I cannot seem to escape other people telling me that what I believe (or don't believe) is not what I say it is.

Example: When I was TBM, I claimed to be Christian. Most non-Mormons contended I was NOT Christian, and proceeded to define Christian in a way that would preclude my admittance into that club. I always used the dictionary definition: "A person who believes in Jesus Christ."

Example 2: I am now an atheist. Now, many people try to tell me that I am not really an atheist because I don't define atheism the way they want me to. Again, I use the dictionary definition: "A person who lacks belief in the existence of God or gods."

But because I am not a "strong" atheist, (asserting that there is no god) but am a "weak or soft" atheist, (lacking belief in the existence of God), I am often accused of being agnostic, which we all know is something entirely different.

Why, no matter what views I hold, do so many insist on trying to tell me what I believe or don't believe? It's gotten to the point of being comical.

The arguments and name calling seem to follow now matter where I go.

Do others find this to be true as well?

I'm sort of a practical atheist. People tell me what religious stuff I should believe in, and I reply, "I don't believe that."

Because it's not really about a thinly sliced definition of atheism. It's that I reject what they value. After all, they don't question my disbelief in things they also disbelieve, like Islam, for example.

When they ask me what I DO believe, I reply that I believe all religion is man-made and that I'm doing just fine without any of it.

I think that's the problem with labels in general. Words are meaningless until we give them meaning. People define a word based on their own understanding of and experience with the word, sometimes unaware that there may be countless interpretations of that word.

I get the same thing when I say I believe in "God." People immediately begin making assumptions about me and attributing all kinds of attributes to the "God" of my belief that are not accurate. They do so because that is their own experience with the term "God." That's why I try to avoid the label.

That's why when Carl Sagan was asked, "Do you believe in God?" He replied, "Define your terms."

I'm in the minority here, but my solution is to reject being labelled, and to resist self-labelling. What's funny, there are a few atheists here that will then go and label me for me ("you're either this or your that, etc"). But it really isn't for me, it's for themselves and their own needs, which they are welcome to.

Labels are social constructs, they don't exist in reality. If you find them troublesome, reject them.

That's half a cent for ya.

Human

when talking to Mormons, when they challenge me to prove that God doesn't exist, I just tell them I don't have proof. But I don't believe THEIR proof.

Then, I change the subject and say that I think there IS proof that Mormonism is false. That usually ends the conversation and we start talking about the weather or football.

Works every time.

"when talking to Mormons, when they challenge me to prove that God doesn't exist, I just tell them I don't have proof. But I don't believe THEIR proof."

Thank you for that one. I never knew what to say when someone asks for proof that God doesn't exist. It's such a ridiculous thing to say and I could care less about providing proof, so I really like your answer.

Belief really doesn't matter a lot. What you do is far more important than whatever creed you carry around with you.

If you are not actively participating in some religion, does it really matter if you believe in something or not?

I live in a world and interact with people who think it DOES matter what I believe or don't believe. I choose to live in the world interacting with them. For some reason, I find it to be more fulfilling than avoiding them. :)

But to answer your question, no. It doesn't really matter what I believe if you get right down to it. It's just a random observation of what I think is the human mind's need to categorize the world around it in order to understand it.

Being a "soft" atheist seems to make people too uncomfortable. Too hard to categorize for some to understand.

I'm fine with my "nothingness".

I don't know, Dude, but I've gotten to the point where I don't care any more. I know what I am and what I'm not. I know what it means to me.

I've gone beyond caring about what other people think of it now.

Damnit Doug! I have a box that I made for you, with a label that I made using my new label maker. Why won't you just get in the bloody box already!?

If you don't get in the box my world will be full of grey areas and chaos. What if I drill some holes in the box so that you can breathe? ;-)

my dear wife masquerading as an exmo on this board? :) This is exactly the kind of smart ass thing she'd say! Ha!

And yes, unfortunately, I think we all climb into boxes each and every day of our lives...work, home, spiritual, social, etc. Sometimes we make them ourselves, some we accept as made by others.

And you know what, I suppose that's ok, as long as we are happy.

Doug

You're in luck Doug, I'm not your wife. But that also means that there are two smart ass women in the world. ;-)

The original comment was intended to be a humorous observation on the fact that some people don't seem to be satisfied until they've successfully boxed in and labelled other people.

I doubt they do it for your benefit and it's more likely that they do it because something about your resistance to conform to their ideas unsettles something in them.

