I learned this morning that my TBM spouse no longer feels attracted to or close to me because -- and this is a direct quote -- "we are now too fundamentally different". I asked if Spouse wants a divorce and the answer was no, not because of love for me but ONLY because "it's a logistical nightmare and not best for the kids". I asked if Spouse would go to marriage counseling with me and got an emphatic and unequivocal NO. The response was basically that the fault is entirely mine for "breaking our marriage contract" and until I come back to Mormonism, we don't have enough in common to make it a real marriage. "We're just two people sharing a house."

I have a question.

How is being in an unloving relationship good for kids? If the parents don't love each other and the kids pick up on it, wouldn't that mean the kids would expect marriage to be like that? Wouldn't they blame themselves? Your spouse needs to rethink this entire thing....

I'd tell her this. Marriage counseling or divorce. Those are her two options. Don't let her use the children you have together to control you. Remind her of the God-given agency she professes to believe, and how she's robbing you of it by denying you a right to be happy (either by making the marriage happy again, or by leaving it to find happiness elsewhere).

This!!! Or tell her if she refuses both, then you consider your marriage null and void and are free to do what you want; you will care and provide for the kids and yourself but not her.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/27/2013 06:10PM by Susan I/S.

Withholding what kind of support here? Withholding money from the spouse is what abusers do. This will not play out well in the divorce with the kids. Being all wonderful and supportive with the kids and withdrawing and ignoring the spouse is a horrible way to live and also abusive. Counseling and get the marriage back on track or make a split.

And if spouse refuses counseling and divorce (which she stated) and says they are just sharing a house, then what? I'm telling him to give her what she wants; become roommates who are raising kids. She doesn't want to be his wife or act like his wife. Why should he act like a husband?

Sorry, I mixed genders up too. Still, my advice remains the same. Or pack up the kids and go on a summer vacation to visit a relative who lives out of state and tell him that it's either marriage counseling or divorce.

I got the genders mixed up too, and the sad reality is, one spouse just may not want to try at all, but to withdraw finances and bicker at each other with dirty looks and the silent treatment is no good for the little ones. Even worse when one spouse is making efforts and trying. I really read the the worst case scenario when I read your comment. To peacefully coexist may be the best and only option at first, but long-term, can't say that's the best route...and hopefully peacefully coexist. What a nightmare.

I see followups that this probably isn't going to work out. Mormonism claims the death of another marriage and family. And to promise to make life miserable if she goes through with divorce? Dear Lord, consult with an attorney and document everything.

How heartbreaking. I'm so sorry.

I agree with others that you don't have to go along with her demands. You can tell her she either goes to marriage counselling, or the marriage is over.

Or you could tell her that if she considers you only to be roommates, then you will consider her as such and will go on with your own life as though you're not married.

No one should be forced to live within a loveless marriage.

Oh my. I'm so sorry this is not working out for you.
I think, that she may not recognize that you are not so "fundamentally different" after all.
Maybe more time is needed for her to adjust to your changes?

I'm sorry you are in that situation.

Is she the main breadwinner or are you? Who has leverage?

Here are some ideas to try out:

"OK, we share a house, but I'll find someone who loves me on the side."

"I'll read a chapter of the BoM (or book of her choice) each night with you if you read a chapter a night of Compton's In Sacred Loneliness with me."

"Fine. You love the church and Jesus more than me? I'm not going to be second in your life. Deal with it."

"If you found out that anything else in your life was a lie, would you just deny it because your marriage was based on the lie? If you found out your father was a mass murderer, would you just ignore it because your relationship with him was based on you not knowing?"

"Look. Knock off the threats. I'm not going to jump through a bunch of hoops some controlling old men have convinced you are necessary just to make you love me."

"I hope your bishop provides someone to keep you warm at night. Maybe he can assign some "worthy priesthood holder" to come by and boink you. Hey, that sounds like something JS and BY would do."

So sorry!

I don't recall anywhere the OP mentioned spouse was female -- is that what everyone's assuming? It could be the other way around, in which case it's even harder for the one who no longer believes.

Did spouse have a contract with OP or with the church? Even in the temple sealing ceremony, there isn't any wording that suggests the marriage is null and void if one person stops believing in TSCC. There may not even be any language that says TSCC is officially part of the marriage contract.

Sadly, at least OP now knows that TSCC is more important to spouse than OP. If a person can turn their love off and on like a light switch, it's not really love.

"Love is not love that alters when it alteration finds." -- Shakespeare

Actually, it's a male, not that it matters. He is right that it would be a logistical nightmare and swears to make it as bitter as possible for me if I "insist on putting the kids through that kind of selfishness".

How does one find the courage to end a marriage they never wanted to end? I am hurting right now that his love for me is based on a role, that he refuses to live his own 11th Article of Faith (as SusieQ would say), and I am scared out of my mind.

Sorry I had the genders mixed up.

Make plans to protect yourself.

If you decide to live a lie, you wouldn't be the first. You've got to make the best decisions for you.

Good luck and take some time to think things over once the shock of the ultimatum leaves.

Agree, document everything. He may have friends on the side too.

So tragic! Another victory for the brainwashing cult in breaking up families. I know you will be living a nightmare if you agree to your spouse's terms of marriage. Get a non-Mormon marriage counselor and if spouse will not go then see a lawyer and tell spouse it's better for children to have at least one parent who knows how to live by truth and teaches truth to the children than try to maintain a lie, supposedly for the sake of the children. It won't work.

