I've thought about this a lot actually.
While it would be fun to launch into a tirade of evidence, I think people would just leave or shut off.

What would be much more effective, in my opinion, would be to talk about the spirit. Go into the fruits of the spirit, and ask of god, and burning in the bosom, etc...
Give a full on TBM-doctrinal lesson about the spirit.

Then say, "Brothers and sisters, I have memorized a hymn in the language of the Rapa Nui on Easter Island <or whatever obscure language you are convinced no one knows>. I would like to sing it for you now."

Then sing "I know that my redeemer lives" in that language.

Then say, "Brothers and sisters, can you feel that spirit? Can you? Everyone that can feel it, raise your hand. Ok, put your hands down. So we can all feel this spirit. That is the same spirit which testified to us that the church is true. That is the same spirit that testified that Joseph Smith was a prophet, and that the Book of Mormon was true! We know that the spirit cannot lie, and that it is constrained to testify of all truth. And that is why the spirit testified of my song, even though it was in a language that you could not understand. The spirit could understand it, and was constrained to testify. Even now, you can feel it, can't you?" <you'll see general nodding>

Then you pull the rug, "As you know, brothers and sisters, hymns cannot be translated directly into another language, as it has to fit the music. So we take some lyrical liberties and make a new song, so to speak. I would like to read for you the direct translation of the song I just sang-- so you can know exactly the lyrics of which the spirit was bearing testimony:

--I know that Jesus hates this church
--He'd tell you that it's all a fraud
--That leaders don't speak to him
--They've been tricked, as have all of you
--etc... (whatever lyrics you memorized)

By this point, they'd be physically escorting me out.
But if they didn't, I would follow it up with this:

"Know that your emotions are not reliable. You just felt the spirit, as did the bishopric and everyone here... and you were deceived. So too it is with Joseph Smith, the Book of Mormon, & this church. You have been deceived by your own desire to believe, which has produced this euphoric/emotional feeling you felt & you identified it with the spirit. Don't FEEL that the church is true, STUDY it, and decide for yourselves. If you would like the facts, you can talk to me."

I have done small-scale versions of this before. I have sung some of the most blasphemous things in Spanish & Italian that a person could think of, and had TBMs comment on feeling the spirit even across the boundaries of language.

It's actually very similar to this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oudWotUMWcU
But Derren Brown did it to an atheist (a much harder task than what I've proposed)

I hope everyone does see the TRUTH and get on with living instread of remaining like a bunch of sheep. Oh, and thanks a whole lot to those of you who made me feel like crap when I was going through a divorce broke as a joke and made me into the ward charity case.Instead of actually helping me, you thought "telling me what I should and should not do" was a groovy solution.

RUN!

I kind of got a chance to do this about two years before I actually left. I went in for a temple recommend and I finally confessed to the 1st councilor I didn't believe. Well, come to find out he didn't either. He really encouraged me then, NOT to leave the church but do what I felt good about. Kind of like change it from within. (I believe he told me that his wife would leave him if he left the church) Which leads me to the talk. He gave me something out of the bible to speak on. At the time I didn't have a problem talking about the new testament even though I wasn't really sure how I felt about it. What I did know was that I wanted things to be more Christlike in the church. At least the good parts of what Christ taught. I basically said how much better I would feel if we could get back to the basics of Christianity instead of the endless list of things we needed to do in the church which I went on to list. It was a long list. (as we all know) I mentioned that all of these things can make one feel depressed and not very good about themselves, which in turns makes us lose sight of our whole purpose to progress. I didn't bare my testimony about the church being true or any other over used church sayings. It felt great and more importantly people responded. I got calls and pats on the back etc. It was VERY well received. So as far as a last talk goes, I was happy with it. If I knew what I know now, then It would have been different.

I think justrobs way would be awesome as well as effective! Could you imagine!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/06/2013 02:24PM by luvcake.

Awesome! I love that you got to speak from within as a non-believer. I'm glad you found a way to do it without having to out yourself before you wanted to.

In 1967 or 68, the BoA papyri were found, and the church threw up a wall of improbable and implausible explanations for why the book didn't match the texts. I was a believer and went on my mission soon after that, but never used the entire Pearl of Great Price again. Then in the early 1990's I read something that had nothing to do with the Book of Mormon but stated that everyone in the US back then believed that the Native Americans descended from the House of Israel, and everyone back then was trying to find proof of this. That is when I knew I had been had. I never used the BoM again in any lessons or talks, and went entirely Biblical. (In time I would realize that the Bible is crap, too.) No one seemed to ever notice. Even when assigned a talk on a BoM subject, I'd resort only to the Bible. It seems odd that no one noticed, but Mormons are not known for paying attention in church, particularly since the advent of 4G wireless.

I gave a talk the second-to-last Sunday I attended church. This was the end of October 2012.

I was asked to use any talk from the recent conference (that I definitely hadn't watched, lol). I perused through the talks, trying to find something I could say over the stand without lying. I settled on a talk by Hales called "Being a more Christian Christian" and used it as an excuse to focus my talk on being truely Christ-like, and disregarded the mormony stuff. The original talk was focused on JS and how doing mormon stuff makes you more Christian. Since I still believed in Jesus 4 months ago, I felt I could talk about him without compromising my integrity (don't ask me what I believe now because honey, I have no idea). I focused on centering our lives on Christ and his example and showing him worship through our talents, thoughts, charity, and living. I even used quotes and inspiration I found from Christian ministry websites.

It was well received. I still felt like a fraud the whole time though, since I knew I just couldn't take it anymore and was soooo out of there.

Luvcake, that sounds like it was a great last talk. It probably did quite a bit of good.

