Last night the wife of one of my best friends called me crying so bad I could barely understand her.

Just a little background so you can understand what's going on here, her husband and I studied and converted to fundamentalism about 6 years ago, and at one point we were both looking for a 2nd wife to marry. I stopped looking about a year ago when I became disillusioned, and then announced to him a few months ago that I was done with Fundamentalism and Mormonism completely. He was upset, felt like I abandoned him, and thought that I was gullible and naive believing the things I read from books and the internet that were "anti-mormon." He gave me 2 days to try and convince him it wasn't true, and I sent him some mighty good evidence that he just ignored or said it was from the devil. I even mailed him a copy of Grant Palmer's book Mormon Origins. Turns out he never read it, but his wife did...

So we talked on the phone for several hours. My wife also spoke with her. She was at her wit's end. A couple years ago she started to doubt Joseph Smith, but her husband and I "set her straight" by giving her books to read. I'm very ashamed of that now, and I feel responsible for what's going on in their marriage. Anyway she confided that her husband is still talking to a girl online, and that's all he's done every day for the past year almost. He forgot their 10 year anniversary, and when he did remember later, he took her out and all he talked about was his girlfriend.

I asked her what she believed and where she stood. She said she didn't like Mormonism, but followed her husband and is trying to stick it out because she's afraid of the consequences in the afterlife, and she mentioned DC 132 that talks about the sin being on the women's head if she doesn't give permission to her husband to marry another. She is completely miserable, and has no one to talk to, except now for us, since her husband recently told her that we no longer believe. She read part of the book that I sent them, but now she can't find it and thinks her husband hid it or got rid of it.

My wife and I told her that she should not make decisions based on fear. We told her that we'd support her in whatever she decides to do, and that she can always call us whenever she needs to talk. I apologized to her for the damage I caused for helping her husband get into this warped state of mind. I feel very responsible and horrible because of what she's stuck in. Her husband ignores her and gives her the cold shoulder because he is upset she isn't excited about plural mariage like his is, and he read her some quotes from Brigham Young that talk about what happens to a wife who doesn't share or follow her husband.

By the end of the call she was cheered up and encouraged, but asked us to please not tell her husband that she called. He was sleeping when she called, it was about midnight.

Today I got a call from her husband. I didn't answer. Don't think I'm ready to have that conversation right now. I'm sure he found out and is furious. Maybe I'll wait a few days to talk to him after he's calmed down. If I do I will try my best to talk some sense into him, but it's going to be pretty futile. He lives and breathes this stuff, and he doesn't seem to listen to reason.

So anyway, don't know what advice anyone might have, it's a very strange and unique situation, but I want so badly to help his wife get out of that situation if it can't be fixed. Is it my place? Do I let her come to the conclusion of what to do? When am I overstepping my bounds? I'm so conflicted, but for now I think I'll ignore any calls for a few days, unless his wife calls again to let us know what's going on.

I don't have any advice really and I don't know your friend as well as you do but from what you said, I'd be pretty scared of the wife being abused.

While I firmly believe consenting adults can and should engage in whatever sexual relationships they want to, in practice, polygamy usually ends up with the wife or wives in a scary place of mental, if not physical abuse.

Again, you know better than we do but if you suspect ANY sort of abuse, you need to report it and/or help the wife get out of there.

If there is abuse, you are NOT overstepping your bounds.

Not sure what else to tell you but for some reason, I just got that tone from your post. Hopefully I'm wrong.

As far as I have been able to tell, there is no physical abuse going on, ironically that's against his religion. But there is plenty of emotional & psychological abuse going on. It's heartbreaking to watch this happen, and just to think that I nearly put my wife through that just sickens me.

This must feel so confusing for everyone involved. Are there children involved in all this?
I think if there are she needs to decide if that is what she wants her children to grow up seeing. If there is not she needs to decide if that is a life she really wants. I know that no matter how much I believed in the TSCC, I never, ever felt comfortable or accepted polygamy.

That is a good point about the kids, I'll bring that up to her next time we talk. They have 4 kids, one of them is in a wheelchair and requires a lot of work and attention. It would be overwhelming for her to be a single mom and have to take care of all of them. My wife and I might end up helping them if she gets out.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/03/2013 11:22PM by DonQuijote.

Ultimately she will get out of the situation. She doesn't want it for herself. Whether sooner or later, who knows? If I had a friend who needed help I would do what I could to get her out as long as it wasn't a threat to me and my family's safety. She should be encouraged to make a plan of escape. If he wants plural marriage he will have to start with his new girlfriend and work from there.

Sadly, that's what I see happening too. If they lived closeby we'd have her come live in our basement, but they are 3 states away. Depending on what my conversation is with her husband is, we might just try an plan an escape for her if that's what she wants.

Glad you got out before finding the second wife and before your wife came to such a state as the poor lady you describe.

Take care of yourself and your own family as a top priority and help her if and when you can.

We thank our lucky stars every day that we didn't get to that point. I remember when we were looking and talking to people, it made us very unhappy and miserable some times, which is why we wised up and stopped to re-evaluate our beliefs.

