I've been out of Utah since 1996. THe more I've read about the CULT (and I've read a LOT of items, the more I believe that the Salt Lake Valley (entire Wasatch range area especially featuring Orem, prove, Lehi etc. is evil. I don't necessarily mean a demon or devil or some sort running things. I mean that culters there do evil things to other people and to themselves. They are destroying themselves. The evil is palpable in Utah now. I can't/won't go there.
I'm in trouble with my mom-in-law now for being unwilling to go to Utah. Mom-in law is NOT TBM. She is Catholic. Her daughter living with her is TBM but she is burning black candles in the basement and doing spells on people. She has the Masonic compass drawn on the floor and the five pointed star (the one that is all over the temple.) She is doing incantations etc. terrifying the family. Mom in law is trying to counteract the evil force with Holy water which she throws all over the house. Visitors who come there end up running out of the house screaming and will not come back. One got thrown across the lawn by an unseen force.
I got screwed over so bad in Utah that I will not go back. Does anyone else feel this way? I would actually rather visit Baghdad instead than Utah.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/01/2014 02:40AM by verilyverily.

I think you're waxing hyperbolic that you'd rather go to Baghdad Iraq then Salt Lake.

Listen, I've got no more love for the cult than the next person but I can still recognize that Salt Lake and the surrounding mountains is gorgeous country and if it weren't swarming with Mormons I'd love to live there.

Baghdad is an exciting diverse place full of love and understanding compared to Utah. Baghdad makes Utah look like some kind of Utah.

I live in Colorado so I have mountains and breathtaking scenery without the cult horror. The poisonous atmosphere created by Utah's theocracy makes it impossible to live there.
I'm sure that if you look at certain mountains from a certain angle even in Dante's Inferno, they are pretty for a while anyway.

Abbadon, you might want to try Colorado. It has gorgeous mountains and beautiful country without the horror of the cult dragging everything down into hell with it.

verilyverily Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I live in Colorado so I have mountains and
> breathtaking scenery without the cult horror. The
> poisonous atmosphere created by Utah's theocracy
> makes it impossible to live there.
> I'm sure that if you look at certain mountains
> from a certain angle even in Dante's Inferno, they
> are pretty for a while anyway.
>
> Abbadon, you might want to try Colorado. It has
> gorgeous mountains and beautiful country without
> the horror of the cult dragging everything down
> into hell with it.

Colorado is a beautiful place too.

Absolutely loved Durango and Silverton.

I lived in Durango for about a year and been up to Silverton. Like many Colorado tourist towns (I grew up in one) there is a quite a bit of income inequality. The saying goes, "In Durango, you either don't have to work at all, or you work 5 jobs to get by."

If you work at a restaurant or any one of the tourism industries, you better pray and hope that it's a good season, because otherwise you're living on Top Ramen for the winter. Affordable rent? Only if you live way outside of town. The last affordable area for non-students was sold and torn down.
Several local employers seem to think that labour and public health laws don't apply to them and they rely on the naivete of students to flout these laws.

Most of the tourists are some of the worst I've ever deal with- They're rude, entitled, obnoxious, and oblivious to basic safety.

Despite all this, I still love Durango and would live there again, especially now that I can have job skills outside the tourist industry.

I've lived in Provo off and on since I was 18.. It has good stuff and shitty stuff too, just like anywhere else. Living happily anywhere has more to do with personal attitudes, IMO.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/02/2014 09:12AM by Itzpapalotl.

I've been to Salt Lake twice in the last 20 years and enjoyed it both times. It's cleaner and more scenic than most cities. There's also a nice balance between Mormon and "gentile" influence there.

I also like Provo to a degree, but I don't want to go there and remind myself of how repressive I found BYU. The suffocating "wards," "quorums," and "families," the arrogant administrators, the passive-aggressive professors who think they're too good to be stuck at BYU...I'm still sick of thinking about it. I don't want to go back.

I have lived in the Salt Lake area most of my life. Please don't put down my beautiful city. It isn't evil, or even predominantly LDS. According to Wikipedia, 34-41% of Salt Lakers are Mormons. And while other, more rural (or Provo/Orem) parts of the state are generally LDS, there is some diversity here. It is thriving and growing. There is a very active LGBT community, for example. Utah is right smack-dab in the middle of some of the greatest concentration of natural beauty too.

If you consider that 66% of all Mormons are inactive, the number of active Mormons in SLC is much smaller than even the numbers you are using. :)

It's funny though, many of the Mormons from Utah call Las Vegas and San Francisco evil.

Maybe you and them have something in common in your judgments.

>Does anyone else feel this way?
Sorry for your experience in Utah...
To me there's no place better to live...
But I got none of your experiences living there.
Utah's atmosphere is a little poisonous, but not when you can live above it.
There's few landscapes of America can compete with Utah...
It's all in the eyes of beholder.