If I got to give a last talk, I'd tell my Primary kids that I love them. Then I'd invite everybody over for drinks at my place immediately after sacrament meeting.

I would follow Monsons example, and let my ears do the talking.

http://youtu.be/0IxI7oL_cNw?t=1m32s

HAHAHA!!! I can't stop laughing.
Oh my. I'm crying in the middle of work!

This is an outstanding post. I've thought about this often. I think I would just be so much more authentic, rather than playing into all the 'reverent voice', emotional BS.

Jesus clearly and strongly, attacked a performace based religion. He didn't hold back any punches. Mormonism and Christianity (as taught by Jesus in the NT), have some major differences.

They may appear similar, but the reality is that they are far apart. Mormonism resembles more of a scribe and pharisee religion.

I wouldn't bother lecturing them about facts, because I know they would just dismiss it as anti-Mormon smear (and the bishop would probably just turn off the mic).

I think instead, I would give them an ethics lesson. I'd tell them that when people say "No" or ask to be left alone, they aren't testing your persistence, they want to be respected. I'd tell them that the vast majority of non-Mormons they know don't sit around thinking that there is something missing in their lives - many have beliefs that they hold just as dear as TBMs hold theirs, and most just aren't interested in religion enough to contemplate it in great detail. I'd remind them that what is important to them (going on a mission, marriage in the temple, paying tithing, being a slug on Sundays, etc) may not be important for others - that doesn't mean there is something wrong with the other person, it just means that their life is on a different path. One is not better than the other. I would encourage them to expand their capacity for service and doing good beyond the walls of their ward meeting house/spreading their beliefs, and instead see the need that exists in the world - volunteer at a food bank, help board up abandoned buildings in the inner city, organize a clothing drive for the homeless. They are capable of being a blessing to so many people - so instead of focusing their efforts on trying to win back the inactive with food and kindness, focus that energy on the needy instead. I'd point out that not all of their friends and neighbors look up to them because they are Mormon and live by a different set of standards and beliefs - this isn't personal, it's just a fact. Get over it.

Most importantly, I'd try to encourage them to put themselves in someone else's shoes. Before you call the inactive member who hasn't had any contact with the church in 10 years, ask yourself if you REALLY THINK they are sitting by their phone hoping their home teacher will call. Ask yourself how you would feel if a church you haven't gone to in years or have never been a member of sent a couple recent high school graduates to offer to teach you the truth.

I'm sure most TBMs would ignore the meat of the message I'd have for them and determine that I'm encouraging them to get more serious about missionary work, but maybe I could win over a few and show them that the hive-think of the Morg really does more to harm their reputation than build it.

...just pretend it was 1974 and bear a firm testimony to the truthfulness of the doctines that were taught in 1974.

Wow. I hadn't seen that. The guy was ballsy. Good for him. I'm glad he didn't just kowtow & leave the stand when the leader asked him to.

I am a sinner saved by grace and an evangelical mormom.

I feel like I've seen that youtube video. WHo is that guy? Anyone know. That was so brave!!!

My last talk was just a lengthy testimony in which I emphasized the Bible and testified of its truthfulness and that members should use in lessons with non-members, that the gospel of Christ was true and we are saved by grace, nothing about TSCC being true or JS being a prophet or Monson. I was congratulated by many.

The last talk I gave was on gratitude. That was about 11 years ago.

I talked about what gratitude is. I quoted some scriptures. One of them was about if you ask in faith believing you will get what you ask for, the other was about testing the scriptures to see if they're true.

In other words, pray for anything you want, if the scriptures are true, you will get it!

I knew that isn't what happens. I knew that everyone else knows that's not what happens. But I put it out there after sitting through a lesson in GD class where I was told I was sick because I was lacking in faith.

That was the first and the last time I was ever asked to speak. Nobody said anything to me. How could they? All I did was quote scripture, and tell how grateful I was to have scripture point the way to how we can all be well and prosperous while here on earth. The face some people were making at me were priceless.

I would just leave. I have nothing to say to people who don't want to know.

A couple of years ago, the ward clerk called asking my husband and me to speak in Sacrament Meeting the following Sunday. We hadn't been to church for over a year. That has puzzled me--why would we be asked to speak? Maybe they were desperate to get assigned speakers. Whatever the reason--it was weird.

I would continue on with the talk I gave in 1967 after returning from Ricks College. Except this time I'd talk about the case of beer I smuggled down in my luggage after Christmas break, on how being forced to take a religion class sucked, how stifling the LDS 24/7 atmosphere was, on never attending church, how the Honor Council were a bunch of wanna be Nazi's and how all the girls had been instructed by their mothers to seek out and marry an RM ASAP (to the exclusion of all other male students) and start breeding....

Ron Burr

I was just thinking about people being kicked out of Mormon universities for honor code shit. In the temple one learns it was Satan's plan to 'force all mankind to heaven'. So one is forced to tow the line with an honor code, or have their asses kicked out.

i had the chance to speak in sacrament meeting back in 1996, right after we had been sealed in the temple, and shortly after we left the church.

it was in heber city utah, i talked about why we had not been to church lately because i knew everyone was wondering, especially after we were just sealed in the temple to our little family, i talked about how i didn't feel right about getting caught up in the things that to me seemed like nothing to do with jesus, and i made comments about how i wanted to center on gods love only, bringing jesus christ back into church, instead of all the endless duties that distanced us from that,

the reaction was blank stares, they did not understand the point i was trying to make, they just didn't get it- i told them i could go to god in my closet, or talk to him/her in my car, that i actually felt closer to god at home and doing my own thing then at church.

that was one of the last sacrament meetings i ever went to, and the ward members back then had no idea what i was even talking about.