This week I actually emailed one of the girls I used to talk to a few years ago (back then I taught her about Fundamentalism and got her into it), and I shared with her the things we had found that made us quit Mormonism. She took it very well and is now studying mormonthink and is going to read the books I recommended. Glad I can fix a little of the wrong I've done.

Like Oprah says: "When we know better, we do better.

One thing about your post that I'm absolutely struck by, is your consideration of your wife and the other lady's feelings. By my own presumptions/nightmares of a fundamental Mormon life, being considerate of a female would be non existent. Color me impressed.

Anyway, with regard to your friend's predicament, I agree with the escape plan. Domestic Violence hotlines would be helpful in setting up a plan like this.

Thanks, I guess that's why I wasn't really cut out for it. I never understood why I was taught to be more important than my wife, and I knew that when my wife ever thought of me being with another women it made her physically ill. At the time I told my wife that she was supposed to be equal to me, but she asked me how that could be, when it's all about the men. Each wife is just a number, another "jewel in her husbands crown" and that she can't be exalted without being sealed to a man who she has to share. She stumped me on that one.

I've spoken with many polygamist wives, and some of them seemed happy, but I know that some of them were lying. Especially one guy who had like 10 of them, he had us over for lunch one day. He was in his eighties. All his wives fixed up the food and set the table. The head one got to sit and eat with us while the others stood around and watched, and were only spoken when spoken too. The part that made me really sick was when his youngest wife who was in her twenties had to go sit at the kid table. She never complained or ever said a world and I never saw her smile. I asked him about her and he said that he used to date her mom, but someone else married her, so he married her daughter instead. Even joked around with her that her mom was a better kisser. Wish I could rescue her out of that situation too, but apparently she believes that's where she's supposed to be.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/04/2013 01:53AM by DonQuijote.

Please tell her husband to let his wife go and he should go get his girlfriend as his new wife No. 1.
Your friend's present wife will NEVER be happy as wife No. 2. She is not happy as wife No. 1 anymore...........
She deserves better than this. I don't even know her but I think all people deserve not to have to be in a marriage (or any relationship) that is making them unhappy.
My cousin is a polygamist wife in Colorado City, AZ and hates it, but can't leave because she wants her children and they threatened to kill her if she tries to take the children. It SUCKS!!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/04/2013 02:06AM by enoughenoch19.

She told me she's lost respect for him and doesn't love him anymore, maybe that's the advice I will give him, to let her go. Especially since she didn't know she was signing up for that when she married him. I wish something could be done for all those people like your cousin. I watched a documentary once where they were able to get out a wife and her children. The wife went back after she was threatened, but her kids were eventually able to escape. It was called Sons of Perdition. I watched it when I was still in Fundamentalism and I cried through the whole thing.

There is a web site called a shield and a refuge ministry. Its a site designed FOR women wanting to escape polygamy. If she not quite ready to run but needs to overcome fear. Tell her to watch:Polygamy;what love is this". Its a great call in show run by an ex-polyg..! She can call in if she wants and its also on line too.They will also send her a free dvd to help her. Ive met enough polyg.decendance to know it doesnt benefit anyone but the husband. BEST of LUCK w/your Friends!

Awesome thank you, I believe this will be useful.

I was going to suggest the same website. You can help her, but you can't do it alone. It does sound like she needs a hand though, good luck!

don't be afraid to bare your testimony of fact and history to her husband, I think he is in a place where he wants this other girl thing and is using religion and strong belief to internally justify it.

declare that he is doing the same thing as joseph, lying to himself about things to further his own purposes.

this has come to a head, I personally think there is no going slow now, strong words are probably best. rebuke him for treating his wife like a piece of chattel tell him it is morally wrong for him to force her into something she doesn't want. be honest, speak with emotion. he won't succumb to logic because logic didn't get him in this spot, emotion did.

Update:

I have spoken to both my friend and his wife several times now. He doesn't know I'm talking with her, but he has talked about the situation briefly with me. I haven't said a whole lot so that he wouldn't know I've been talking with her, but he no longer gets the encouragement from me that he used to get when he was talking with other girls, and I encouraged him to take care of his current wife and make sure not to do anything that would risk loosing her. He expressed to me that she admitted about not believing in Brigham Young anymore, but wouldn't say yet about Joseph Smith or the Book of Mormon.

I spoke with her today and she has been studying a lot of the things I told her about from church history and she said that she no longer believes in anything to do with Mormonism. She was really excited about some of the things she had found that she had ignored before because it was "anti-Mormon," just like most of us here have done at one time or another. She's in a really unique situation though where not only is her husband a TBM, he's a converted fundamentalist TBM and she has no family or friends that she could talk to about it besides my wife & I. We talked about her giving him an ultimatum, that if he goes to visit this girl for a week like he wants to do in a few months that she won't be home when he returns.

She is getting more confident now and the guilt and fear of rejecting Mormonism is going away for her. So glad we can help her out of this, but I sure hope her husband snaps out of it eventually like I did. I have hopes that he will come around, but right now he's in love & practically engaged with this other woman (who isn't even Mormon by the way and they've never met in person) and his head is in the clouds. Although she said that he has been treating her kindly for the last week or two, but she can't tell if it's a tactic to get her to come around or if he's starting to realize what he's doing to her. Who knows, but things are at least becoming more clear to her now, and I think she's going to make the right choice.