When I was a TBM and living in Utah, I knew (as far as someone I interracted with personally) exactly... hmmm, let me see.... one non mormon. That was my cousin's wife. Even after I was semi-active and then resigned my membership, I worked with one nevermo (in an office of about 70 people) and knew a bunch of other exmos, none of which were targets for member missionaries. Oh yes, there was a Russian couple who lived above me. They'd already told 200 people they were not interested.

So they send these little kids from Utah out on missions and they just can't understand why the locals are not following the words of the holyprofitogawd and inviting their friends and co-workers into their homes to hear the missionaries. After all, if they knew any non-mormons in their hometown, they'd do the same thing. Yeah right.

Members don't do it because it's embarrassing. They'd tick off their friends and co-workers and they know it. Life could get very uneasy for them. They all know their beliefs sound kooky (because they are). They know how stupid they must look to non-mormons (because they do). I knew it when it was me. I just hated that people in Utah thought the whole country/world was as easy for mormons as it is for them.

You are completely right about Mormons in Utah not knowing many non-LDS to share the gospel with. And, it's entirely because of their own arrogant snobbery. When my kids were very little and I lived in Salt Lake, I purposely put them in a Lutheran preschool because I was worried they'd turn into typical Utah Mormons. We lived in a more LDS part of the city - or so it seemed to me at the time. The non-LDS moms had NOTHING nice to say about the local Mormons. They felt snubbed, judged, looked down on and generally ignored. When they realized I was Mormon, they were kind of embarrassed about what they had said and I told them that the locals treated me the same way - because I was an unworthy California convert. I told them I could totally relate. One of them later told me that she could always tell the Utah Mormons from the Transplant Mormons from out of state because the Utah Mormons were snots and the Transplant Mormons were nice to her and the other nevermos.

From my limited experience in (non-BYU) Utah, I have to say that Mormons do not make friends with non-Mormons in Utah. They are too busy snubbing them as unworthy. Who are they going to share the gospel with? And when the Utah Mormons deign to be nice to a non-Mormon, there is always, always an ulterior motive. Like "Hastening the Work." The minute the non-Mormon doesn't comply with the will of the attacking Mormon, they are dropped like a hot potato. There is no comprehension on their part of being a true friend to a non-Mormon. I'm certain there are exceptions to this rule - in fact, I can think of a couple right now that I know personally. But to a shocking extent, the overwhelming majority don't interact with non-LDS in a way that earns the respect, friendship or interest even, of that non-LDS person. They want nothing to do with Mormonism after seeing how most Utah Mormons live up close.

If it weren't for the vulnerable little children of inactives, Utah missionaries would be in desperate straights.

Very well said!

"Mormons do not make friends with non-Mormons in Utah. They are too busy snubbing them as unworthy. And when the Utah Mormons deign to be nice to a non-Mormon, there is always, always an ulterior motive. The minute the non-Mormon doesn't comply with the will of the attacking Mormon, they are dropped like a hot potato. There is no comprehension on their part of being a true friend to a non-Mormon. But to a shocking extent, the overwhelming majority don't interact with non-LDS in a way that earns the respect, friendship or interest even, of that non-LDS person. They want nothing to do with Mormonism after seeing how most Utah Mormons live up close."

+1

Sums up my whole experience in Utah County. What's even more irritating is when you avoid THEM for this type of behavior, they accuse and slander you of being judgmental and mean.

That could be exactly why I actually don't mind my Mormon neighbors in my new Utah neighborhood- they are completely different than women I grew up with- because they mostly grew up out of state or have lived extensively out of state. It really helps with their perspective and seem like "normal" people. ;)

+1 spot on!

exactly my experience in utah valley..

They wouldn't be able to make it past the first vision story. There's so much wrong with that story that they couldn't begin to answer to.

They need to work on being better neighbors, and pick up after their dogs. That would do more for their image issues than having your neighbor over to tell them made up stories about JS.

I stay in the closet as far as my religious/spiritual life, even though I live in the Morridor. Since I don't care to be friendly and social with my Mormon co-workers, it's not really a problem.

