times a week and I do not watch Tv. I also read constantly, I am a follower of International Relations and subscribe to several peer reviewed journals. HA, I am educated.

I do appreciate your input. Thankfully I do not do drugs, like a lot of my friends do. This has probably saved me more problems than I currently have.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/15/2011 01:43AM by dthenonreligious.

The founder, Bill W, once threatened his wife that "if you don't want me to drink, I'll start smoking again."

He built a huge following. He built a religion, sycophants and an enormous congregation. Oh, he died of emphysema because he couldn't stop smoking.

Cabbie. You have so much insight. Can you develop a plan that doesn't include Bill W (who did beat his wife)

People need to come aboard, and you understand a SHITLOAD more about alcohol than any overpaid West Hollywood therapists with the big plus that you don't seem to have power issues, just empathy.

"Get into my cab...get into my cab...." -KIDDING!!!!

If you quit using alcohol, you will start feeling better, thinking better, and making better decisions. You will also be able to better sort out what keeps your depression going. The chances of dealing with your depression are much better if you stop drinking than if you do, because, as Cabbie mentioned, alcohol is a depressant. It also just generally screws with your thinking and perception. The best strategy is to address your depression and alcohol abuse as separate issues and to deal with the alcohol first. Of course, if you are at risk of suicide, go to the ER. You should also know alcohol is very often a part of suicide.

I hope things work out for you and if your friend's program is good, take her up on it.

In my experience arguing with an AA person is like arguing with an LDS person. You cannot penetrate the minds of TBMs or TBAAs.

If AA works for you, good for you, I didn't need it to make it to my first "birthday" and I was told to my face it is impossible to stay sober without it.

Have some faith in yourself.

See my Speech #1 about black-and-white thinking as well...

And maybe Speech #3 should be about the severe judgments that are part-and-parcel to LDS culture... Probably shouldn't hit you too hard with that one since I'm still bedeviled by it a bit...

It couldn't be because you've handicapped yourself in the argument by not bringing some genuine facts along, now could it? You can even get those watching TV... Or maybe a bit of ego is lurking, and you're not like those folks at all...

No sirreee, no chance... With an attitude like yours, it's no wonder you "don't like AA."

Hey, there are folks in meetings I don't like, either, and some of those have helped me grow the most... I'm not sure I'm still a big enough pr**k to do you the same favor, but I'm in there pitching...

So the newbie goes to his sponsor and says, "The sky is purple!" And the sponsor looks at him and says, "The sky is blue. numbskull. But don't worry about that. I want you to do this, this, and this" (probably on the order of go to meetings, get a "job" as a coffee maker or cookie provider, help set up chairs, and reach out to someone else).

And if this time-tested recipe is followed, one day the newbie looks up, and danged if the sky hasn't turned blue...

A bit of a lesson in perceptual psychology courtesy of a genuine AA legend who used to operate the Skid Row mission in Los Angeles... Helped a lot of people join or rejoin the human race...

I don't want what you have, period, particularly the "my way or the highway" view... Your thinking is the epitome of the ego-centric stuff the Big Book addresses, and you're blind to the color of the sky on that one....

Now argue with that...

and I know alcohol can deplete the body of essential vitamins & minerals, etc. needed to function normally.

National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism No. 22 PH 346 October 1993
http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/aa22.htm

I mention this a lot, but people do not realize that not all seizures look like a tonic clonic (grand mal). Partial seizures often go undiagnosed for years. My depression was much more severe before I had an accurate diagnosis. Now I can avoid seizure triggers. I do not believe in psychiatric labels alone, because I believe there are REAL causes for illness. I believe it is very important to look for the actual underlying cause of depression, and I know just being sober will help you immensely. With my health problems I found that being as healthy as I can always makes life more bearable, because the last thing I want is for my life to get worse from something I did - I have enough problems from things I cannot completely control.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_partial_seizure
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1184384-overview

Congrats on the first step ........if you are fortunate enough to go into rehab, please do so. My partner is a substance abuse counselor in a Treatment facility. Their good rates of success are due to the 24/7 approach to treatment in the early days.

AA works, if you're unable to go rehab. get yourself a sponsor and be prepared for a rough, but doable road.

it's a judgment free zone.

Thanks SL Cabbie. AA did save my life and still plays a daily role in my sobriety. Be what it is Bill W was no more perfect then the next drunk but he wanted to make a difference and he had the balls to do it.

I tell anyone, give AA an honest try, work the program, make it form into your life. No one places judgment when they too are trying to change.

It beats the alternatives 1) Prison 2) swinging your feet off the end of a bed in a loonie bin. 3) Having dirt thrown on your dead face 6 feet deep.

Is make that big speech about how BYU-trained pseudo-scholars seem to have learned one debate and critical thinking technique, which is the "build-a-strawman-and-then-burn-it-down" approach...

I should number that one Speech #2. Speech #1 is about dichotomous thinking (black-and-white) and its pitfalls. You engage in a lot of that as well, and it's diagnostic of addicts-in-their-cups as well as individuals raised in religious cults. "Demonizing" Bill Wilson is an example of that one...

