After 17 years of marriage my husband and I are discussing the pros and cons of an open marriage. Does anyone have any experience with this? It is something I never, ever thought I would do but just talking about it had brought us closer. There is a chance of this happening somewhat soon so we need to make some decisions. Any advice?

Been there done that. In my experience, you've basically just experienced the early steps of a divorce. There are obviously exceptions to that, and I know a handful of people that have been able to navigate the sexual and relationship dynamics of such an agreement. But for the most part, it truly is...in my experience and based on my observations...an early gentle step to a waning relationship. Your mileage may vary...I genuinely wish you and your spouse happiness and peace as you navigate through these choices.

I failed to add that my spouse and I are now separated and will likely divorce in the next year, after eight years of an open marriage. I don't wish to be all doom and gloom...just sharing my experience.

Open marriages/relationships are common amongst the gay people I know.

I know many long term, happy and healthy relationships that are open.

There may be different issues for straight couples.

I'm sure there are many here who have good experiences and are willing to share.

Long-term, simultaneous, very much committed, polyamorous relationships here...with "monogamish" probably the best description for each (simultaneous) relationship. (We're our-kind-of-"monogamous" most of the time...but hall passes are available.)

As of this moment in time, Tuesday 9/9/2014:

Marriage (legal marriage): 44 years married (as of our anniversary earlier this year)...

...Very committed (simultaneous) poly relationship: 29 years together (as of our anniversary earlier this year)

Both are, by everyone's choice and wishes, till-death-do-us-part relationships.

We are gigantically much, and hugely enthusiastically, looking forward to expanding our poly family in the very near future, and we fully expect this to be a committed, till-death-do-us-part relationship as well. (This been in the works for a VERY long time--which means: a sizable chunk of years at this point. We feel that everyone knows else enough to be able to pretty much predict that, as a live-together family, this new relationship will also be a committed, till-death-do-us-part relationship. This is what WE want, and this is--to the best of our knowledge--what the other person also very much wants.)

I left out the gender and orientation info:

To date: Two men...one woman...everyone straight. (Incoming member is male.)

When I have a hard time keeping up with one!

I guess more than one is not for everybody:-(

ok Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> GEE-WHIZ, how does a woman handle 2 men,
> soon would be 3?


Very happily, actually!!!

:D

Good for you obviously...that's good to know!!!

With one man is a handful, I can't imagine two or three of them....LOL

Incoming member. LOL

What brought this subject up?

Are you and your husband needing more than the other can provide?

From all the posts I have seen on this subject over the years here at RfM, it is most likely the beginning of the end.

I have no personal experience with this - only what I have read about in other posts.

I wish you both the best. I hope you both get what you are searching for.

my experience 2 women with solid friendship based realtionship....we were always in charge....various male partners did not seem to mind.....lived together as "trio"also lived separately at times...but we were the bosses...and we kept our friendship as the bottom line-anyone threatened by this went bye-bye.She legally married our "favorite"guy years ago...I am still welcome....very,very precious to me."Our"kids grew up with many adults&had security that alot of kids of divorce don't have.

Yes I have.

And if I had it to do over again, I wouldn't.

Good luck.

I have some friends who went poly a few years ago. They (and all the various people they were collaterally involved with) seemed to have revolving bedroom doors. I quit trying to keep track of all the hookups, move-ins, move-outs, breakups, feuds, jealousies, and power plays years ago. The only people who ended up being happy were the men (who had several women each).

What happened to many of their kids speaks even less well of the lifestyle. One emancipated at 16 and moved out, choosing to drop out of high school rather than live with his poly parent. Another ended up in foster care after custody was taken away from her poly stepdad (the only person actually willing to take responsibility for her). One of my kids was friends with a kid from the original couple above; this teen talked about how embarrassing the situation was for him and how he hated to go home because he never knew who would be there. I'm sure there are stable relationships in the lifestyle, but I haven't personally seen any, and I think it might be very hard on the kids if the parents are not in long-term, stable relationships.

