I think this reactivation effort means that the Brethren know that the core of Mormonism is collapsing. The LDS church can't survive in its present form if white North Americans are not at the heart of it. Once black Africans and mestizo South Americans begin to outnumber whites the traditional church is doomed.

I want this more than anything. I just want my mom to be free from the cult, & to find a church that will be supportive of her as a person.

I think a good analogy is that of apartheid South Africa of a few decades ago. If the Mormon church doesn't begin to add some non-white diversity to the Ruling Fifteen, I think it won't be long until significant pressure (like boycotts) are brought to bear by the outside world. You're right: once "North American whites" lose their absolute grip on power in the church, things will change significantly.

Plaese elaborate. IMO, the current G-15 are incapable of seeing all those non-whites as anything more than window-dressing and token examples of the G-15's own success. Can the current crop of G-15 ever start to see other races as inherently their equals in every sense, inlcuding their capability of running the church all by themselves with no need to ultimately defer to the manifestly superior Old White Males? What do you think?

I agree that the CURRENT Fifteen are unlikely to make any significant changes in regards to racial diversity in their own ruling quorums (Qof12 and FP). However, down the road a few years when a large majority of the Mormon church is non-white (which seems to be the direction things are going), I think the world will put a lot of pressure on the church to appoint a proportionate number of non-white members to the top of the hierarchy. Once the church bows to that pressure, new ideas and ways of looking at the world will be introduced into the governance of the church and the Mormonism we know today will cease to exist.

But god only talks to white men.

God has diversity issues.

Maybe. That would be nice. I'm not holding my breath though. I used to get so annoyed by these missionary pushes when I was a Mormon. All I ever wanted was for the Church to go away and leave me alone. Now I'm a former member, and it's still annoying. I get contacted by family members in a really phony manner. They do their usual obvious "building relationships" bullshit, and I'm polite. Then they start spouting off about their church, and I have to get after them about it. Then they get all offended and storm off in a huff until the next time. You would think they would learn after all these years, but they never do. It's so dumb.

Well, the Prophet Mohammed nor the angle Gabriel nor the Koran have gone away. What makes us think that Smith, Moroni, or the BoM
will leave us... too many enthusiastic followers ...

Exactly! I think comparing Mormonism to another religion is a better way to judge longevity than comparing it to the CCCP.

Then let us compare mormonism to the Christian Science church.

The latter is stagnating: little growth, some contraction {depending on location}, concern for the future, etc.

I can't predict when the end will come, but the CS community really doesn't look sustainable long term.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/24/2013 09:26PM by 3X.

I think that is a good way to think about it. That is a likely scenario for Mormonism at some point.

Wish I believed that. What's more, where the Soviet Union encompassed the largest landmass of any country on earth, with tens of millions of people, and was a powerful military force with global reach...and the Soviets were rational.

Mormonism, by contrast, is a pimple on the ass of Christianity, a religion that, with all sects counted, numbers about 2.18 billion (Pew Research, 2010). Mormonism is a fringe sect of 14 million (by the church's wildly generous estimates--about 0.6% of people who claim to be Christian). The sect is dismissed as a cult by the devout 2.1799 billion, who fairly effectively innoculate their membership against Mormonism. And that's just Christianity.

It sucks for those of us touched in some way by the cult, but on the good side, it ain't no giant like the Soviet Union--even if their reach is disproportionate to their numbers. On the bad side, the little cultish religions really effectively brainwash the relatively few that follow them.

"The sect is dismissed as a cult by the devout 2.1799 billion"

That couldn't possibly be true. A huge amount of those 2.1 billion have most likely not even heard of Mormonism. Those who do know what Mormonism is couldn't care less about the religion. It is likely that only a small amount of Christians take any stance whatsoever on Mormonism. I can't imagine why they would even care.

Yeah, you got a point...a huge amount HAVE never heard of them. I agree. And I also wrote badly here...I don't think that 2.1799 billion "Christians" are devout...but that the ones who are, and who know about Mormonism innoculate against it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/24/2013 09:29PM by stillburned.

