If you're like me, there were times in the LDS Church when what you heard and what your common sense said clashed. Boom. Up came a Red Flag.

I'd like to share one of mine and hear some of yours.

One time, many years, ago, as an avid participator in Ward Firesides, we met at a member's home for a Fireside Talk on some topic around: Evidences of the BOM in South America or some title like that.

This is a memory from over 20 years ago, so I am relaying the general ideas.
So here goes: While listening, intently, I realized that the speaker, who came highly recommended as an expert of some sort, never once said there were any evidences. Not really. He did indicate that there was some notion that when they were found, they would be found by non LDS archaeologists.That would give them more credibility. Swish, boom, up went a Red Flag.

After the meeting, I recall having a short conversation with one of those people I considered a "spiritual giant" -- or at least, a tall one! His lineage comes right out of the D&C. Well known name in early Mormon history by Joseph Smith Jr!

So I asked him some question about what I concluded regarding no real evidences. He was rather stone faced, and replied something about how they claim it will bless your life. The reference was the BOM and the LDS Church, of course.

He repeated his comment (I can't quote it exactly, of course) but I do recall the words: bless your life. I did the: but, but.. and he seemed to get a little irritated and shut me down with how all we claim is that it will bless your life and walked away. Hmmm..... Interesting how I have remembered that event, including the house we were in and where we were standing. (Don't ask me what I did yesterday ! )

I went home cogitating on what he said. This was one of many Red Flags that came out of the blue over the years. I let it go. Figured some non LDS person would eventually find evidences. It never happened, as we know.

The first one that I ignored was from the month we were Golden Contacts (remember that term?) an the Elders in their hats and goofy car came to our door as my called them. Oh boy. That's a story for another time also.
That Red Flag was: Joseph Smith Jr was a prophet.
Ahh.. my mind said: not so fast.
Coming from out background in Spiritualism and having family Sittings aks Seances with a trance medium for years, we easily concluded that Mr. Smith was channeling!

Oh well. That works for us. Plus the Elders were nice, drove us to church, and kept tabs on us, never mind that we never had Home Teachers, or Visiting Teachers and were not there when our names were read in as new member. (Another good story!)

I ignored that Red Flag and figured if everyone else was testifying, he was a prophet, I could to. So in six months I joined the testimony bearing system.

There were a lot more Red Flags but for some reason, I developed the ability to not see the color red or a flag!

It was Onward, Full Steam! Three words described my life: BUSY BUSY BUSY!!!
Without going into my whole conversion, temple marriage, moving to Provo.... these two big fat questions were: SHELVED!

OK. What were your Red Flags?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/27/2014 12:12PM by SusieQ#1.

Seminary. Only went in grade 12 (not offered in the town I attended grades 10 & 11 in). Uber TBM instructor mentioned Kolob about 2 weeks in. I challenged him on it.....told him he was teaching BS...I walked out of the class. Never went back.

Ron Burr

Lethbridge Reprobate Wrote:

>
> Ron Burr


Kolob is, in my view, the #1 funniest thing Joseph Smith Jr ever came up as a name or word. And, it gets worse as he gets into some kind of New Age astronomy. And is it a star or planet?

He often spelled names using other names, etc.
There is a web site with the lists of where he probably got the names from.

Now to look at the word: kolob. Spelled backwards is: bolok or bolock/s which is a British term for: testicles or balls.

Did he do that on purpose? I don't know, but it sure is funny!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/27/2014 12:57PM by SusieQ#1.

One of many red flags as a convert:

At my YSA branch (now a ward) in Chicago, they sang "Hie unto Kolob".

Not having had the extensive seminary/Sunday school/longterm indoctrination many of you had, I asked the question any remotely curious person might ask:

"What the f**k is a Kolob? And why is he so "hie" he can't spell the word "high" correctly? And why is he not sharing his goods with Sister Godtoldmetorun? Huh? Huh?"

Alas, God didn't tell me to run quite yet...but He did tell me to consult His trusty sidekick Google God. (Mormons say Google God is God's nemesis, and that was my first red flag. I knew that was a lie. God created people who created Google God from the rib of some mathematical formula I will never understand.)

After my research, I could understand why much of the congregation started giggling over the choice of song...

That mathematical formula is PageRank. :-)

I love that you use your real name :D

Always...and on every site I'm active on. No fear, no worries.

Ron Burr

SusieQ#1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> So here goes: While listening, intently, I
> realized that the speaker, who came highly
> recommended as an expert of some sort, never once
> said there were any evidences. Not really. He did
> indicate that there was some notion that when they
> were found, they would be found by non LDS
> archaeologists.That would give them more
> credibility.