I don't care unless kids are involved. Your reply pointed out this problem clearly. thank you.

There are many devoted, stable poly families with children.

The two-parent nuclear family is a fairly recent Western invention. It's not bad, it's just fairly ethnocentric to claim that that's the only way. Historically, it's not. Children have historically been raised by communities or tribes, and still are in many parts of the world. Besides, most kids DON'T grow up in such an environment anymore; most kids are born to unmarried parents, and many have divorced or single parents. Are we to outlaw that as well?

Disclaimer: I'm not poly but know stable, loving families that are. They have beautiful children and are as faithful and stable as any monogamous couple.

These other artificially configured set-ups make children have to live as quasi freaks.

Just because something is done a certain way in this society doesn't mean it's inferior or lacking.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/10/2014 06:40AM by Cheryl.

It is like communism. It works out great on paper, however, in real life, an entirely different story.

Speaking from experience.

Yes I was in a wonderful at first marriage that after 7 or 8 years became open and remained that way for an additional 20 years. We had to work through jealously and possessiveness and learn to be truthful but without sharing TMI. After we learned those things the tension ended. This extended the life of a marriage that otherwise would have ended. It did eventually end but for reasons unrelated to it's openness or other parties.

but, I thought there was a high risk for sexual diseases when you have sex with multiple people?

Depends on who you're having sex with. If it's women with women, there's a lower risk of diseases than for straight sex or sex between gay men. And of course everyone involved should always use protection and get tested regularly, and then the overall risk is very low.

"risk is very low" that could be true...

But, staying monogamous would be a lot lower risk or no-risk than a non monogamous. So, why taking that risk at all?

Why have sex at all? Why not just remain celibate? That's less risk than one sexual partner.

Because you enjoy sexual connection and sensual expression? Because one partner enjoys doing things another doesn't? Because you enjoy the emotional aspects of sex? Because it feels good? Because you're an adult and you can make your own damn decisions?
...

Hi anonlady, thanks for being patient with my questions!

But here's the thing, if I'm having an "emotional relationship" or
"any romantic relationship" with some people, I would be be having sex with them, that's for sure!

Um...ok? Good for you?

I can't remember if it was Mormon Stories or a similar podcast, but search and you should be able to find a very open interview about one couple's experience trying this.

It was actually quite easy for the wife to pick up guys in bars; hubby found it difficult. They had agreed to take turns and talk about it. He ended up paying for sex - at least the first time. I think they tried swapping with 2 other couples, mixed success. Eventually the wife went on a vacation with girlfriends, had a fling with a younger guy, and she found herself wanting to continue that relationship.

She finally decided to put their family first and they shut down the open marriage experiment. The husband, who was interviewed, wasn't sure it had been a good idea. He had a hard time finding action and almost lost his wife.

I would definitely look for such first hand experiences before trying this, if only so you are prepared for likely scenarios.

There is a new book out which discusses each of the issues mentioned by the above posters (including children/family issues), and discusses these topics in ways which make polyamory understandable to everyone...not just poly people, or people who think they might be interested in a non-monogamous lifestyle people.

MORE THAN TWO: A Practical Guide to Ethical Polyamory, by Franklin Veaux and Eve Rickert.

I have lived a poly lifestyle for most of my life, and I could not have written this book. It is by far the best book ever written about polyamory--which means that it is better (and, in my opinion, better by far!!!) than the popular standards up-to-now: THE ETHICAL SLUT (undoubtedly the bestselling book ever written about non-monogamy), as well as the several excellent books on polyamory written over the years by Deborah Anapol, PhD).

For anyone who is interested in the subject of non-monogamy... or who is thinking about a non-monogamous relationship lifestyle...or who considers themselves non-monogamous in relationship orientation, I STRONGLY suggest that you read MORE THAN TWO. It is available right now on Amazon, for less than twenty dollars.

This is the best money you will ever, EVER spend if you're thinking about opening your relationship (either a current relationship, or a potential future relationship).

