We debate fairly frequently about whether the General Authorities really believe in Mormonism or not. Are they sincere, do they know it's all a fraud and are just in it for the money and prestige? Who is most likely to be faking and who is most likely to be sincerely deluded?

But it seems like the General Relief Society Presidency, YW Presidency and Primary Presidency - (known to the GA's as "those womenfolk") all seem like they actually believe the crippling, harmful b.s. they spew to their fellow women. They may teach some good things but those principles are hand-in-glove with things that break women and remake them into Stepford Wife style Mormon puppets. But with the exception of Shari Dew, I'm not sure they are in it entirely for the prestige and power, although they probably enjoy it. They seem truly brainwashed, unable to question what they were taught all their lives, incapable of thinking critically about what they are saying and how women will be affected by it. Their whole goal seems to be to make compliant Barbies out of every type of woman in attendance but not for the money - because they actually believe they are right. It almost reminds me of female circumcision and how the women are as complicit in getting it performed on their daughters as the men are. Because they believe it is necessary and right and none of them stop to think "Hey - WTF?"

I am sure they do exist, but I bet to a woman they are all married to men who are very heavily invested in Mormonism, and walking away would be difficult

Well yeah, where's probably a few who don't believe but pretend to for their families. I reckon most believe though. If they all didn't believe, we'd know about it by now.

Hans Mattsson spent years as an Area Seventy and he fully believed the whole time.

I think they do believe. Putting it in perspective, the teachings of tscc are rather attractive to some women...teaching that man takes care of the woman, woman gets to play house forevermore, husband will love her forevermore happily ever after. The women & men who live out this fantasy are in a deluded state of reality, but it works for some...and the General Auxiliary Leaders (GALs, haha) are happy in their dream world.

Can't help wondering if Joe Smith designed tscc doctrines to be so attractive to women...to attract more women to tscc.

I asked her, "what is the purpose of the general board?" Her answer, "To be bored in general!" Regrettably I have lost touch with her.

Sounds like she had a good sense of humor.

I think you hit the nail on the head. I mentioned in another thread that my son really hates the YW program because of how he sees his LDS friends that are girls dumb down compared to his non-LDS friends. One of the girls he went to a formal dance with told him she can't wait to get married so she can have a man take care of her, make all her decisions for her and tell her what to think about things. This because my son asked her opinion about something that was on the news. They were 16 at the time. She's an adorable blonde, already well-versed in that Mormon woman sticky sweet voice. She will probably find some Mormon guy to fill that role for her and hopefully not wake up one day and wonder what the hail went wrong with her life.

A friend who was attending a Utah college complained to me about that. He had met several girls who were running up huge college loan debt. Their plan was to marry some guy and have him pay off their loans. He said their mothers encouraged this strategy. I'm not sure if they even planned to finish college. My friend graduated and married a Latina nevermo he met online.

When my high school boyfriend got back from his mission, I only had one more year of college left. His mother actively campaigned for us to get together on the platform - "By the time you are married, she will almost be done college and then she can work and put you through school." Seriously, I was like a federal grant opportunity for her son. Not that we were a cute couple or got along well or even that I was a good Molly Mo. I just had the most education and earning potential of any of the girls he knew and marrying me would be a good way to pay for college.

I declined that joy and he married another girl and never did finish college. Years later, his wife found out the truth about the church, helped all her kids escape and they divorced. I'm dying to know if he left her because she left the church (he's exactly that type) because if so, being a cash cow wasn't the only bullet I dodged.

Do they get paid or, as they euphemistically call it, get a living allowance? My honest opinion is it's either about ego, fear of losing their families or just a lack of imagination that anything else could be true. So, like a mafia wife who knows their "spouse" (i.e. the church) might be up to something, they turn a blind eye to what's really going on. Because they are proud of their lifestyle and the way people look up to them. Or because they are afraid they or their kids will be in danger if they make waves - or that their cash cow spouse will live them destitute. Or they just don't have the education or experience to live in the real world so they just hang on tighter, hoping for the best.

True, if they're receiving a "living allowance" they would have reason to feign a testimony...but those women at the podium each Gen Conference do seem so passionate & sincere that I really think they believe. Also, there's quite a high turnover of auxiliary leaders as compared to the men who stay in the general presidencies for a lifetime. Ever seen a woman in a gen auxiliary presidency grow old and die? Me either.

