So apparently while I was over at a friends house today the elders called and made an appointment with my wife to come talk to us on Wednesday. I've never been one that was afraid to talk, either on my turf or theirs. So I'm kind of looking forward to it. I don't want them to feel ambushed to I'm going to prepare a few ground rules and have them agree to them before we start.

Rules:
1. Whereas 4 of the six of us have resigned from the church and the other 2 are non-believers, you will treat us as if we are non-members.

2. All truth claims are proven by logic, reason, and evidence. emotions, feelings, and other squishy things prove nothing except that people get emotional when they talk about certain things. This is not to say the emotions are unimportant. It's just that emotions tend to impair logic and reason.

3. Do not under any circumstance tell me what you "know" unless you can provide evidence to support that knowledge. (see ru1e 2). Statements about how you feel, what you believe, and what you want to believe are just fine. Claims of knowledge however must be held to a higher standard.

In return I will:

1. Be patient with you and you are welcome to stay and talk about anything you want as long as you stick to these rules.

2. I too will obey the above rules 2 and 3.

I look forward to a pleasant discussion. I hope that the teacher and the student can both be edified.

I'm glad you're looking forward to it. For myself, I can't see the slightest reason why I'd ever want to sit down and talk to missionaries again.

I guess I really am open to seeing if anybody can bring any new information to the table. I doubt that will come form a few 18-20 year old kids, but I'm open. Under no conditions will I bend on any of my rules.
At the very least it will hone my skills at discussing the issues.

I've been considering just taking the lead from the moment they step in the door. Just assume that they signed up to hear the first discussion on logic and scientific skepticism. I might even make some critical thinking flip charts. I'll challenge them to read "Demon Haunted World".

Inviting guests who need SO many rules just to be tolerated.

They called us.

And we all know they're only there coerce and manipulate which is why they require even more manipulation than they dish out to be withstood. Then often they must be told to leave because they won't follow the host's preconditions.

All of this bobbing and weaving seems artificial and conniving to me.

I've told "The Elders" to leave before. Usually, they're lots of fun for honing my skills...but I was in no mood last time they came by.

I don't get it. When I went into the SP office to talk to him everybody criticized me for not doing it on my own turf where I could set the rules. Now I'm doing it on my turf and setting the rules and getting flack for that too.
Bottom line is I'm just not afraid of the discussion.

Are you kidding me? You mean some people are afraid of those silly boys??

What a joke.

I don't think you're getting flack. It's just people expressing their own preferences as they see fit.

Personally, I don't want to waste time on inviting people into my home who are rude and brainwashed. But I think some exmormons find closure early on and need these experiences to process their feelings and they like the idea of possibly planting seeds among mormon dupes.

not that there's anything wrong with that. Some people choose to remain silent too, but those weren't the ones that helped me leave. To each their own.

Let us know how it goes, OK?

I didn't accuse anybody of being afraid. I simply said I wasn't.

Interesting! I wonder if they will agree to the ground rules, or try to squirm around them.

It sounds like you have thought a lot about this and I hope it's a satisfying interaction, on some level :)

I think it's a good idea. I am wondering how they will react to your rules. Please do Return and Report.

+1

It's a good idea. I hang with the mishies often just to see what kind of seeds I can plant.

It's easy to think we should have no contact with them because they might be rude, etc., but the reality is, if no one would have taken the time to point out the fallacies to me, who knows if I would still be in the cult! I always want to be there for others whose lives are being swallowed whole by this insidious cult. You really never know what kind of impact you'll have on them.

Sounds like an interesting evening in the making - maybe you'll "plant some seeds."

The one rule I might change is the "no bearing testimony" one. I would probably let them bear their testimony then proceed to tell them why I felt it had no meaning and bear my testimony right back that I know the church is false, that Tom Monson is just a regular man, and that JS is a con man.

The thing is missionaries are indoctrinated that if they bear their testimony their is nothing you can say back. (Probably because most people think - what can I say to that inanity.) However, if you do counter back with a reasoned response it will likely catch them completely off guard - testimonies are supposed to be the silver bullet - could be fun.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/06/2013 01:45PM by The Oncoming Storm - bc.

I'm super curious about what will happen.

Good luck to you! My little brother is on a mission right now and I hope an understanding, caring person can plant some seeds in him too.

I never could out of respect for the rest of my family ...

All depends on what they are coming to accomplish. They may just come to seek info then return and report. If they are there to reactivate they can probably get around your rules by just repeating that you once had a testimony and you are denying it. They could do any number of things to accomplish whatever it was they were sent to do. I think they were sent because nobody else in the ward wants the job of seeing you and hounding you back to the fold.

I was staying with my mother while still an official member but my membership records were elsewhere. The ward obeyed my demand to talk to me as a friend and not give a message. Soon as the Membership Clerk located my records (against my desire) and brought them to his ward the visits became message driven. That's basically what pushed me over the edge to resign.

Just remember that most mishies are babes, clueless, and being used by TSCC. I'd use the opportunity to turn the tables and kindly ask them how they came to believe TSSC was "true" beyond simply being taught since birth. Then I'd give them some tools for discovering truth.

Times sure have changed. As a missionary, we were told to stay far, far away from apostates. TSCC is getting desperate.

I reckon this sounds like a fun evening in the making - the rules are good too, what are the consequences for breaking them (you know they will)?

Enjoy!