Interesting how they totally ignore the mountains of evidence
AGAINST the claims of the cult but brag about all the wonderful
evidence that WILL be found at some unspecified FUTURE date.

I ignored all kinds of red flags. I recall attending church
AFTER I'd come to realize it was false. Then, it seemed, that
every speaker was throwing out red flags right and left. I'd
just never picked up on them before.

Hindsight is always 20/20. This is when you notice the red flags you should have seen a long time ago. My red flags were my ex-husband. His behaviors, his judgment and criticism, passive-aggressive methods of dealing with conflict, ignoring me; these things should have raised some red flags and have me running in the opposite direction, but instead I married him. These things never changed and only got worse. He's an abuser and the very insidious type. It took forever to recognize it. I wish I knew more about Mormonism before walking straight into it (never converted, just married one). Red flags all over the place with Mormonism. Looking back, I see the flags. I wish I would have figured it out sooner.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/27/2014 12:41PM by omreven.

2. Multiple versions of the first vision (learned that one in D&C class at BYU).

3. In the D&C: JS got a few too many 'revelations' telling people around him that he was right or to do things that would benefit him. How 'convenient' to have God on your side.

Joseph Smith, one true church, temple needed for an eternal family, polygamy, Quakers on the moon, and probably many more.

But what trumped all the red flags was..."I love you! I want to marry you! And I want us to join the Mormon church together."

Young, dumb and in love. Worst reasons EVER to convert.

I joined the Church in 1998. Almost immediately there was a Proposition in California (I joined in Santa Cruz, where I was going to college) regarding same sex marriage. It was talked about in church and it made me uncomfortable but I mostly ignored it. As the years went on, and I met more openly gay people (Santa Cruz is pretty liberal) I began to doubt the Church's position on homosexuality. In 2004 Gavin Newsome, the mayor of San Francisco, began issuing marriage liscences to same sex couples and I saw some elderly lesbians get married and I cried and cried. Clearly God couldn't think ill of their marriage, and a big chink appeared in my armor. If the Prophet was wrong about God's feelings in this matter, what about others? And then this all came to a head in 2008 with Prop 8 in California. I spoke my feelings passionately and with much tears in my tiny Central Valley branch Relief Society, and the 1st Counselor's wife stood up after me and told me that she didn't think people who didn't support the prophet should be in church. I told her she was probably right, and left, never to return. I just resigned earlier this month.

caligrace Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
I too was touched by the older same sex couples finally getting married. It was very emotional for everyone.

Incredible that some woman in RS would be that crude and rude when you expressed your feelings.

Sometimes. we don't see the Red Flags at first, but when they hit, it's like an avalanche coming down and we get out fast!

Thanks for sharing your experience.

I left in 1998... after a very strange experience. I've shared the story of The Man in the Woman's Restroom and that incident and how it was handled and how it was the last straw for me!

I had several times that now I wish I had call BS on the whole thing, but I continued to be a TBM.

1. On my mission, a GA berating us for our failure to baptize. The mission only had one baptism in the month prior to his visit.

2. Church court, ten years later. The whole process was surreal. I felt at the time they disfellowshiped me instead of exing just so I would have to continue paying tithing. My court to get back in full fellowship was even worse. I was under a lot of pressure to return in order to baptize my oldest.

3. The church’s treatment plan I had to follow to “not be gay” to get back into fellowship. Taught me to hate myself even more.

4. Regional PH meeting when I was in EQP where another GA berated the men for not working hard enough. I have a personal letter from that GA that I keep with my other church papers, including my resignation letters.

5. Sitting through the gossip sessions in ward council meetings.

6. The red flag that finally got my attention was watching the primary program in SM. That was when I recognized that my spiritual witness was nothing more than indoctrination.

Mine was blacks being banned in the Priesthood. I was in high school when the ban was "suddenly" lifted. In hindsight, I'm pretty proud of my 10 ten year old self thinking how disgusting this was. I would sometimes mention to my parents that they were prejudice, and they would ademately deny it. It was such turmoil to my psyche...ugh. I get pissed just writing about it.

Adam and Eve in Missouri

The flood

Only one true church. Don't Muslims, Hindus, Catholics (whores of all the earth) etc., get those same funny feelings and "know" their church is true?

God only picks old white guys from the western USA to head his only true church. I know we have token Uckdorf now, but especially in the past.

From the pulpit:

"Black people have the mark of Cain in their kinky hair. You can feel the evil when you lay your hand on their heads." This was the main flag.

Also: Every single primary teacher I had was mentally ill. It was obvious.

The janitor was abusing a mentally retarded boy during church hours. I knew because I had a hideout in the attic.

When I got to be eight, I refused to be baptized and my parents didn't force me. Thanks Mom and Dad!