I knew a couple who lived the exact same life your spouse is describing and the kids were totally miserable for years and begged the parents to just get a divorce and be done with it. The wife finally agreed to divorce but not until the last child was home from his mission because she wanted to show the happy family image to the ward. Your spouse wants to avoid divorce purely for selfish reasons. Has nothing to do with the kids.

your spouse is married to the church and not you.

Document (write down or record) EVERYTHING Spouse says and does. If you do end up in divorce court, these records will be invaluable in establishing what really happened (and getting the judge on your side), especially when Spouse tries to claim he never said such things.

It may be that he is trying to scare or manipulate you back into church. It certainly sounds very controlling and not like he is concerned about you or the marriage at all.

So he is witholding love, presumably sex, and marital affection until you recant your heresies and do things HIS way?

How christlike is that?

And, is that the kind of man you want and deserve? Even if you truly love him, consider the possibility that you deserve someone who actually loves you back.

Again, I'm so sorry you are going through this. It sucks.

My TBM DH felt much the same when I left the church. It has been really rocky because he was scared out of his mind that I would go crazy and off the deep-end. (That's what all ex-mos do, doncha know?) It got pretty close to divorce, several times, but it is finally getting better (almost 2 years after the event). There's a lot of anger and healing to get through (for both of you!!!). Don't make any rash decisions right now, show that you're still the same person you always were.

When the house of cards falls, it takes a while to pick them all up and put them in a neat stack again. I hope you can work it out.

I have been out of the church for over 2 years. I had been hoping that we would settle into some kind of give-and-take routine of mutual respect but I see now that it is not going to happen.

I'm sorry but this is a divorce issue..my opinion is children do not flourish in a marriage like that..just like they don't from Mormonism..I have not figured out how or why ppl would stay together if one left the church..that doesn't make sense to me but I know there are many right here who are doing it for whatever reason..I myself cannot imagine living or sharing my intimate life with a mormon mate. But I wish you the very best..there is alot of happiness ahead of you..maybe being single and someday finding an equal minded free spirit wouldn't be such a bad thing? Never change for anyone!!

To me, this seems like it's more about control than anything. He thinks by shunning you and punishing you, you will come to heel and do as you are told. What would happen if, next time he makes threats like this, just say "OK" and then go live your life as if he didn't exist? I don't suggest this as a long term thing but if you are indifferent to him, if you act like you don't care what he thinks, he may be willing to re-think his "program" and go to counseling. If he's been able to continue with his emotional cruelty for two years now though, he may not be able to budge.

I had a friend that was in a similar situation with an emotionally cold, controlling (especially financially controlling) spouse. He went to counseling but quit after two sessions, calling it a waste of time. To make matters worse, she had been a SAHM so long she'd lost her teaching degree. When things came to an ultimatum with them, she quietly became indifferent, did her own thing with the kids, went back to school, got a teaching license renewed, put her finances in order and walked out on him. Even though she had to play along for a while, she was in a better position to leave and, more importantly, to influence her kids and show them how hard she'd been willing to try before she gave up. You want to be able to work from a position of strength before you leave so you have the ability to hire a good lawyer and to limit your spouse's ability to turn the kids against you and worse, turn them into little Mormon robots.

You don't deserve to be stuck in this situation forever. Don't let him bully you into thinking he holds all the cards. You may have to bluff for a while til you get a good hand but get yourself in a position of strength for your sake and for the kids.

As suggested above, document everything. Try to get him to put it in writing, or to tell someone else. This might be a long slow painful process and you can use a log of it to stay sane.

Child sup and spousal sup...will not change regardless of what you document, why be miserable??? I would be packed up with my kids and gone!! But then I am not a BIC or a long time convert..I would not live like that!!!!...you don't need a lawyer to file for emergency support!! Plenty of legal help out there..to me this falls under abuse..emotional abuse..and it can get a hell of alot worse!

Anyone can do better than that.

Sorry to be so blunt about this but why on earth would you want to spend the rest of your life with someone who is wired up like that? You deserve to be happy and free of religion and anything else you need to be free of to thrive.

You have more power than you know.

Briggy

I haven't posted in quite a while but this really hit home with me. I stopped going to church last summer. My DH was really angry that I "betrayed everything our marriage was based on". Really??? I haven't been unfaithful. I take good care of him and our 2-year-old twins. In fact I'm a better wife and mother than I ever was before. I take time for myself now and I'm in the best shape of my life. I put the girlies in the jogging stroller and we go out and enjoy the beauty of nature (especially on Sundays!) Our house is cleaner than it ever was and I've become a better, more adventurous cook. He withheld sex for awhile but I just put more energy into working out. I feel so much better physically and mentally that I can handle the emotional crap that still comes along. I am strong and I am happy. I feel good in my skin (and my non regulation underwear). I've come a long way in the last year.

I would go see an attorney (a good one) and find out just where you stand financially.

I wouldn't discuss it with him at all. I wouldn't tell him you're going to see one.

In my experience, someone whose as cold and rock headed as this is not usually likely to take to counseling. They want to call ALL the shots, and they don't care what a counselor might think or say.

Get your finances in order, and then go do what's best for you and your kids. You don't need his permission.

Agree with Mia..besides even if he will go to a non lds counsler..he will run everything by the bishop...eeww my skin is crawling

You mean that your tbm spouse is now trying to control you and force you into submission by witholding the most vital emotions that make up the bond between youmLove is not made of such flimsy material that it fails at the change of anothers opinion. But, mos dont allow for true love and true family that does not revolve around demands of the morg. How sad that people are so brainwashed that they are unable to see the reality.

I could understand if it was just a temporary state of shock, but two YEARS?

He's not normal.