I left the church 2 years ago and it caused quite the uproar with my wife. I just couldn't hold on anymore and needed to stop pretending. Besides it really bothered me that the church was starting to admit and soft sell all the stuff I was told was just "anti-mormon" jibberish and not to worry about it. So I left... I didn't want to cause any waves. I just didn't want to be a part of the church anymore. I've been married for 18 years and I have 3 great kids. Now my wife has resentment and is extremely bitter toward my decision to leave. It all boils down to not having the Priesthood in the home. I'm blown away by this mentality. She thinks that getting a divorce would be better in the long run because I've now voided our marriage. I'm a great dad and I just can't wrap my arms around the idea of putting my kids through a divorce because of the church.
Anyone have any thoughts or ideas? I've called 2 counselors but my wife will only agree to see a counselor that is Mormon. The last 2 couselors we saw (years ago) she didn't like because they put her on anti-depressants and basically took my side on all the issues.

Man, I am sorry...you fit a cookie cutter of what a lot of us have been through.

It is hard to change her mind. The only thing (in my opinion) you can do since she wont see an unbiased counselor is to tell her you love her and don't want this. Tell her that you can not believe in the church because you KNOW it is false. If she wants to go to a LDS counselor, ask her why a non LDS counselor will not do (or why the LDS one is better qualified..my ex did the same stunt).

I wish I had more to offer. The priesthood in the home thing is just another level of the onion. She has been told her whole life the world is flat.. it is going to take a lot of love and patience to show her otherwise.. Even then it might not be enough. It will be next to impossible if her family is LDS and is talking in her ear (experience talking)...

this breaks my heart as my father and mother got divorced because my father left the church. My mom remarried 3 months later to a "worthy" priesthood leader that turned out to be a child molester, and our lives were hell.

Your wife is under the false misconception that she has lost the 'eternal' marriage and in the grand scheme of the eternities, it is better to fix things now than continue to be married to someone she cannot have for eternities.

What I write is bold and painful, but it is the truth. She feels she will automatically find someone better because they will hold the priesthood. It is an awful misconception and a family destroying way of thinking. She will find nothing and no one better, she may even do grave harm in her way of thinking.

The only thing I can suggest, if you are looking for any suggestions, is to state the obvious. Forget about telling her you do not go to church because you do not believe any more. Bringing something negative about the church (even if true) will be aggravating. Instead, focus on the real problem at hand, your marriage.

Remind her that:
you love her, that has not changed
you are a great father and love your children, that has also not changed
you do not want a divorce, as you made a commitment to her and your family, that has not changed


The only thing that has changed is your views on the church, but that you will respect her choice to believe, and would like her to respect your choice not to believe.

All else remains the same, and considering that, a divorce is not warranted. Reasonable people do not get divorced because a spouse no longer holds the priesthood, if they remain a good husband, a good man, and a good father. You need to point blank point that out to her.

I don't know what else to say, unfortunately I have seen the church tear families apart. I don't understand why anyone would stop loving their partners and spouse because of a change in belief, that does not involve a change in feeling for them, or a change of behavior towards the children and family.

The problem is, if she is determined to find someone else, some man who will be her free ticket to the CK, you likely will have no choice in the matter. Deep down, that is what she wants and feels betrayed about. I have seen it happen more than once.

In most states, if someone wants out, a divorce is granted. In other words, you cannot force her to stay married to you, at least I highly doubt it.

And also, there are some bishops actually counseling people to leave those spouses who have become apostates. It really has happened to a few people I know. I live in SLC, so I have seen this before several times.

My bishop did not counsel my ex H. to leave me, but when I left the church my now ex-H could not love me anymore, and 2 years later we divorced. He did not want to look like the bad guy in the eyes of our kids or the church ( my bishop actually counseled him to stay with me), so he just made my life a living hell until I finally filed. Life with him became unbearable. He rejected me for god, basically.

I really do feel for you. You are in a difficult place, as you are still raising your kids, and so would have to deal with a custody battle. Our kids had left home by then.

Best of luck to you. Maybe just really let her know how much you love her and your kids by your actions, and maybe she will be reasonable. But be prepared, this has happened to many of us.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/17/2011 03:24AM by think4u.

There is no good reason, in the LDS doctrine, for her to divorce you in this life. She has obtained a sealing, and she should honor it as from god, if she hopes to obtain the blessing. If after this life it becomes clear you cannot be her priesthood companion, then god will be happy to give her to another more worthy. So what is her rush?

