Isn't there a scripture in D&C (or is it BoM?) that states that those who died without the law were automatically saved, and had no need for baptism?

I would prefer a D&C reference, if anyone knows.

What happens to people who die before having had a chance to hear the gospel?

D&C 137:7-8 says they will go to the celestial kingdom.

BUT:

D&C 76:71-78 says they will go only to the terrestrial kingdom (a lower kingdom than the celestial).

BUT:

D&C 128 and 138 outline the Mormon "work for the dead," one of the principal purposes of the Mormon temples, to enable all the dead who repent (after death) to attain the celestial kingdom.

BUT:

BoM Alma 34:32-35 says that those who do not repent before death are eternally lost: "...that same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world... ye have become subjected to the spirit of the devil, and he doth seal you his,... and the devil hath all power over you; and this is the final state of the wicked." (See also 2 Ne 9:38 and Mosiah 2:36-39)

Great! Here is a case where God HAS to sort them out and LDS Inc. is presuming to do God's work for Him.

Thank you!

The Alma 34 reference -- I brought that up and asked about it because it contradicted the other things the mishies told me.

The way they explained it is that it's really referring to intent of the heart.

So basically, if you're a mean and vile person here, then you will also be in the uh... prison place. And since you're that kind of a person, you're not going to accept when the mishies from the good part of the holding place come to preach to you.

But if you were basically a good person, then you will still be a good person then, so you'll accept.

But those other contradictions ... good to know that!

There will be no missionary work after you are dead. Everyone who is in the holding pen will be judged and then go to their Just Reward. Post mortal missionary work is a Utah invention.

Wow okay. Well, this is what they're currently teaching. I didn't know that it used to be different.

But yeah, that's a good point. And it is fairly obvious that the temple stuff as well as a good portion of what they do is to keep everyone busy so you don't have time to think. I felt that after only the first week.

It's an effective tactic.

And yes, the church has made god pretty inept and it's a very Old Testament kind of church (based on strict adherence to the law). That is not why Jesus came and died (if anyone is still a believer). He didn't come to destroy one form of temple worship only to replace it by another.

Ancestral work is really a very Anglo-Centric concept. What of the countless hosts who lived and died in obscure corners of the world without keeping any kind of ancestry records? Doomed to spirit prison til the end of the millennium I guess.

Why can't the prophet just do the temple work for everybody that died - a one shot deal. Why does it have to be one at a time, and why do we need to know the names? Does an omnipotent God need to keep paperwork and have people dunk for the dead. Its so damn stupid ....

Of course the real reason for the holy temple is to require everyone to pay tithes and keep everyone busy so they don't ask questions. The real reason has nothing to do with the dead. LDS GAs could care less about the dead - just the cash.

Besides, if people really are waiting wouldn't a one time proxy baptism etc., for everyone that has died be the most charitable? Why do they have to wait around in "prison"? That's Mormon Jesus for you - a real jackass.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/12/2014 05:13PM by perky.

No need for temple work whatsoever according to D&C 137:

4 I saw the beautiful streets of that kingdom, which had the appearance of being paved with gold.

5 I saw Father Adam and Abraham; and my father and my mother; my brother Alvin, that has long since slept;

6 And marveled how it was that he had obtained an inheritance in that kingdom, seeing that he had departed this life before the Lord had set his hand to gather Israel the second time, and had not been baptized for the remission of sins.

7 Thus came the voice of the Lord unto me, saying: All who have died without a knowledge of this gospel, who would have received it if they had been permitted to tarry, shall be heirs of the celestial kingdom of God;

8 Also all that shall die henceforth without a knowledge of it, who would have received it with all their hearts, shall be heirs of that kingdom;

9 For I, the Lord, will judge all men according to their works, according to the desire of their hearts.

10 And I also beheld that all children who die before they arrive at the years of accountability are saved in the celestial kingdom of heaven.