I have a friend who's parents are about to move out of the country to another very poor and dangerous country, just to do temple work all day every day in the native tongue of that country. (Served earlier mission there). It's not a calling, it's a life "dream," so they get to pay for it all themselves. I guess to each his own, but I cannot believe they are wasting such precious time with the kids and grandkids (who adore them) to go do something so ridiculous on so many levels. If my parents did that I'd be hurt and pissed.

Can't they see that these activities draw wealth out of families? I think it's the height of selfishness and self-aggrandizement to leave the grand children and run odd international errands for the church.

Scoring points for the after life....It is selfish.

That's one thing I never looked forward to was retirement in the church. My in laws recently served a mission and it got me thinking, I really hated my mission and I really didn't wanna do another one. Glad I'll never have the opportunity.

My in laws will be going on a mission. Even though they are too poor to spend any money doing things with their grand kids. Stellar people I tell you.

Well, people are allowed to do whatever makes them happy during the last years of their life. If living in another country is a dream of theirs, that's their choice.

The concequences are that they will lose contact with their family members unless they specifically plan to keep it up.

Whether it's church related or they just wanted to always live their it's their life.

No kidding. But it's still a crappy decision to put the church over family.

karin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, people are allowed to do whatever makes them
> happy during the last years of their life. If
> living in another country is a dream of theirs,
> that's their choice.
>
> The concequences are that they will lose contact
> with their family members unless they specifically
> plan to keep it up.
>
> Whether it's church related or they just wanted to
> always live their it's their life.

Besides the Scientologist, no other large religion bankrupts their senior members and encourages them to put family last.

They aren't doing it because it will make them happy, they are doing it because they are brainwashed and belong to a cult.

I have a feeling my parents will be doing this soon. They have already sold everything and are moving to St. George. It's the next logical TBM retiree step (i.e. expectation)

From the viewpoint of a long time grand parent, I have a LIFE. It is not just about the kids (adults) and grand kids. In my case, all but one lives many miles or states away.

If I want to take on a project in some other area, and be out of touch for some of the time, I would do it if it was my "dream." It could be a trip, some volunteer service someplace, a study course in another country, or many other things. I would be surprised if my family didn't support me.

In Mormon culture, seniors often spend some time doing some kind of service for the church (which they love). It may be a duty or a dream, but it is their choice and in most cases, it's supported by their family. Sometimes, a family member will take care of their home, or other things in their absence.

I'm all for folks (grand parents ) doing what they want, no matter their age. If their health holds up, why not?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/08/2013 10:18PM by SusieQ#1.

SusieQ#1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> From the viewpoint of a long time grand parent, I
> have a LIFE. It is not just about the kids
> (adults) and grand kids. In my case, all but one
> lives many miles or states away.
>
> If I want to take on a project in some other area,
> and be out of touch for some of the time, I would
> do it if it was my "dream." It could be a trip,
> some volunteer service someplace, a study course
> in another country, or many other things. I would
> be surprised if my family didn't support me.
>
> In Mormon culture, seniors often spend some time
> doing some kind of service for the church (which
> they love). It may be a duty or a dream, but it is
> their choice and in most cases, it's supported by
> their family. Sometimes, a family member will take
> care of their home, or other things in their
> absence.
>
> I'm all for folks (grand parents ) doing what they
> want, no matter their age. If their health holds
> up, why not?

I must say that I don't know ANY grandparents who would or have chosen to leave their grandchildren by choice...maybe once in a while to go on a trip but NOT like the cases with TBM's. All the grandparents I know do everything they can to stay close to their grandkids..even to the point of selling up and moving near them.

just sayin'

I can understand this choice by older Mormons: this is LDS Religious Culture. Grand parents don't leave their grand children forever. They don't abandon them. They set the example. That is their view.
They take an appointment to serve how they wish.
They are able to keep in touch with family. The bond with grand children, for instance, is not just about being in their lives on a daily basis. I don't see my grand children much as they all love so far away. Too far to visit regularly.

I come from a long line of Christian ministers and missionaries. They lived in South America and Europe and many parts of the United States. They didn't always live by their children or grand children even when not serving.

It's the parents responsibility to take care of their children, not the grandparents. (Unless it's sorely needed, for some reason.)