From what I've seen, there are two types of Utahn member missionaries:

-- the ones who don't want to do it because it IS awkward and they DO know how weird their beliefs sound to non-Mos;

-- the crazy TBM ones who feel no shame about hitting up anyone who even appears to be non-Mo because they think their beliefs are awesome and everyone should live just like they do because they're so happy and perfect.

The second kind are worse. They just deny any of the crazy stuff by saying, "We never taught that!" or "Well, I've been a member all my life and *I* never heard that!" or "Oh, it's not really like that. You have it all wrong!" They just can't admit that yes, BY really was a racist, JS really did bang teenage girls and other men's wives, and the whole thing is fabricated.

When I was in YW (in the south SL Valley), our stake issued some challenge that on one designated week, every youth would bring a friend to church, and there would be some specially prepared combined lesson for all the wards to give to the YM/YW.

Of the 40 or so youth in my ward, guess how many brought a friend that week? ZERO. Not a single one. Very few of us even had any non-mormon friends. For years the church had been teaching us to insulate ourselves against non-mormons; all those carefully crafted "choose your friends wisely" lessons had worked.

That's bizarre. "Bring a friend to church" day in Utah. Like you're just going to go to the mall and ask some stranger to come with you?

Yes definitely as a Nevermo everything about Mormons and their culture seems bizarre and invasive.


Also I think that it is worth noting that Everything about Mormonism revolves around it being an American religion.

From the 'prophet',to the leadership,to where Christ will reappear.Also people in many other countries are far more conservative and can view the whole induction to the church very overbearing.

All of this could be attributed to the lack of growth in numbers.

Gordy Hinckley himself denied Mormon doctrine on national television. What better time to be a member-missionary than that?

Mormons are like pro wrestling fans. They know it's bunk, and yet they cheer for it whenever they gather.

Don Bagley Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mormons are like pro wrestling fans. They know
> it's bunk, and yet they cheer for it whenever they
> gather.

Love this, Don - a very apt comparison.

The Pro Wrestling analogy is pure genius, Don!!!

I'm going to steal that one like Joe Smith stole wives!

Wrestling fans are in on the con, and have been for decades - most Mormons aren't.

I go occasionally to a ethnic Methodist church which has numerous Tongans. I am always pleased by their youth, who even though they don't know me, greet me warmly, call me grandfather, and ask if they can help me in anyway. The young people in my LDS ward really care less as to who I am. They are involved with cell phones and other electronic devices. If I am observed at all, it is because I have sat down on someone else's bench which brings a glare.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/16/2013 08:40PM by george.

I've had a different experience working in Utah, SLC specifically.

In the first firm I worked with, I would guess 60% was LDS, probably less, it's a large company and not all those were active. I moved to a smaller firm with 13 people in the office and there was only 3 of us that were active LDS and one that went on occasion but not at all towing the party line. The others had no association with the church and I don't think they were ever associated because of the type of questions they asked and the way they spoke about the church. It was at this firm that I found the truth and stopped all activity. Now I'm at an even smaller firm with a total of 4 of us. Only one is true blue, myself and another guy were BIC and both of us left. The other guy is Catholic.

So I knew a lot of nonmembers but I never saw the need or benefit to discuss the "gospel" or be a member missionary. I always answered questions about the church when asked, of course that was from a believing stand point. My answers would be much different if asked today.

Now in my neighborhood? That's a different story, not many nonmembers that I know of, although when active I was told of several families that stopped going abruptly with no explanation. I was told no one knew why they stopped going. I'm sure they're saying the same about me now that my family hasn't gone in almost three years.

It's interesting about the transplant Mormon in Utah discussion. I grew up out of state and moved in permanently after my mission. I was told many times that I didn't seem to be a Mormon, it must have been my upbringing outside of Utah, not my soul radiating the love of Christ:(. My wife is from the south and we've had quite a few nonmember friends, I guess they were attracted to us because we didn't give a hoot what they believed and never pushed the church. We just like to have good company and now good wine with our company!