It's only a piddly few years she has to endure it well. In doing so, she honors her god, her family and all the years of shared work you have performed.

Her push to divorce sounds like a manipulation at best, a tantrum, or even a punitive ego trip, to me.

hello Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is no good reason, in the LDS doctrine, for
> her to divorce you in this life. She has obtained
> a sealing, and she should honor it as from god, if
> she hopes to obtain the blessing. If after this
> life it becomes clear you cannot be her priesthood
> companion, then god will be happy to give her to
> another more worthy. So what is her rush?
>
> It's only a piddly few years she has to endure it
> well. In doing so, she honors her god, her family
> and all the years of shared work you have
> performed.
>
> Her push to divorce sounds like a manipulation at
> best, a tantrum, or even a punitive ego trip, to
> me.


Hello, I could not agree more! I don't understand the push for the divorce because OP left the church. Even after couples get divorce, the church TELLS women not to worry, because they HAVE the blessings of a sealing and in the next life they will be given to a 'worthy priesthood holder'.

So, MRS. Family4ever was married in the temple, she has the blessings of the 'sealing' and she has no reason for divorce even under church teachings.

Sad thing is, many church leaders will (not always) council her to leave. I do think she is being punitive.

I am sorry for what you are dealing with. It is a shame when people love their "church" more than their spouse. Are any of your kids older- like 15, 16?? If so I would sit them down and have a frank discussion with them. Let them know you are no different than before....but won't do the Mormon stuff in the home or go to "church". Be as honest but gentle with them as you can be. It seems that it is over, since she will only see a Mormon counselor. She appears to be unable to compromise or accept you as anything but a MORMON.

I also like the idea of putting this back on her....she is not honoring her committment. And heck....in the afterlife if she prefers someone else so be it. But you will be with your kids.

I hate this disgusting cult. My parents only married each other because they were both mormon. They have little in common and never really had a spark between them.

One of them ceased to believe and they've been arguing about it for the last 40 years.

Every weekend was miserable for us children because church was such a bone of contention. There was no way for us to please both parents.

To top it off, when we went to church we were told that ours was not a "forever family" because one parent did not attend church and smoked and drank coffee.

All I wanted was to be a good little girl who could live in Heaven with her family one day. The church and my parents took away my hope and happiness.

I'm happy now by the way - my husband and I are both out of the cult and living the dream!

All the best to you and your family.

all comments well said.Life is about conviction in the word
of truth (the bible) if we really want to honor god and his
word than accept FEELING and OCCULT beliefs about eternal
marrige to edge us on, who we choose to marry etc.
As SOON as we wake up to the real truth be it the word
unless we turn athiest and thats ok also, anything is
better than the bullshit control of mormonism that a spouse
could love the church and heed to the bishop more than the
husband and devoice him because he sees through the bullshit.
Its like a disney empire of celestial glory and fuck you
if you dont believe I'm going there and need my eternal
fucker husband, the god of eternal procreation stuffed
in me for ever baby, and your shit mr husband if you
fail to live up to that most wonderful eternal plan
of bullshit occult exalatation.

makes me angry that little miss mormon molly can
devoice her husband because he finally got a brain
and she stayed dumb ass mormon moron girl who knows no better
and doesnt know real love to dump a good man, a good father
maybe good provider also...

Stupid little bitch, but it does take two to tango
and for me, devoice I was, because the bishops advice
was more important.

Larry australia.

You could always go along to the Mormon counsellor with your wife and share your knowledge during the session. It might open her eyes.

You must also bear in mind that it is you who has changed. You are not what your wife thought you were, so you shouldn't be surprised that she no longer views you in the same way.

I don't think this one has a happy ending...

Everybody changes over time. Just because your spouse changes does not automaticaly give the other an easy out.

Tell her to read D. Michael's Quinn's two books about the Mormon hierarchy. In the first one, he says that women have had the priesthood since 1843 via the endowment but on July 29, 1947, the assholes in Salt Lake told the Relief Society for the women to seek priesthood blessings from men, not other women. So she DOES have the priesthood! I hope this helps.

Mav is right for most women. And I like so many here, feel your pain.

But in my case, a highly manipulative & plotting ex, used the threat of divorce just to get me back in line.

When I finally acceded to the divorce threat, she pulled a 180-dimer. She really didn't want the divorce. She just wanted to use it, as well as threatening to take the kids or turn them against me, as a means to keep me in her control on every aspect of life: family/kids relationships, church, hobbies, even job choices.