I have worked with the elderly, they often don't have family around that take an interest in caring for them or visiting much, often because they don't live in the area.

Not everyone is cut out to be a parent (some people don't want kids), or a grand parent (some are very distant and uncaring), or able to take care of elderly ill relatives. It is not something everyone can do.

Some grand parents don't have a strong need to be in their children, grand children's lives on a daily basis either.

More importantly, grand parents have lives of their own. They are not often going to be available to be in their grand children's lives on a daily basis. If their health permits, they may be able to travel, and go to distant lands and be out of touch for days, weeks, months. It's their life, their "Bucket List" they are filling.

If I was still LDS and decided to serve a mission (for some duration-many are for 6 months only) it would be most likely that would be applauded by the family and accepted, with offers to help take care of things until they get back: the home, cars, etc.

Maybe I'm not saying this very well, but grand parents, in my view, are free to live their lives as they see fit, in any kind of way they choose and in no way does that discount their grand children.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2013 01:26PM by SusieQ#1.

Yes, I agree.

BUT - are they making a free choice of their "dream" or might watching the same movie over and over be the dream of a greedy corporation?

Senior missions help the church in so many ways, not the least of them is to continue to step between parents/grandparents and their children as being the most important thing. Otherwise, grandparents might not leave their estates to LDS, Inc. They might leave them to their children or grandchildren.

We can't be having that, now can we?

In other words, grandparents are "free to choose" but I don't believe that temple dream could possibly be the result of free choice. I love the movie "Zeitgeist." Do I want to watch it over and over and over or did somebody tell me it would pay for my sins or give me points in heaven.

Big difference. IMO


Anagrammy



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2013 04:19PM by anagrammy.

These parents give up relationships with children and grandchildren and that is their choice. My question, what happens if and when they need constant care (say in their 80's or 90's)? Will they have enough money for long term care? Will their children or grandchildren willingly take care of them? Because, the church certainly won't.

I recently spent some time in a Utah nursing home chalk full of abandoned and widowed TBM's. Not very many regular family visits. Lots of temple pics on the wall. I'm not saying every TBM ends up this way, but there are def ones that do. Nothing left to take care of them but their memory of TSCC. It was an extremely sad environment that I will never forget.

Tupperwhere, does the church do anything for these members, like have a service for them? Visit them or take them to church? Just wondering.

not that I know of. One of the patients I spent time with had a giant greeting card from his ward. It was actually really sweet. It had pictures of the ward members because he used to be a bishop. And it said something like "Dear Brother XXXX, we love you very much!" and then they had pasted memories of him and how he had "served."

I thought that was really nice and sweet actually. I could tell that he treasured it greatly because of where he placed it in his room. However, when I looked closer I noticed that it was dated from 2004.

dk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tupperwhere, does the church do anything for these
> members, like have a service for them? Visit them
> or take them to church? Just wondering.

When my mom was in a nursing home, her VTs and HTs visited her regularly every month. Even though she didn't remember who they were or why they were there, she enjoyed having visitors other than my dad and me.

These were wonderful, loving people who had known my mom for years. I suspect their devotion stemmed from thsir inherent kindness, rather than from a LD$ directive

I hope he got some love from people like that. The person I was working with loved him. He even gave me (a total stranger) a gift that day. He has been making art to keep himself busy and he gave me one of his art projects which I have at home now. I will never forget him because of that. From the looks of his room though, I don't think he gets many visitors anymore. He got sick when he was 84 and he's now 90. He may have HT though, I really don't know. What I do know is that the people in the facility that work with him love him very much.

Baby boomers had better be prepared for old age, in all ways, as the trend in society nowadays is to put them out to pasture to fend for themselves. I would live like a total pauper if I had only S.S. As it is, I'm helping a couple of my grown children who are struggling. My grand-children will be facing an even harder uphill battle financially.

I think that's a good point, that the church won't love them back. It won't hug them or care for them when they are old. It won't invite them over for Christmas or send them a birthday card.

It's fine to go off and do your own thing, but not to the exclusion of spending time with your loved ones for months or years on end.

Some people can't handle being grandparents. It makes you wonder what kind of parents they were.