Also, it's one thing to happily jump into a box of your own making and an entirely different thing to be shoved into a box of someone else's making. :-)

Even Neil deGrasse Tyson uses an unflattering definition of "atheist". I was so disappointed when I heard it come from his own lips!

http://youtu.be/CzSMC5rWvos

I actually like his explanation. He's avoiding the label because of all the baggage and connotative meaning that follows it and that he might disagree with.

It's always best to have a conversation "in real time" as he says. Words alone are far from perfect. But face-to-face conversations allow for immediate feedback and nonverbal expression that can more accurately depict someone's belief system than a label.

He was careful to talk about "active atheists" and to talk about the activities of such. I can respect that.

However, I disagree with his questioning for the need for a word describing the someone who doesn't and using a golf as an example.

Historically, people people who didn't play golf were not killed or punished. Playing golf or not does not make a difference between in political careers. Nor does a physical activity rise to the level of one's core beliefs, and even if it were to, no one is saying that non-golfers must do so in order to become air force officers.

Thanks for that, wcg.

I agree with him, and was heartened by the way he put it, especially with the idea of non-skiers or non-golfers gathering to discuss their lack of something. It put good words to something I myself have found odd about active atheists.

theists cannot stand knowing that you have not bought into their crap so they will make lame excuses as to why you are not an Atheist.

It's like mormons claiming that you cannot be happy unless you are a mormon.

Most people who practice a religion or a spiritual path do not give half a f*** what atheists do or don't believe. People are too busy living their own lives to worry much about the private details of anyone else's.

Um (respectfully of course) that's horse biscuits.

People who believe routinely, desperately, obsessively want to know what other people believe.

(And then they cast aspersions and sling judgments on any who, even slightly, believe differently than they do.)

It's seems to me to be a need for delusion reinforcement.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhagzSEXzic

I have a TBM friend, who gave a sacrament talk or fast and testimony (don't remember anymore) and part of it was about a significant disagreement they had with a friend over the details surrounding the fall of adam and the garden of eden. It jeopardized their friendship and my friend was grateful for the understanding the gospel gives us on this important subject...

Believers care what others believe and make a big deal out of it. Even if it's something that supposedly happened thousands of years ago to common ancestors we've never met and has about zero relevance in living your daily life....

Not to mention that adam and eve are a lot older than many want to admit.

http://www.nature.com/news/genetic-adam-and-eve-did-not-live-too-far-apart-in-time-1.13478

I've seen Mormons splitting heirs over atheism.

That's funny.

I don't even care what kind of atheist I am. Why should anyone else?

It's a never-ending argument. It's just as ridiculous and tiresome as religions arguing about who's a Christian and who's not.

He has to walk fine line but I dont see him betraying his principles.
He can't be as radical as Maher.

Husband: what i believe is my own business. now if I choose to bring it up..

Asked husband: how do you keep others or yourself from discussing what you believe instead of what you do in the here and now?
Husband: "i tell them what I'm doing in my labs and ask them questions about how schoolis going for them, how their classes are. I direct folks to conversations to whats going on in tgeir real lives. What's happening "

He was a convert so maybe he knows how
Hope this helps

I personally don't feel the need to discuss my religious beliefs (other than on boards like this one). If somebody asks a question about my beliefs I will usually answer them as tersely as possible. The other day someone asked me which ward I went to and my response to them was that I was not LDS. I also don't let other people try to define or set the terms of my beliefs and I don't put a label on them. I believe what I believe and if that fits into somebodys definition of atheist or agnostic then they can think of me as atheist or agnostic but I don't really care.

Perhaps you could refer to yourself at a Popeyetheist. When it comes to belief in a god, "I yam what I yam."

I actively disbelieve every god that has ever reveled itself to me.

I passively disbelieve every god that has never reveled itself to me.

I passively believe that there might be something that I could consider to be god.

I actively believe that I am right.



I think that makes me a metheist.

It gets to be downright silly sometimes when we think we have some need to define our world view in terms that satisfy someone else.

I've tried many times to put my general world view in some kind of terms, but the fact is, it's just not possible.

I like a lot of ideas, don't want to be pigeonholed and want to be able to continue to try out more without someone finding fault with that.

I'm not concerned about what is right or wrong about an idea. It's just a idea. Sometimes just a thought. We have thousands of thoughts - some we believe and some we don't.

I'd rather be known as a variety of things: fun, kind, happy, positive, appreciative, grateful, and so on.

I don't need to define my world view.