In the end, once I recognized her manipulation tactics, I refused to allow them further success. She escalated to bizarre levels that had and still has many scratching their heads.

If your wife is normal, she is already talking with a divorce atty. If she is threatening to manipulate, she probably is plotting.

lulu Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> n/t


Re: See a lawyer, do NOT move out of the house, keep the kids.

AMEN!

If she is really planning to divorce you, get yourself prepared. She will try everything to get the kids away from you. Because you are now Stan's Spawn. Read this: (even if it is overly harsh towards women--most TBM wives filing become this bitch)

http://www.dadsdivorce.com/father_divorce_forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=13374

Look at the forums too.

She wants a divorce? Point to the door and tell her that she's free to leave at any time. You will even pay for her apartment, utilities, food, etc.

Of course, this assumes that you're out of the morridor, and in a location where a judge will give you a fair shake.

you just found out what she really thinks of you.
& to think she is offended over the deal.
you were her date to the dance
and being part of the dance was far more important than being with you. she puts more stock in what all the OTHER stupid ass braind MORmON men & women think than what you think.That says a lot right there. only a real MORmON would need or want a hag like that!

It'd be interesting to see what an LDS counselor would counsel. Would s/he recommend divorce in this situation? Counsel you to fast and pray to regain your testmonkey (surely not)? Or try to help your wife work through her problems with your departure? Has anyone on the board ever gone to an LDS counselor in this situation? I'd like to hear how they handle it.

mly Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It'd be interesting to see what an LDS counselor
> would counsel. Would s/he recommend divorce in
> this situation? Counsel you to fast and pray to
> regain your testmonkey (surely not)? Or try to
> help your wife work through her problems with your
> departure? Has anyone on the board ever gone to
> an LDS counselor in this situation? I'd like to
> hear how they handle it.


Yes, our first counselor was LDS-SS. I was still in the closet about doubts. The counselor was awful. He used the basis of the gospel as therapy, rather than look at root psychological issues as the primary cause. That is, not living the gospel creates the situation. To him, it was not boundary issues (we both had) or her controlling or my enabling/codependency. What was our sin? well, my sin: not praying or doing enough family home evening or reading scriptures with the wife enough. I was not magnifying my calling or head of household role enough. The latter is actually somewhat true. Had I been stronger and told my ex to stop being so controlling much earlier, perhaps it would have worked out. (Though I am happier without her.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/17/2011 09:55AM by Jesus Smith.

even in the closet as a doubter. That's +2 for you with DW. I have heard of this kind of thing happening. And it is usually good news for the marriage.

she somehow might feel rejected when you rejected the church/
it IS possible it was difficult to be around all the anger (whenyou found out about the church)

Mormon girls are taught to be conflict avoidant. conflict confrontation anger escalation argumentation- is aversive very very very aversive

it is NOT just 'conflictis of the ' or 'i dont' feel the s' it is FAR more than that- being around some one's discontent- beingthe object or hearer the receiver the experiencer of someone's discontent as they disconnect--- their anger when they de idealize a life they used to believe in, or their disillusionment when they they find everything they worked for- is not what it seemed the church the rules are not satisfying.
Do you know anything about anger? expressions of discontent?

right, well, they create disconnect. & ifthey are expressed- count the minutes the days the hours the times filled with the verbal expressing of them- the logic the logic arguments rhetoric ad nauseum. that's all expressive of WHY or persuasive reasonsing- it is NOT what you think or what it seems because emotionally, it DISTANCES you from if it is NOT MUTUALly satisfying.

all that expression or persuasion or even quiet after someone explained their way was right ---

how many movies & beaches and dances & great loving statements that would make her fall in love or feel love

have been BALANCING? some counselor once wrote, you have to fill the tank or something like invest in the emotional bank so like the scale of things that hurt/distance stays in balance with things that show love.

those past expressions of conflict or argument may have overly invested in the negative side of the couples-emotional bank, to make it go even or back to blank, balance the scale. do not make that person be the person hearing or rehearing each argument, or publically hearing only more argument, show some support find ways to communicate love again- to balance the scale

SOS ! so when someone tries to persuade you, and wants you to agree or follow him again(after all, he's been the man / priesthood holder) & he gives reasons, articles, ideas, books, logic rhetoric, persuasion- in conversation after conversation

and he doesn't approve of you- he's angry about the church, life, now you not agreeingwith him. argument and persuasion follow you all the time- he's angry. now he's mad again because you can't agree with him.

that anger about the church he's been experiencing & expressing- where does it go? who hears it most?