BYU religion class--to obtain our godhood, we may need to become like our Savior by submitting to crucifixion. I think everyone woke up out of our sleep at that one. Boner.

I was BIC and never thought much about it until mission time. I was so looking forward to the temple and it was such a let down. Worse than boring, it was creepy, especially the anointings. If I had known about those ahead of time, I would have never gone. I never did do W&A in the temple after that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/27/2014 02:47PM by axeldc.

Had to be, smith's story about finding the gold plates and running with them for miles while fighting off 3 attackers. That was the flag. Then i found out the plates [according to smiths dimensions] would have weighed 200 + lbs. I actually tried to replicate this feat in my gym with a 90 lb. dumb bell and sparring with a friend. I'm 5'11" 215 lbs. and work out 4 days a week. It was an exercise in absurdity, my nevermo friend is looking at me like.. whatever dude, what would possess you to do something so stupid ? It took awhile to wrap my mind around that one, 1 month of internet study of lds inc. LMAO at the apologetics of air gaps in the gold plates, differing metalurgy of the plates [anything to make them lighter!] and i'm out & living life

One of my sons wanted to share with me what he had learned from the Tanner's books he had read.

I listened as he shared so I could understand why he wasn't active. Indoctrination was pretty deep in me after decades of complete dedication. He never gave up and kept sharing with me. My thinking was that I could explain the questions and information he had. Little did I know......

BYU graduate, bishop's wife, Rel Soc Pres, Gospel Doctrine teacher, stake callings...... I was steeped in the gospel.

Or at least the version of history the church teaches.

I had never heard of the multiple first vision accounts, or of the head in the hat, or of Smith's polygamy with other men's wives, or of the real reasons behind the infamous 'persecutions', and so I began to listen intently at church.

My red flag came when I was teaching gospel doctrine during this time and realized the church was not what I believed it to be. In the lesson manuIal for adults and what I had been taught through the years was not accurate...things were being left out. Purposefully.

Brigham Young manual....and no mention of polygamy.

I started reading the entire quotes, not stopping at where the periods of elipses were in church manual quotations and I was stunned.

The essays are trying to appease the members, but in fact are opening the door to more questions. I think now the essays are red flags themselves as it seems nobody in the first presidency wants to put their name on them. Plausible deniability.

I should have seen the red flag when I went through the temple for the first time and saw Satan, and the ways my life could be taken if I divulged the information, and the odd chants, and the charge to give all to the church.

Red flags are everywhere to me now.

Good for your son, Liz.

I think John is a fairly honest guy and I heard him speak many times. His basic message was there is no physical archaelogical proof of the Book of Mormon. He always looked very uncomfortable saying this, but that was his conclusion.

So many red flags hard to pick just one.

One thing taught to us at an early age (in seminary maybe?)was the missing 116 pages of the BOM. At the time, as a kid, I didn't think about how stupid the whole story was. I thought yep, God must be mad at Joseph for lending out the pages after being told no. When I got older, I thought of it as a test of faith. If I thought about it too hard, it started to become very self serving and made up, so I pushed the thoughts away and told myself God was testing OUR faith.

Dum dum dum dum dum.

I was only 14 or 15 and the missionaries had just taught me about this guy in 1800s New York who was visited by God the Father and His Son, Jesus Christ.

Then this angel, named Moroni, came and told him about these buried gold plates .....

An eyebrow shot up and I said, "Uh huh?"

I should have listened to that very first red flag. But over time, I convinced myself that adults wouldn't lie to me, would they? If they believed it, then maybe there was something to it.

My first temple session. I sat there waiting for the whole of Mormonism to flood over me in a glorious wave of truth and spirit-and then it was over with me still waiting. I went through the veil thinking, "This is it? A handshake and a password. That's the height of Mormonism?". The red flag was there. I just didn't pay attention because my parents and grandparents and my friends and their parents believed. Most of the people I knew believed-they couldn't all be wrong, could they?

My first after about 5 years of being a member, reading a book in our town library about how poligamis marriages continued under ground after the manifesto. As most people do put it on a shelf for the next 25 years.

I was told the translation of the Isaiah scroll found in Qumran matched Joseph Smiths Isaiah translations in the Book of Mormon...Red Flag. He was the "ward scholar." We all know the rest of that story.

Nephi beheads Laban with his own sword, then disrobes him and puts on his clothes to fool the servant.

Um, how much blood flows out in decapitation? How could the
clothes be wearable? What stupid servant would help someone steal his master's treasure with such a cheap ruse? What servant would then agree to leave town to parts unknown with his master's murderer and thieves?

Polyandry, similarity of Temple to Freemasonry, many versions of First Vision. Needing a husband to get into CK - insanity... lol

God listens to and answers prayers, never could get a credible result that was differentiable from self.