Playing off another current thread I began thinking back to the first time I heard that Joseph Smith was a polygamist and that he had married other men's wives too.

I grew up in a home with intelligent parents. In my entire experience as a youth in the church I never heard even a whisper that Joseph practiced polygamy. I knew what polygamy was, that Brigham Young was "celebrated" for his wives, that it was no longer practiced. Like the recent essay posted on LDS.org, I was taught that polygamy was part of the Utah pioneer experience and the need for women to be taken care of by the lesser population of men and that not many people practiced the principle.

THEN...

One day while working on a service project I became "stuck" working alone with the ward "know-it-all." He's a pain in the ass of many members, but he is well read and I was shocked when he exclaimed "Joseph Smith was a whore-monger." This man was (and is) TBM all the way, and I had no reason to doubt him after he explained everything he could in a 30 minute conversation. He had me convinced, and off I went to the Internet to learn what I know now.

At that point in time I had served as an Elders Quorum President, held every calling in the YM organization, I served as a Bishop, Bishop's Counselor, High Counselor and I had taught seminary for 5 years. Like my parents, I consider myself intelligent, but more than that, I consider myself very savvy. The fact that I had never heard anyone discuss Joseph Smith being a polygamist tells me TSCC had done a pretty good job suppressing this fact in my church experience. When I told my wife she was equally surprised. She has advanced degrees in Economics and ancestors who crossed the plains with Brigham Young.

We were both 45 years old...

When did you first learn Smith was a polygamist? How old were you? How long had you been a member? How did you find out? What was your initial reaction?

I read my ancestors' diaries when I was about 10 years old. They were neighbors of JS, and some of the very first members of the cult. My ancestors became polygamists, too.

The problem was, that I assumed that all the Mormons knew JS was a polygamist, and I got in serious trouble saying it in Sunday school classes, and at BYU.

I had read about the polygamy and polyandry and abortions in three different diaries, in my ancestors' own handwriting! About 10 years ago, BYU confiscated these diaries from an old aunt. They told her they wanted to "preserve" them. They told us that the family could go and read the diaries at the Marriott Library, any time we wanted. Several of us tried, and we were turned away by lame excuses, such as, we needed permission from our Stake President, the archives were "closed," or whatever. My cousin who WAS a stake president, himself, insisted to see the diaries, and the clerks said they "couldn't locate them." They were probably destroyed.

I also learned at a very early age. But... I am descended from several of his plural wives including the mother/daughter team of Sylvia and Patty Sessions.

I always assumed everyone knew.

Oh, and in my day, the 60s, we were told we were literally descendants of Joseph Smith.

Assuming you're right about the destruction of the diaries, because that's sure what it looks like, I can't comprehend it. I know it's for the sake of white-washing history to make the church seem wonderful, but that's a repulsive reason. I like the real truth, not lies that want to be truth. It's vile that the church wants to erase very real parts of its short history, or fumble around them at the last minute. Theses diaries--artifacts--are gone now, probably forever. This is how import facts are lost. This is how culture is not only buried, but destroyed. I don't know how to describe this level of deceit.

included reviewing diaries and extracting names and dates, after which the original documents were destroyed. That deceit on the part of the church was instrumental in them both resigning!

ExMoBandB - Can you please create your own post and share everything you learned from those diaries? Especially the abortion and any stories about Smith's polygamy?

That is absolutely fascinating about those diaries. What are the names of these ancestors who wrote the diaries?

Sarah Pratt was left in Nauvoo while her husband, Orson Pratt, went to England as a missionary-apostle (they did that then). According to her, Joseph Smith tried to make her one of h is "spiritual wives" but she refused him. She became friends with John C. Bennett, the Associate President of the Church, at that time. She asked him, one day, why none of the girls that Joseph Smith "married" had gotten pregnant. Bennett went to his horse and pulled from its side sack an abortion instrument, winked, and put it back in the side sack. According to another women, Bennett asked her to be his spiritual wife. She .was already married, and refused. He said not to worry about getting pregnant, because he would give her something that endues abortion. This is THE REASON why the Church guards the private diaries of Nauvoo period Mormons so carefully. During the time of all this, Joseph Smith was publicly preaching against polygamy, calling it "a doctrine of the devil".