Perhaps men's consciences are less troubled when lying for the lord than a woman's conscience would be. Perhaps if/when women aux leaders lose their testimonies they are gently released from their callings and away from public awareness.

My question is: is there a religion that is not a fraud on some level?

Aren't they all about mythology with metaphysical, supernatural, visionary claims of some sort of deity and or savior that continue to draw people in as part of their heritage?

Aren't their traditions and rituals just ways to bringing meaning into people's lives that are carried out for generations and given importance to the believers?

Show me one religion that is based on factual evidence that will hold up in a court of law. I don't think they exist.

Yeah, but religion is like alcohol. There is beer and then there is hard core vodka. The effects will be different on different people, depending on what you are consuming and how much. Some people can tolerate a little religion and be fine, others will behave like monsters, others take too much religion and make stupid decisions because they aren't thinking clearly. Mormonism would be more of a "hard-core liquor" religion, with more potential for damage, than say Buddhism, which is more of a beer because it's less controlling and more about the individual (from what I know but I'm not expert.)

And that's not even really touching on your point - should anyone be drinking religion in the first place? But some people really believe, no matter what God they follow. The question is do the leaders sincerely believe or are they faking it. Whether religion is worth believing in or not is too big a question for this thread but often discussed on the board.

I have often compared the effects of the mormon religion to those inserts that come with prescription drugs. It may have some positive effects for some, but it may do irreparable damage to others.

wastedtime Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have often compared the effects of the mormon
> religion to those inserts that come with
> prescription drugs. It may have some positive
> effects for some, but it may do irreparable damage
> to others.


Who said religion is the opium of the people? Yup. Karl Marx.

And here we are, so called enlightened human beings, still trying to figure out what do do about this life we lead and find something worthwhile!

what to do? Which god to believe in and why? What is important, and what gives us the most meaning and joy and where do we find out bliss?

It's the age old question.

And so it goes!

Hey, let's give some credit to Karl Marx. He didn't call religion the "opium" of the people, he called it the "opiate" of the people. The context of the entire passage was that capitalism and the leaders of society were so vicious and brutal to the people they needed an opiate as a palliative, a pain-killer. His point was, remove the ruthless destruction of the people and their need for opiates would go away as well.

MCR



However it is quoted, it's a translation. The point is made that religion provided a distraction from actual reality. That's my view anyhow.

I don't need or want a religious dogma, a list of religious requirements, or anything of the sort. I don't need a deity or savior to live a fulfilled life. Been there done that. Changed my mind! :-)

Wow, Suzie. Dropping the boom.

I agree

Well said, Suzie, and the implications are profound.

My friends mother is on RSP.

She is a true, true TBM. Family is. There is so much Mormon baggage in their lives I don't think it can be unwound without some serious scarring. But that's the same for all if us wasn't it?

They wanted to see their kids in various countries, so do the "fireside speaking tour" but Then sleep on his couch to save the Morg money.

There is a gravy train, but they aren't on it. fwiw.

They really are chosen by "inspiration". As in, a very narrow selection is made of 50 odd safe women with all the right credentials. Mission president wife, etc.

They think they are invited to a think tank, meet and greet, talk about issues.

This lady didn't know it was a selection night. She said she couldn't not make strong comments and was involved more than the others.

The president liked her attitude (be it fundo or progressive or whatever it was I don't know her) prayed about it submitted the name to the mem who prayed about it and accepted It and she got called

I'd say every person in that chain was a true believer.

I think only the longer serving apostles know it's all a lie.

From what I have heard, it doesn't sound like the women in general leadership get the financial benefits the way the men do. For one, they don't serve for life and for two, they aren't actually in charge of any of the business side of the org. As for knowing the truth, I suspect all of them are likely TBM. Unlike the men, they have no priesthood and can't really make decisions for their own org without a mans approval so they would have no way of telling the difference between being a ward RSP or being on the RSP of the entire church. No matter what they always have to defer to a man.

A man could reasonably expect to actually see God if he were a GA (as its often hinted that the upper echelon of the priesthood gets direct communication from elohim) so when they get there and don't actually ever see the big man, they have to start to wonder. No women would ever expect that no matter what level of leadership she is in.

Which is another form of deception for secretive NOM closet male members