Okay, here we go...

>He built a huge following. He built a religion, sycophants and an enormous congregation. Oh, he died of emphysema because he couldn't stop smoking.

Bill was mostly loved and admired during his lifetime. That's all. He lived modestly off the income provided from writing the book "Alcoholics Anonymous," which he was the major author thereof... That was a bit of a come-down from his days as a high-powered New York stockbroker; he was probably the first who advocated researching firms before buying stock in the companies...

There was another co-founder, Dr. Robert H. Smith, who, with a nun, Sister Ignatia of the Sisters of Charity of St. Augustine, was instrumental in providing a primitive medical detox for alcoholics in Akron. Thousands were treated and introduced to AA in this manner. At no charge...

For a religion (it's not, BTW), AA has no high priests or permanent leaders, only revolving management at World Services (including a number of non-alcoholic trustees) and local operations that make literature available and man the telephone lines for those seeking help. And shoot, the "13th Step" is almost a rite of passage for many, and a far cry from the 7th Commandment of Judaism and Christianity.

Bill Wilson pushed for and saw the adoption in his lifetime of AA's "Twelve Traditions." His statement on that one is he felt "he had finally made AA safe, even from himself." He also made the request, "Can Dr. Bob and I join AA, too?"

An analogy with Mormonism would be if JS had written the BOM and then established Mormonism as a successful entity, he then declared he was not a prophet, just someone looking for a way to solve his problem and help others as well.

Only AA's Big Book has a better design-for-living than the BOM. No wars and nobody getting their head chopped off... It's mostly about a way of life that permits abstinence and a bit of joy, satisfaction, and usefulness... And it offers strict freedom of choice; if you say you're out, you're out...

I've shared a story I heard second-hand from an old-timer here who got sober back east about the crotchety old curmudgeon who said of Bill, "Don't you ever try to make a saint of Bill Wilson! Nobody ever had more trouble with the Steps than he did!" Okay, that might be a bit of hyperbole, but you get the picture...

The story of Bill beating his wife is a new one to me. Not that it isn't possible. We know he had affairs, and he left money in his will to provide for one of his mistresses. Unlike LDS revisionists, the only reason this story was kept under wraps was to spare Lois Wilson's feelings; she lived into her 90's and only passed away in 1988.

And so what if Bill smoked? I used to, and I can say from personal experience that stopping smoking was more difficult in many ways than stopping drinking (particularly since I was young enough to have stopped before doing truly serious damage). And many of my AA friends have not been able to quit in spite of being sober for years...

There are elements of the disease that the "boy--and girl--wonder scientists" don't have a clue about even today. And in the alcoholism field, many of them are adult children of alcoholics, and the impairment on that one often rivals the worst damage done by the most rigid of LDS upbringings.

Yeah, there are turkeys and womanizers (and women who prey on young men) in the Fellowship, but a huge chunk of them have driver's licenses today and aren't a hazard to innocent people on the road...

You've also bought into a lot of the talking points of that Trimp-guy, the one who's got so many adolescent rebellion issues he has to have a "little book" instead of a "Big Book" and can't hold meetings because AA does. And he charges around five times the going rate of the AA volume. And yet in spite of JT's "grandiose immaturity" (at least Bill knew he could get full of himself and praised his buddies when they "let the air out" for him), he seems blind to the reason he's being "disinvited" from recovery circles (including academia; I've got a firsthand report on that one from an old friend with PhD) is that his message is that obnoxious, exclusive, and utterly ignores the "facts of recovery" which include ongoing advances in knowledge of such issues as post-traumatic stress disorder.

The AA Big Book makes specific mention that consulting with a psychiatrist or other mental health caregiver is often desirable. That doesn't mean there aren't horse's whazzoos out there passing themselves off as shrinks and such...

'Nuff...

And a Cabbie note to Convert above: You "work your program, and I'll work mine." But watch out for that "Fifth Year," there Newbie; it can be a real b**ch. Might help to have someone around to talk to if your ass falls off or somebody kicks you in it so hard you bump into a wall and are walking around dizzy with a concussion and you need somebody's hand to hold so you don't hurt yourself further... Speaking metaphorically, of course... I don't even care if you go to Mormon Sunday school; they don't serve booze at ward socials... But many here think Mormonism is a drug worse than Oxy... That's a close call in my book...

I watch TV, and I even get to the mountains and occasionally do some fishing when I'm not writing or driving... I'm even a part-time father... And the AA folks I do hang around with these days don't talk about drinking and drugs; they talk about skiing and socializing and other stuff and how Joe's doing after his hospital stay...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/15/2011 03:41AM by SL Cabbie.

5th-generation born-in-the-bottle (BIB) alcoholic here, currently sober since 2002...

I agree with Cabbie on this one. Doesn't matter what Bill W. was like. What matters is: can AA help you? Experience from my family shows it can.

Experience from my family also shows that it is NOT a restrictive cult:

my father got sober 35 years ago with AA and still goes several times a week, but that didn't stop him being delighted when I returned to sobriety WITHOUT AA (although using quite a lot of its ideas). He is just delighted that I managed it.