--One Who Knows

I think its exactly this kind of selfishness that really degrades our society. It seems, in America at least, to be socially acceptable to be completely selfish once you reach a certain age and I have never understood it. Of course its each of our "right" to abandon those we love for any reason we wish or to blow our money on any idiotic flight of fancy we choose. That doesn't make it ok. Having no relationship with your grand kids, leaving your family nothing financially when you die just so you can party or tour the world or prop up a cult shouldn't be acceptable just because you are about to become a proud user of Depends undergarments. I hope I have lots of grandkids and can spend tons of time with them, and even more I hope I can leave them something financially to help better their life.

You just hate America, the greatest country that ever was and ever will be, dontcha? Love it or leave it commie!!

What's worse though, a mission for a cult, or 'retirement' in a senior community where golf, anti-depressants, and enough daily fiber are all you live for? Shudders... Maybe their kids and grandkids are grasping sociopathic greedy entitled little americans in their own way, so running off to save the heathen in a foreign land might not seem like such a bad thing. How sad is that?

+1 to the infinte power. Every word jesuswantsme...every word you wrote!

+1!

Maybe this couple don't really have a relationship with their kids and grandkids so noone cares they are taking off for some foreign country.

i wouldn't care if my parents did. That would just mean less time to see them. They spent most of thier lives serving the church, verbally and physcially abused some of us (my mom did), so i don't want them around my kids for long periods of time. Too bad that they have finally figured out that church sucks you dry and leaves you with no friends in your old age. They still love the church and believe in it.

I treat my parents like the acquaintances i wish they were. Well, maybe a little better than that. I'll be going to their 50th wedding anniversary gathering even tho idon't think it's any thing grand to celebrate as they seemed to just stick it out because the church said to. Maybe they are finally getting along, i don't know. I don't much care.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2013 01:16AM by karin.

The idiot TBM I know (she's really my only reference point, all the others I know are exMos), her parents are going on a senior mission 'call' to Thailand. I don't see this as a bad thing. Her inlaws (never Mos) live less than fifteen minutes from her and their son, they don't see their three grandkids as often as HER TBM parents who live 190 miles away, but right down the street from the temple (Mesa). I see this as a better opportunity for the never Mos to have more influence. I'm being stupidly optimistic, but a girl's gotta dream....

My parents have chosen the church over family - always. Their interest in our lives is in relation to our activity in the church. They finally sold all they had and are now on a mission in Baltimore. Their days are filled with searching for inactive members, cleaning the church kitchen, hanging out with teens after school at the church, and that is it. My parents would rather clean a fridge than spend time with their family. I'm all for people doing something productive with their time, volunteering for your community or wherever, going on. Acations, enjoying a well deserved retirement... All my parents are doing is a colossal waste of time and they have only pulled away from their family more by going on this mission. They could not relate to us before and will have nothing to come home to when they are done. How will their later lives be when their children and grandchildren have as much interest in them as they had in us?

The church pressures people who are older to serve missions just as it pressures teenagers coming of age. The bish tried to call us for at least work at the temple but DW explained her limitations before I had to outright refuse. Temple work is make work and of absolutely no importance to God. Indeed, I know of people who spend untold hours at the temple so as to work up "brownie points" for the celestial kingdom. This is NOT Christian.

I would rather work until I die than serve a mission away from our children and grandchildren.

She is a widow with 4 adult children and several grandchildren and even some great-grandchildren.

And last month she announced that she's going on a "temple mission" to Europe for a year. All at her own expense.

An interesting side: This particular "calling" will be to act as a "Motel manager" for housing next to the temple. She'll manage all the rooms for people who go on a trip to the temple and stay pvernight for a few days, a week, a month, etc.

I'm amazed at the hold the LD$ church has on an otherwise family-oriented loving & intelligent woman.

Howard Hunter said "The family is the most important unit in time and in eternity and as such,transcends every other interest in life." (Howard W. Hunter, Ensign - November 1994)


Do you think that LDS, Inc. might be embarrassed / ashamed of all the time/energy they steal? Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, they're Not!

I guess he was 'Speaking As A Man'!!!!

I came at the end of my parents' childbearing years and so they were somewhat older when they had me. I ended up having infertility problems when I decided the time was right to start my own family and the arrival of my children was also on the "late" side. So the time available for bonding and memory making with their grandparents was somewhat limited anyway. I was upset when my parents announced they were leaving their family to go on a mission, something I didn't think was anything but a waste of time that was already in short supply when it came to the chance for my kids to spend time with their grandparents. I tried, however, to keep the fact that I was upset to myself as much as I could and I support their right to spend their time in whatever way they choose just as I would expect them to support my right to do so.

