I just wanted to make this point again.

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2008/04/faith-and-the-oath-and-covenant-of-the-priesthood?lang=eng
“Therefore, all those who receive the priesthood, receive this oath and covenant of my Father, which he cannot break, neither can it be moved.

“But whoso breaketh this covenant after he hath received it, and altogether turneth therefrom, shall not have forgiveness of sins in this world nor in the world to come.

I would hope this could become a short topic.

Like someone pointed out in my earlier post - people talk about denying The Holy Ghost but they never mention that forgiveness from God in Mormon afterlife is not available to Mormon men who do not keep "The Oath and The Covenant of The Priesthood." Women can be forgiven but ordained men cannot.

I am one of these men. If I die unrepentant and I am almost 100 percent sure I will (if I don't get dementia or some other condition where I am not in my right mind), I will not have a chance for exaltation in Mormonism. I can't have my blessings "reinstated" like John D. Lee or anything of the sort.

I am worse than a murder who led a massacre in Mormonism.

You do not have to wait till you are 100 to be out of your mind.
The good news is you are already there. You should read a little of Your hero Brigham Youngs teachings and you will find a whole lot more unforgivable sins.
Fortunately not only have I changed religions but I also changed to a kinder more loving God.

Patrick Wrote:
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> You do not have to wait till you are 100 to be out
> of your mind.
> The good news is you are already there.

Gee, that is good to know. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

> You should
> read a little of Your hero Brigham Youngs
> teachings and you will find a whole lot more
> unforgivable sins.

Got any examples? Oh, he is my ancestor but most definitely NOT my hero.

> Fortunately not only have I changed religions but
> I also changed to a kinder more loving God.

Is that like changing clothing? Ditching garments for better underwear?

For some reason I am not too worried.

Me neither, but it is nice to know that I can definitely tell the Mormons around me that there is no saving me.

Patrick Wrote:
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> You should
> read a little of Your hero Brigham Young's
> teachings and you will find a whole lot more
> unforgivable sins.

Yes, and there's no blood-atonement currently available to atone
for those sins, so more people are eternally screwed today than
in the past.

So, it appears that "the priesthood" is of the Melchezidek, garment wearing variety...a lowly adult Aaronic dude like myself don't have to worry, amiright?

I look the carbon challenge instead. It means I try and limit my carbon footprint. It will do a lot more for the world (and me personally) that the oath of the p-hood.

Thanks, Elder! But none of this matters. What Horny Joe and the rest of the Morg say doesn't apply. The ranting of a sociopathic pediphile are not binding on anyone. Boner.

BYUboner Wrote:
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> What
> Horny Joe and the rest of the Morg say doesn't
> apply.

And what Joe has said hasn't mattered for a long time. Just look at how many sections of The Doctrine and Covenants are not applicable today.

This is supposedly the repository of "modern revelation" and it is out of date. There is a huge sign that "The Restoration" failed - epically.

That's something that was a "red flag" that I put on the shelf
(to mix metaphors).

Back in the early days, God, Himself is giving verbatim
revelations on all kinds of minutia--where some specific
individual is supposed to go etc.

Nowadays we don't get any such revelations on anything. The
whole "Blacks and the Priesthood" thing dragged on for 126 years
with Prophets, Seers and Revelators preaching all kinds of ugly,
racist crap and blaming it on God. Interesting that God didn't
see fit to mention anything about that to any of the "prophets"
during that 126 year period and after but only came forth in an
unsigned essay less than a year ago.

Even the "revelation" that supposedly changed the "policy"
didn't come with the actual words of God, just a good feeling
that SWK and the other had after praying themselves into a
frenzy.

Supposedly God leads the Church. But the leaders can't point
to any actual examples of this.

Excellent!!

Nothing ever said to me in PM or SS or SM or ANY other church meeting ever made any sense to me, all of it just a load of steaming horse$hit...and I never followed the cults stupid fucking rules...just not wired that way...and no Mormon has any power over me...plus I'm fearless and don't care.

Ron Burr

Like BYUboner said, most of what Smith said back then has very little to do with how Mormons approach their religion today. Most Mormons believe that we'll be forgiven if we repent.

Was this part of your belief system as a Mormon?

snb Wrote:
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> Was this part of your belief system as a Mormon?

All the Mormons I know personally believe that I can be forgiven. They believe that because I had all my "work" done as a living person that I am better off than a dead one.

What they don't understand is that Joseph Smith had it "revealed" to him that I cannot be forgiven in this life or the next.

I assume this is because with things like polygamy et al., the current "prophet" is a living relic who can override anything any previous "prophet" had revealed to them.

It shows Mormonism has "evolved" (<-my FIL's term) to the point of being totally irrelevant doctrinally. It is simply a cult worshiping the leader through a doublespeak concept of "continuing revelation."

I accepted a priesthood when I was 19 (yes, late by their standards) that I thought was much more than "home teaching" and had nothing at all to do with "the garment of the priesthood." That's just ad hoc nonsense that Smith and Young added in order to seduce the women and control the men. The actual descriptions of the Priesthood in the New Testament, the Book of Mormon, and the Doctrine and Covenants I found to be quite inspiring, at least while I believed in the divine origins of the church.

I would just turn it back on the TBM's and say that if you haven't been forgiven of all your sins, then you're not worthy to do all the work that they want you to do. Forgiveness should logically come before priesthood power, not after it.

so who is supposed to do all this "forgiving" ?

Good question. The verse doesn't mention God. In practice, it just means that the church leaders wont forgive you for leaving the club. They'll never let you back in! So there!

Clearly, this verse is due for revision and/or clairification!

It's just like any used car salesman will tell you. "This deal is available today only". No one should buy in to this kind of brainwashing crap. If there is a god, he is not a mormon. There is nothing that needs to be forgiven.

Outer Darkness, here we go!

I wish TSCC would keep teaching it's dark secrets. This would be a fun one to ask Tommy. Too bad he doesn't do interviews.

Exactly! How about a GC talk titled, "Please, Come Back. We Love You and Don't want You to NEVER EVER Be forgiven FOREVER."

I'm screwed

To reiterate, I am not asking for forgiveness.

Leaving TSCC and ditching their guilt was the best thing I ever did. Why would I want forgiveness for that?

If I ever went back to a bishop to confess my sins, I wouldn't be confessing; I'd be bragging.

I guess I'll be the bigger man and forgive God. Just don't ask me to believe in him.

Love it. I forgive you God for putting me through this test of life that if Mormon requires me to be blindly obedient to my leaders and doesn't address my inner development as a person but as a bee in a hive.

Moroni's promise was one of damnation and personally damaging in its being coupled with temple covenants, secret words and handshakes and a lot of faith in a priesthood of middlemen.