where has life's fun gone? so who are you? who are you now? where has the fun gone?


some counselors meeting an angry man would immediately descalate him & attempt to disconnect him from the object he is experssing his anger with (they fear too often a intimate relationship may be the fulcrum or venting point of life's angers during that waking up) and often recommend separation when there is an angry partner- they may not know you or the church issue or anything- they just see that you disagree and you argue certainly or want to make someone else agree- and their red flags fall & they won't do anything at all to teach you communication skills or reconnecting skills or reconcilaiation routines - if they see a legal risk or fear spousal abuse in escalation, or they hav a background in offender counseling or abuse/victim cylces... you wouldn't even have a chance someone with background keeping you together
SO invested in safety first, & taught response looking for emotional phsyical body language conflict statements to identify a victim of the other's anger- and bounce. you . apart. its for some counselors training- legal safety, victim saftey, always salvaging safety first- and a routine skills to triage for safety first...not relationship triage.

so select that counselor well if you want to relationship routine and communication coaching. Phone and SAY: "I need help communicating. I need relationship coaching. I need help expressing my love in posative ways again and building that bridge if we can. I want help putting the anger and rough times in the past even though we disagree. can you possibly help me or give me a reference so somebody who speacializes in this?"

One might guess that anger over the morg-fraud has been expressed and anger is very distancing. If you want someone to go away, you definitely show anger! Unfortunately, when we display anger, even the ones we love and want to understand and support us, they pull back, too.

It would have been better in the beginning if you had let your actual true feelings show: intense grief and sadness over the waste of time, effort, and money, and the great fear of your beloved children following the same narrow path. If you had laid on the couch and cried, she would have been right at your side. She probably includes herself in your anger at the morg and doesn't know what to do except try to get the status quo back.

Perhaps you could channel all the anger into tears and draw her closer to you in that way. No anger; just sadness (not for the end of the marriage, but about the lies of the morg). Underneath anger is hurt and sadness,so it's there if you can express it.

Change this and you might change the whole dynamic.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/17/2011 11:44AM by Adult of god.

My wife was starting down that road when I wrote her a love letter. Bascially describing how much I loved her and that she was made for me and that I in no way wanted her to leave our relationship.

I added one line at the bottom, "Please understand what I would think was so important as to risk our marrage and read some of the things I have laid out for you." I had personal research about 176 pages and Grant Plamers book on my bedside table.

About two days later she was out with me.

Anubis

I've said plenty on this subject before--but I'm just wondering, do they realize that the kids are still sealed to you whether you believe or not? That by finding another priesthood holder, it isn't giving her an "intact" family?

I have some friends who got divorced--husbands were cheating and were excommunicated. When they filed for temple divorces, they were told that the sealings of the children to their bio fathers would stay intact even though the fathers had been excommunicated.

The only way for her to have an intact family is to ENDURE TO THE END--which WAS taught endlessly when I was young. LIke I've stated before, if one of your children loses belief in the LDS church, is she going to divorce them, too? It makes NO SENSE.

2 years went by, and now the reason she wants a divorce is because there is no priesthood in the home?

Check her computer for emails with worthy priesthood holders.

You didn't void the marriage. The imaginary sealing for the after life is voided in her mind.

I'm probably way too suspicious, but I'm going along with Bob... she is up to something.

Divorce her, split all you stuff up, and get on with your life. I have a jaundiced view on this subject as you can see.

Just sayin'...

Ron

Do they believe that Paul in the Bible was speaking for the Lord or was he just giving his opinion as a man? "we believe the Bible to be the word of God......"

This is quite clear. If the un-believer "you" are willing to stay married to the believer "the wife" then god says the believer is not to leave.


The Legitimacy Of Marriage Between A Christian And An Unbeliever: 1 Corinthians 7:12-16

To “the rest” Paul (as an inspired apostle whom the Lord counted trustworthy and who had the Spirit of God, v. 25, 40) applies Matthew 19:6, 9 and explains that marriage between a Christian and an unbeliever is indeed a legitimate marriage. At no time in this passage does the inspired apostle urge the Christian who is married to an unbeliever to depart (divorce) because his or her mate is an unbeliever. Indeed, the Lord's will is that they remain together as Matthew 19:5-6 instructs.


So, if the unbeliever is content or willing to live with a Christian, the Christian is commanded not to depart, for the Christian brings a sanctifying influence and life into the home (v. 14; cf. 1 Pet. 3:1-2).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/17/2011 07:49PM by AmIDarkNow?.