It was hard to let them go for all of my little family and we missed them a lot. It was especially hard on my youngest, who had an extra closeness to my parents. I remember holding him a couple of times as he cried and said, "My grandpa and grandma are NEVER coming back!" He was very young and it really did seem to him like they were gone for good. One of my parents died not very long after returning from their mission and that also was extremely hard, especially for this littlest one who had been extra close to them. When I get to missing my dad I sometimes get this pang of sadness about the time we lost so he could go do chores for the church, time we didn't know was going to be a couple of the last few years he had left to live. But I think it gave my parents a sense of accomplishment to do the mission and I think it gives my mom, who is still trying to adjust to losing my dad, another layer of good memories with my dad to hold onto. They kind of bonded closer to each other during their mission because they were all each other had, being so far away and cut off from the rest of their family. I also have to look at it this way: my parents are/were the cutest grandparents in the world and very, very close to the kids so I guess having less time with spectacularly good grandparents is better than having a little longer with grandparents with whom you don't really share much of a good bond or who aren't all that interested in you.

It bugs me that seniors are pressured to leave their families to do busywork for the church, but I do think it is their right to go do that if that really is what they want to spend their own time and money on.

Recently, in my hometown, a man killed his wife and then turned the gun on himself leaving several children parentless. His parents had just left for a senior mission in the states. They returned for the funeral but went back to the mission immediately. I understand there is a lot of extended family but, in my opinion, they are terribly wrong not to stay and help their grandchildren deal with this tragedy.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2013 04:13PM by moira.

wow, that's really sad.

This elderly and aging Boomer generation will likely be the last, most stubborn generation with respect to Mormon doctrine and bureaucracy and in many ways the entrenched position they have taken will be the death of their beloved Mormonism.

The only remaining viable path for Mormonism is adaptation, they have failed to recognize their deceitful ways, imagined that the testimony of simple mothers and fathers would withstand truth and knowledge.

Mormonism is a fraud, created by a con man, and nurtured by tyrants. It will continue to adapt in a laggard manner or die. The fact that the simple minds of TBMs can't accept the market failure of Mormonism as evidence only confirms that this religion has no place on the stage of legitimacy and will have to revert back to insular cult status like its' Joseph Smith-Book of Mormon believing fundamentalist kin in Southern Utah and Northern Arizona.

Good riddance you lunatics.

One of my TBM relatives is a computer programmer. The Mormon church kept giving him mission calls, but he said he was retired and bored with programming. Finally, he caved in and went on an 18-month mission as a math teacher at a church school. His wife was a secretary there.

Another TBM relative and his wife were administrators for a church-run business in Brazil.

A single TBM businesswoman retired, and the church sent her to Japan to run a business office there.

Several retired attorneys, one a friend of mine, were called on a mission to Japan to negotiate the land sale for the temple there.

Does this sound like FREE LABOR to you?

Four doctors I know, went on missions, to be doctors for the missionaries and senior missionaries in the field.

A widow friend was called on a "service mission" to clean and manage the mission president's house in England.

A family in our ward did construction, and they served several "building missions" to help build temples and ward houses in other countries.

All of this is free labor. Most of the secretaries and administrators in the COB are senior missionaries.

Senior missionary friends of mine told me they were on "computer missions" here in SLC. Some of them contacted my children on Facebook, and found out their addresses, which we had kept from the church for a while. They sent out two different sets of missionaries to my children's houses. Their job was to infiltrate Facebook and other sites, and to hunt down inactive members.

Does any of this sound like "God's work" or "helping those in need?"

Mormons are brainwashed that going on a mission will help their families. NOT. One neighbor's business partner stole his business when he was gone. Another neighbor's house burned down. Another neighbor had two of his children--one daughter had 9 children--get divorced. They had no place to live, because the missionary couple had sold their house to go on three consecutive missions!. The wife got desperately ill on the last mission, but completed the mission, and died two weeks after she got home. My cousin took a calling in the temple, and her retired husband got fed up and divorced her to go sailing. I could go on with more horror stories.