I had heard that Horny Joe and Brigham were polygamists long before I joined the cult at 18 years old. HOWEVER, I was told that the marriages were mostly posthumous sealings and TSCC no longer believed in or practiced polygamy, RIGHT!

The first kicker was moving to Utah to attend BYU and finding out there were polygamists all over the place. When I visited St. George with a roommate, he nearly fell over laughing when I asked him how he could tell Women walking down the street were polygamists!

Next, Rulon Allred was shot and killed in Salt Lake and his funeral was covered widely in the press.

Next, John Singer.

Then I read how Fundamentalist LDS were claiming THEY were living celestial marriage and the LDS church had strayed due to political pressure.

Finally, I read Mike Quinn's article of all the polygamist sealing between c.1893 and c. 1911 and the Second Manifesto. Finally it all made sense. The Morg lied about polygamy to keep the practice going after statehood. The Allreds, Barlows, etc were descendants of the families sealed between manifestos.

By this time I knew TSCC was a cult. I fist learned the truth about Horny Joe with No Man Knows My History. That too finally made sense! Joe was one horny fucker who really liked other men's wives. That was so much easier to believe than the Angel with the Sword bullshit! Boner

I always knew about the polygamy as well. My sister-in-law's uncle was Rulon Alred, the murdered polygamist doctor. She is my brother's first sister wife. Many of their grown children are still in plural marriages.

I also knew polygamists from several other groups. Utah does nothing about any of this since it would publicize the situation and make the Mormon church look bad to help the victims or prosecute the perpetrators. Texas doesn't have those problems and thankfully they have Warren Jeffs in a cell.

I was BIC but I didn't know until I was a ysa. I was alway told that started with Brigham.

I never gave it much thought, even as a convert.
Most of the info I had was about Brigham.
I knew JS started polygamy in the LDS Church but just assumed he would practice it as it appeared that many of the leaders did the same thing at the time. I was aware of Emma's comment that she was his only wife, which was true, legally as it polygamy was illegal in Illinois when they first started it. I gave Emma credit for getting the last laugh!

I didn't know the extent of his marriages until I got the book: "In Sacred Loneliness the Plural wives of Joseph Smith " plus the web links I found in the late 90's.

Here...on this site....never paid much attention to the a$$hole growing up. All the polygamy stuff was about BY....

Ron Burr

2011. I was 54

Were you active growing up and did you consider yourself TBM?

See the 4th para. at http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/30/us-mormonchurch-idUSTRE80T1CM20120130

I remember reading that and being completely shocked that the church historian had not told his daughter.

My mother had taught us from when I was really young. I didn't know about JS marrying other men's wives, but I knew he had many, many wives.

I always knew.

As far as I remember, I always knew. I know that I at least knew about Joseph Smith's polygamy when I was a teenager. But part of it might be that I grew up in an area where polygamy was just accepted as the celestial order of marriage. It was common knowledge (and I use the term "knowledge" loosely, of course) that the ban on polygamy was only temporary because of the big meanie federal government, and that it would be reinstated at least during the millennium, if not sooner. It was generally accepted that polygamy would be practiced in the celestial kingdom. I remember at least several discussions about that in Young Women, and I had conversations with my mom about it when I was quite young. I also remember discussing it with friends on occasion.

So since polygamy was generally accepted as the true order of marriage by what seemed like most people that I knew, there was no reason to hide Joseph's polygamy or pretend like it didn't exist.

Listening to the covenant recordings tapes as I was headed to the MTC. But I put it on the shelf. One investigator mentioned it during a discussion. I cognitive dissonanced it out of my mind and did not belive he was a polygamist. 20 year later, i was surfing the web, and it all came back. In spades. I also found out about the BOA. I was done. Unfortunately I am a poser to save my marriage.

I always knew he was a polygamist, so it was never a shock to me. It was more of shock that others in the church did not know.

I first learned in 1998, at 38 years old, after I accumulated many issues with church, and hit the internet looking for answers, and found this site.

Yes, amazing how well the church avoided the subject.

Preaching honesty and all.