Ahh, I see. Yeah, those are the ones who are most likely to be ready for Mormon style tactics.

How the hell did a mormon get nominated for president? I think this cult has an inside track with our government and they definitely have a seat at the table.

They aren't going anywhere.

That people, mostly, don't know squat about Mormonism is how this guy got nominated president. He may be Mormon royalty, but he's political royalty too... And you're right. I don't see them going anywhere in my lifetime...not that their membership will ever swell to the once imagined status of a 280 million person world religion.

It won't be in our lifetimes, but eventually I think all religions that are around today will be replaced by something else.

We study ancient Greek Mythology, or ancient Roman mythology. But it wasn't mythology to them at the time. It was their religion. They practiced it as such and they believed in it.

The Egyptian religion was around for thousands of years. I don't think they could even imagine that some day their religion would no longer be practiced at all.

I picture 1,000 or 2,000 years from now school children studying ancient Christian mythology.

"I picture 1,000 or 2,000 years from now school children studying ancient Christian mythology."


Don't forget the mormon mummies, preserved in Jello ...

Remember "the good old days," when our biggest fear was the "Godless commies" in the former Soviet Union. Gee, those were simple times, weren't they?

Look at them now, with their hateful anti-gay sentiment.
Thanks to Putin and the Russian Orthodox Church, the country is passing laws that will put you in prison if you dare to tell a child that the concept of homosexuality exists. This is just one law of many.

Anti-gay thugs and demonstrators are brutalizing gay men and women in the street. Even wearing a Rainbow pin can land you in jail.

http://www.reuters.com/news/pictures/slideshow?articleId=USRTR3CU31#a=2

The pendulum swings. I don't think religion will ever go away. It just evolves. A new prophet. A new liar. And unfortunately, that evolution includes lying to the faithful, and torturing and killing innocents for the Lord.

When Paul Dunn came to my mission in 1970, he made the following statement: "Don't be surprised if there are someday several quorums of 12 apostles. One in North America, one in South America, one in Europe, one in Africa, one in Asia. "

Maybe that is how Mormonism will survive all of these latter-day demographic changes.

I can't believe Mormonism has lasted as long as it has, with overwhelming evidence of its fraudulency. I suppose it's because it keeps changing it's policies and soothing the members over; I mean it's only had what half a dozen branches off of it. I'm just glad I wasn't born into one of it's crazier branches.

The only way it will survive is if it keeps changing.

It will take a generation to collapse, but it's started already. Die in the wool baby boomer members have to fade away first.

You're thinking it's just a church dependent on members and tithing. Not so. It's a huge bunch of corporations: land ownership, businesses, and so on.

It ain't going nowhere, kids!

This is Business .... Big Business.
It's designed to stay solvent and keep on going ...

Nothing goes on indefinitely. Not even corporations.

We won't be here to see it, but eventually it won't be there anymore.

Even our countries will change at some point in the future. They all do. One year I was given a new Atlas for Christmas, only to immediately have it be out-of-date with the re-joining of the two halves of Germany. I was so annoyed. LOL

The Soviets collapsed in a spectacular fashion because they were broken financially. There were some reports of incidents such as Air Force Base Commanders not being personally paid for a couple of years before the collapse.

All signs point to LDS Inc being in dire financial straits. We do not know the figures, but we certainly see the clues.

The economy was undoubtedly hard on them. I personally think that LDS Inc has been a giant scheme since its beginnings with a few families shoveling every non operating dollar out of it. Not the alleged million they give to apostles, rather 10s and hundreds of millions under the table.

I would not be surprised, when the interest rates dropped to historic lows, that they may have leveraged every bit of real estate they own.

Of course senile leadership continues to make poor operating decisions. I would suggest that Hoffman did not set his sights high enough when demanding a couple of million for his documents. I am guessing some slicker deal makers, perhaps family of the LDS executives, made some incredible business deals.

Since ALL actual clues point to the concept the church is dead broke, I would submit there is a far grater chance that LDS solvency will hang by a thread far more than the US Constitution.