I haven't probably been keeping up on this like I should so can any one tell me what is going on with John Dehlin and his court of love stuff? Just very curious.

John Dehlin has had a chance to do some vacationing with his family. He visited New York and a couple other places. Saw many sites, took many photos (some are on his FB page).

He has still been posting on his website and also FB, and working as usual doing excellent interviews / podcasts.

Recently in early August John has had 2 interviews with his Stake President. It is being considered whether or not to convene a disciplinary council on him. It is taking them awhile to decide, but John thinks he will know the answer very soon now. Also, John has been reading this board and posting occasionally...

Famous BoM battle sites in upstate New York?

Wouldn't be FHE without it.

He's showing us the way to play nice with our Mormon superiors.

Give them their process, let them do unto us what they must.

I do wish him well, even though it makes little sense to me. He does have conversations that are valuable that I could not have having taken my positions.

I'm basically just waiting to hear back from my stake president. My guess is that I'll be receiving a notice for a disciplinary council within the next week or so.

Good luck John. You have my support whatever your ultimate goals are. I know that in my ward (outside of Utah) there are several other members who support you.

I'm a fan, John. What you have done with Mormon Stories is wonderful. You've documented all sorts of things that have great historical, intellectual and emotional value. I also respect your commitment to individualism, your determination to let people choose their own paths. That is not always a popular stance either with binary Mormons or binary ex-Mormons.

More to the point here, I think you have handled the discipline process wisely. You've assumed a defiantly honest position, one that is reasonable and respected by many, many people. Leaving it to the church to excommunicate you rather than resigning is perfect. If they have no room for you, someone who wants to remain in the church while continuing to act and speak honestly and while doing considerable public service, then lots of people will conclude that the church has no room for them.

Resigning would take the pressure off of them. If they want you out, make them take the heat. They will look terrible.

Good luck. I hope this works out however you want it to.

I agree that JD is "someone who wants to remain in the church," but only in a formal, technical sense. As I understand it, he has asked for no contact with his ward. That's fine, but it clearly defines his real feelings about the church. I suspect that his wife feels the same way, so he doesn't have to pretend to believe.

I believe that JD wants to remain a member to maintain his influence in bringing people out of the cult. It's a pragmatic decision, and we can evaluate it on its own merits. We don't need to romanticize his position, which in any case appears to be evolving and quite different from what it was even a couple of years ago.

Thanks so much, Lot's wife. This feels right to me.

What happened? There has been a lot of talk so I don't know what is rumor or real? Are you an ex-member of LDS Incorporated?

Still a member, but I'm predicting that I'll be summoned to a court in January or February.

Is that what you're saving episode 500 for?

I'm getting very curious to see #500

Looking forward to episode #500.

I am just at a creative freeze/block for episode 500. That's all it is. I've created like 4 different things for it, but keep feeling like "it's not good enough." Frustrating.

It doesn't get any more compelling than Tom Phillips. I don't know how many in your audience actually heard the interview.

Couldn't you post it as #500 as you walk in for your disciplinary council?

Or, make #500 a Trifecta -- 3 interviews - Tom Phillips, a past Prophet's Grandson, and, why not throw in Tal Bachman?

John...from listening to some of your podcasts, it's obvious (to me, at least) that you know that the LDS Church is fraudulent. So why would you even want to be associated with a lying organization?

I'm still a member, but I no longer believe or attend.

...that you won't dignify it by showing up to it. Let them "try" you and excommunicate you in absentia, to show the world that LDS "disciplinary councils" are kangaroo courts.

When my local stake president me a notice to appear at a "disciplinary council"---several months AFTER I had sent him a letter of resignation for our entire family---the SP told my wife in a phone conversation that I "didn't even have to go" to the meeting. Meaning, the SP had already decided to ex me, so my showing up to the meeting would have only been a formality. He really didn't want me to show up, because he didn't want to conduct a fair hearing in which I would be there to defend myself or voice any "anti-Mormon" verbiage.

So my response to the SP's notice was to call the church's membership department in SLC to tell them that we had already sent the SP a resignation letter, and to complain that the SP had improperly held onto it for several months and had THEN sent me the notice of the church court. The guy at the membership department apologized profusely and told me that he would call the SP and instruct him to send in our resignation letter immediately, which he did.

So I not only foiled the SP's plan to hold the court, I made him look like a fool to his fellow stake officers and the SLC membership department.