It answers all of the questions, comments, and observations above--and much, MUCH more, in a very accessible, readable, understandable style.

It is REALLY good!!!

It's pretty telling that most responders are equating poly to 'multiple sexual partners.' While that might be what the OP has in mind, that's 'swinging.' Nothing wrong with that either--but polyamory is much more than that.

"polyamory is much more than that." Ohhhh?

How so? please do tell anonlady.

You do get to have sex with more than one partner!

Polyamory refers to more than one emotional relationship. It may or may not be sexual, just as any romantic relationship may or may not be sexual. Generally, people identify as polyamorous because they are interested in multiple emotional romantic relationships and do not believe in limiting romantic love to one person or that it is natural to limit it. When people are simply interested in sex outside a relationship, they generally cheat, or, if more open with each other, call themselves swingers or have a vaguely defined open relationship. I know people who do not identify as poly specifically because they do not develop emotional bonds with others besides their primary partner, though they may or may not have sex with others, and people who identify as poly who only have sex with their primary partner.

Don't do it. If you no longer mean the vows you took, get a divorce. A promise is a promise. Remaining married and breaking that promise leaves the door wide open to more broken promises.

I am no prude either. But, I believe in keeping a promise. If I don't want to be married and want to screw whoever I want (which I did when I was single), I'd stay single. I promised to be faithful and I don't break promises as a rule. Nobody's perfect.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2014 11:52PM by verilyverily.

So having an intentionally open, mutually decided-upon agreement about dating others means 'screwing whoever you want?' That seems to be not at all in the spirit of what the OP is saying.

And marriage can only be monogamous? News to me.

Once you allow other people into your marriage, it is only a matter of time before one of you falls in love with someone else and decides to move on.

axeldc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Once you allow other people into your marriage,
> it is only a matter of time before one of you
> falls in love with someone else and decides to
> move on.

Polyamory means (literally) "many loves." Absolutely, in polyamorous relationships, and at least most of the time, at least some of the people in those relationships are in love with more than one of the other people involved. That is, in fact, the point. They may also consider themselves spouses of those other people--whether this is the legal reality or not. More often than not, and especially when there are live-in, "in love" poly family members, those who are in love with each other consider themselves spouses to each other, and frequently refer to each other as such ("my husband," "my wife") regardless of the lack of legal recognition.

In contrast--in other words, in the world of swinging "open marriage," etc. (which is distinctly NON-polyamorous, by design)--it is true that sexual ("only") partners CAN become people who become emotionally involved with ("in love" with) each other. Doesn't ALWAYS happen...but it happens a fair amount of the time. Some of these people transition to poly relationships...others may divorce. The ones who divorce generally have less strong emotional relationships to begin with.

People who are truly in love with each other generally do not "move on"--certainly not if they're able to reconfigure their relationship to INCLUDE the newer person who is loved. This is not an either/or situation...UNLESS one of the people demands that it be, and in this case, divorce can certainly then happen.

axeldc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Once you allow other people into your marriage,
> it is only a matter of time before one of you
> falls in love with someone else and decides to
> move on.

Polyamory means (literally) "many loves." Absolutely, in polyamorous relationships, and at least most of the time, at least some of the people in those relationships are in love with more than one of the other people involved. That is, in fact, the point. They may also consider themselves spouses of those other people--whether this is the legal reality or not. More often than not, and especially when there are live-in, "in love" poly family members, those who are in love with each other consider themselves spouses to each other, and frequently refer to each other as such ("my husband," "my wife") regardless of the lack of legal recognition.

In contrast--in other words, in the world of swinging, "open marriage," etc. (which is distinctly NON-polyamorous, by design)--it is true that sexual ("only") partners CAN become people who become emotionally involved with ("in love" with) each other. Doesn't ALWAYS happen...but it happens a fair amount of the time. Some of these people transition to poly relationships...others may divorce. The ones who divorce generally have less strong emotional relationships to begin with.