OP: Forty-five years old, a bishop, a counselor, a seminary teacher and you didn't know JS was a polygamist? I believe you're an honest man, and I believe what you're saying...in one half of my mind. To the other half of my mind, that just strains credulity. Smith's polygamy is implicit, right in D&C 132. The information is all over there. I found out before the Internet was widespread.

But that's Mormonism for you, just blatantly covering up and the members don't question. Or, they know the truth, like your pain-in-the-ass ward know-it-all, and don't question. If that's not a cult, I don't know what is.

I don't know why I'm shocked at your story (and to be clear, yes, I believe you). In any other church, the membership would run out the door, and if they felt like they still needed God, they'd find another, more comfortable, more transparent church.

Zeniff Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Smith's polygamy is implicit,
> right in D&C 132.

Maybe that's where I got that knowledge from.

Being totally honest here. No reason not to be...

Interesting to see a few that had my exact experience and many more that knew since they were young.

I learned about Joe's many marriages reading "No Man Knows My History" in the early 70s as a nevermo living in SLC. I did not know that many Mormons did not know.

I learned about it in high school reading No Man Knows My History. But I had a hard time believing it. And I figured most must have been posthumous. It didn't really sink in that many were married to other men and some as young as 15 and sex was probably involved. I put it on the shelf I guess. Poor Joseph. It must have been a real trial for him following this commandment.

Who was I to question God, and an angel bearing a flaming sword?

I don't remember when I first heard it, I knew about it for a long time. I guess it was treated as not a big deal, so I was never shocked about it. I don't remember ever believing that it didn't begin until Utah.

I guess I fell for the idea that Mormons were being killed in places like Haun's Mill and the women needed to be taken care of. For a time, I did believe that Smith's additional wives were marriages by the Spirit only, and were not physical.

I didn't know about Joseph's polygamy or any of the ugly things he did until 38 years after I left.

I left because I realized the current prophet, SWK, was a dangerous poisonous fraud.

I grew up in the church, did a mission, active EQ prez, ect and did know until I was 35! I think about how blind I was. Cog diss so strong to make you just ignore anything that is disagreeable to your idea about lds

Since I was a little kid. There were several polygamists in our family tree, so polygamy wasn't a shameful topic. Also, one of my ancestors was posthumously sealed to JS. I was surprised later in life -- like in high school -- to hear friends claim JS wasn't a polygamist. But then I started noticing that the church never mentioned it, leaving members to assume JS was monogamist. However, at the same time, Emma was just a briefly mentioned character in the shadows. After all, I learned later, she had ditched the church, and BY had done a hatchet job on her. But then, about 20 years ago, the church remanufactured Emma into the model of LDS wife-hood -- saint Emma. More than ever, the church failed to mention JS's other wives/concubines.

I didn't mention what I did think of Joseph's marriage to Emma in the original post, but I believe what TSCC taught in that regard is relevant to my question.

What I was taught about Emma was that she was an elect lady and that Joseph worshiped her in every way and that there marriage was a true love affair.

If you asked me about Joseph's married life, this is what I would have recited to you.

I learned about it in youth Sunday school or seminary. It might have even been brought up in priesthood.

However, I was always under the impression he only had a couple of wives. When I heard he had 33 or so, I didn't believe it until later.

One of my friends in this ward was always giving me books like this to read. I really liked this book, but was rather shocked to read about Eliza R. Snow being pregnant with his child and Emma pushing her down the stairs. I was about 30 years old at the time.

I vaguely knew. Then...

At church we were "admonished to study the gospel" and all that. In my quest for LDS perfectionism, I thought they actually meant it.

I reached for B H Robert's History of the Church and realized there was a whole lot of relevant information they selectively didn't teach at church, or in seminary, or in BYU religion classes.

For the first time I saw Joseph Smith for the manipulative charismatic creep he really was.

I studied the gospel all right. I studied myself right out.

Sitting with a sem teacher and his students, discussing LDS doctrine & stuff in a circle. About 4 years ago.

I sat back and listened until the subject of polygamy came up. So I asked if Joseph told Emma of the other ladies.

Seminary students: Yes, he did, of course.

Seminary teacher: Uh, actually, no, he didn't tell her.

Shocked silence. I just had to follow up with, Well, then, he disobeyed Section 132, right?

Answer: Well, you know, he had authority as a prophet...