Recently had a family event which managed to surface strong feelings for me concerning the indoctrination that children can be and are exposed to in the Church-Cult.

At this point I decided to watch a documentary on Youtube of Hitler youth with a former member telling his true story. Why do this? I was looking for more first-hand information of how indoctrination makes young people feel. The child's father had served in WW1, and he knew first hand the devastation of war. He tried to give as much useful information to his son as he could in the position he found hemself.....he did not want his son in this group. But what were his choices as a very poor person dependent on providing for his family employed in a German factory?

My main reason for sharing this is that I want to thank you. John, for the courage and fortitude you've show in airing mormon stories. I have learned much from them, and grown in understanding just as I did from watching the video on Hitler youth.

My experiences with the Church-Cult were certainly not yours nor the people you have interviewed, but having lived my life in Utah, the Church has been central, and not always pleasant, in my journey. Your journey and the many journeys you have shared have widened my view and helped me try to understand and not jump to quick conclusions.

I wish you peace, joy and discovery in your life with those you love, now and in the future.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/22/2014 03:25PM by presleynfactsrock.

I just watched a 5-part Hitler youth documentary, (recently prompted by a Trib poster suggestion, I think). So in it, the youth are singing, "And not one of us is a coward or loses heart or gets tired or doubts the way led by a beating drum."

Scary familiar.

John,

Big fan here. I understand you need to do what you need to do, just as the church leadership will do what it wants.. But objectively, mormon stories will have a greater influence if you were not excommunicated.

I see those hard-liners who criticize you and I do not understand them.

> But objectively, mormon stories will have a greater influence
> if you were not excommunicated.

Totally agree. If you can, hang in there at least for that reason. But of course there may be a line drawn in the sand for JD... "If you want to remain a member, then stop Mormon Stories".

And of course, you probably have to think of yourself and your family first :)

I was told recently that the court will likely be called in January or February.

I hope you are feeling support and consideration during this process. It is such an unusual situation to witness, but for me you come from a genuine place and it is awkward to see it unfold in public.

Best. I don't know if this is a relief or distress, probably both, but Mormonism should treat its members well. Starting with being forthcoming and genuine. Choosing to be Mormon after getting the CarFax, that's a story.

If they do give you notice that you are being hauled in, I would love to see you tell them that you will be there and will be bringing the media and expect that the SP will be so kind as to allow them to attend and take notes, pictures, recordings of the proceedings etc. Just like in regular court.

As Hinckley once said "we have nothing to hide."

Hi John.

I have never been a Mormon.
Just wondering if you actually believe the church doctrine to be true?
Thank you.

No. I no longer believe in the LDS church truth claims.

I guess I'm out of touch...when I read the title of the thread, I thought it was going to be about Rockefeller...like maybe he came back or worse, dead-dunked...

If they do call you in for a 'Quart o' Luv' can you record it and post it on Mormonstories.com for posterity?

I guess it's a bit inane to put up a message that just basically says, "me too," but I'm doing it anyway.

John, when I was first learning the truth about the church I came across your interview with a family that had left. I was able to relate to it because they still "looked Mormon" and were reasonable people. It wasn't like watching a virulent anti-Mormon, which would have scared me off. John, you also come across as very open and accepting and honest. You have not sided either with or against your guests, whether they are active LDS or post-Mos. I appreciate the balance you bring, leaving it up to the viewer to make up their own mind.

Since I have left the church, and feel that I made the right decision by doing so, I hope that you and your family will also leave. But, realistically, I know that your private life is just that, and you and your wife need to decide what's best for you.

So, my appreciation, thanks and best wishes go to you.

Oh, yes, I'm curious about episode 500 too!

None of us attend now.

John,

Nothing -- and no one -- ever comes between you and God.

You know who you are, and God knows who you are. That's all that will ever matter -- EVER!

When people or institutions try to come between you and your maker (whomever you feel your maker is), someone is trying to replace God with themselves in your life. That's a poor, and impossible, exchange.

Anything they try to do will define them, not you.

John,
The interviews with:
D. Michael Quinn
SWK's youngest son
Benji Schwimmer
The CES couple that resigned

These are among my favorites. Thank you for those.
Very best of wishes,
-An old white Lamanite named Zelph

Thanks, misterzelph! I loved those too!!!