People who are truly in love with each other generally do not "move on"--certainly not if they're able to reconfigure their relationship to INCLUDE the newer person who is loved. This is not an either/or situation...UNLESS one of the people demands that it be, and in this case, divorce can certainly then happen.

OMG, if I sit here and try to even understand the "Polyamory thing", my head will explode!

I'll just stick to what is simple and familiar to me,
1man+1woman=marriage! Haha, less confusing!

ok Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OMG, if I sit here and try to even understand the
> "Polyamory thing", my head will explode!
>
> I'll just stick to what is simple and familiar to
> me,
> 1man+1woman=marriage! Haha, less confusing!

Nah...you already understand this completely--just in a different context...

You give birth to (or are the father of) your first child. You very deeply and sincerely love your first child...

...but then, a year or two or several later, you give birth to (or are the father of) ANOTHER child. Do you quit loving the first child in order to love the second? Do you deposit either your first, OR your second, child with an adoption agency so they can find parents to this (now unwanted, or inconvenient) child?

Of course not...you love EACH of your children with everything that is in you (though you may love different things ABOUT each child).

Love, whether it involves your children, or adults in your life, doesn't have to be a 100%/0% situation--where you are only able to love ONE at a time.

Polyamory is exactly the same thing: you love EACH of the people you love 100%--although you very probably love (in particular) different things about each of them. But whatever it is in that person that you are responding to, you love them 100% of your personal ability to love.

That's the great thing about love: we are able to love one, two, three (or sometimes more) people 100% EACH.

This is, in fact, one of the transcendent and wondrous miracles of life. :)

So you're homophobic too?

Some therapist sadly looked a couple and said sometimes only one can be happy. They were promoting the lifestyle & what they meant in their professional estimation only one member of that particular couple could do it.

Google attachment styles, abandonment issues or adult children of neglect or adults who were victims of severe neglect or abuse.

If one or both of you desire a new partner or open life regardless of your own or spouse's issues which may prevent their capacity to find contentment in the lifestyle you may want, that's the deal. you may want something which a lifetime cannot cure those issues sufficient- to enable a more wounded partner from experiencing part of it as a re-enactment of former young abandonment or attachment.

It requires the capacity to be independent, non clingy, non dependent, great boundaries, "securely attached" for attachment styles.

I couldn't (tragically) support other than an open: be happy away from me ticket / don't tell me / don't socially engage while you're with me / be nice-play nicely & love my spouse while they're with me. To some degree its a problem with me, I know it. The open schpeel is to prevent this so both partners can poly connect. I just can't; my life, who I am, is defined in a reflection dancing the life of who I am with. Too many mirrors around I just reflect and accomodate their music, their style & then I loose myself. It's way too hard for me; there's no me left accomodating or flexing without boundaries around so many people. I become like a mirror.

Having one spouse seems to make it easier to be me & hold to myself- some hobbies thoughts life style, not just keep flexing and flexing socially accomodating person after person's style without boundary. Even exploring emotionally - in hindsight exhausting.
I think one man is enough for me. But I'm almost 53.


This may not matter knowing it or not if you don't want to be married in a traditional way to them, or they to you so why does it matter if one of you lacks the capacity to find contentment (being open)?
if you weren't content or one of you wasn't then the traditional marraige wasn't contentment either for one of you.

Just this exploring thing doesn't go off the same for everyone. You might check it out first. It might require therapy.

I think life is worth it. I think you deserve support. Whatever you choice is. having a good life having a great life matters.

Call me old fashioned, but I think that whatever playing around you want to do should be done *before* marriage. If you do enough of it, you get it out of your system.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/10/2014 05:58AM by summer.

Talking about sex with others is sexually exciting. Watching porn can be sexually exciting. Too much porn you lose the sexual excitement. Having sex outside of your marriage is like too much porn. It seems exciting at first but you have to have more and more.

Best thing you can do is keep it in your bedroom just between the two of you. You will move on to something else.

I do know a good divorce lawyer if you need one.