Sorry, I don't feel the same. The very few Mormons in my life tend to shut themselves away from the rest of us and have almost zero impact in my day to day routine. SLC is the exmo capitol of the world and that is what my social life tends to reflect. This place has a pretty good vibe depending on what groups you spend your time with.

Also, I don't really feel like black candles and stars are evil either. I guess I just don't believe in that sort of thing.

I have only been to Utah when I was an active member to go with my husband when he had to be there for work. I of course, enjoyed all the "mormony" stuff as a convert in a non-Mormon state. While I would never go back to see Temple square now....that restaurant with the water divers in the tree house looking restaurant is pretty awesome. Never seen anything like that before and would definitely go back for dinner. Kinda felt like eating in a fun restaurant in Vegas (which I loooove to go to!)

Yes, I believe Mormonism is a cult. I am glad I am out. There are some odd ducks that I have met and some that are even odder that I haven't, but your Sister is not a typical member if she is chanting and drawing symbols on the ground.

Same feeing driving in from the west as soon as I see the Kennecott smoke stack.

I think places give off vibes and if you are picking up an evil one, it's probably from your SIL doing things even Mormons would consider evil or at least on the dark side. I'm not a fan of Utah - don't like the lack of rain or high altitude or attitude of the Mormons. It isn't because I'm anti-Mormon, per se. But even most CA Mormons I know think UT Mormons aren't very good at living their precious gospel - too much judging, perfectionism, arrogance, snobbery, bad manners etc. And even at that, there are some UT Mormons I know who don't fit that description at all. So even though active Mormons with Attitude in Utah are in the minority, their self-righteous sense of entitlement causes a lot of bad vibes in Utah.

But as likely, places take on a vibe (IMO) based on their history and the sort of people who have chosen to settle there over time. Think about the feelings of the average pioneer polygamist woman, stranded in Utah with too many kids and too little husband help. Brigham Young recruiting all sorts of people, good and bad, to help him then ruling them with an iron fist. That's the foundation of the culture built out there and while even I think it's changing, people who are sensitive to other peoples' energy can probably pick up on that. Think about it - the energy in New York City is definitely different that in Boise or in Miami. Because those who set up the city made it a certain kind of place and more like-minded people followed. And decades of the harsh, judgmental reign of Mormonism in Utah have made it's impression, even if it's changing, even is some don't feel it, even if others have found pockets of normalcy to thrive in.

Finally, it's not just you. We had a visiting pastor a couple of weeks ago that had travelled to Utah several times. I mentioned to him I'd lived in Salt Lake City back in the 1990s and he said "Man, it's different out there. My friend pastors in a church in Davis county and they have an awful time getting pastors from out of state to work in Utah - they just get a bad feeling when they go out to visit." This isn't the Westboro Baptist church I attend - it's a very liberal, non-denominational church. But apparently you aren't the only one that has picked up on this weird energy from Utah. That doesn't make it necessarily evil but if the energy there doesn't work for you, you should probably avoid it.

and I lived there for 1 year with him. Sure, there are mountains at a distance. He lives on the bench of one mountain range here in Cache Valley and has full view of the Wellsvilles that are closer to him than the mountains from his house near Boulder. I live 1-1/2 miles from the mouth of a canyon and am surrounded on 3 sides by mountains. He says it is more like living in Estes Park here.

I don't mind Utah. I've lived here most of my life. I'm much happier living in Utah as an exmo than I ever was as a mormon.

I was recently in SLC and other parts of Utah. It had been a while and I have to say I loved the look and feel of the city. On the other hand, I felt some of that suffocation, which was more internal, as I walked around feeling surrounded by Mormons. It would have been more enjoyable if I had had snb's perspective in mind:

"SLC is the exmo capitol of the world..."

That makes it a pretty great place all by itself.

Hopefully not too off topic, but what is up with people suffering from drug and alcohol addiction out and about all over the place? That was my perception anyway. I'm familiar with many urban areas and it stood out to me as being worse in SLC than other places. Is there a disproportionate problem with drugs in SLC? Or some reason it appears to be more out in the open? Or maybe I just happened upon the bad part of town?

jefecito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "SLC is the exmo capitol of the world..."
>
>
> Hopefully not too off topic, but what is up with
> people suffering from drug and alcohol addiction
> out and about all over the place? That was my
> perception anyway. I'm familiar with many urban
> areas and it stood out to me as being worse in SLC
> than other places. Is there a disproportionate
> problem with drugs in SLC? Or some reason it
> appears to be more out in the open? Or maybe I
> just happened upon the bad part of town?


It goes with the territory. Salt Lake City is the ex-mo capital of the world. Those drug and alcohol addicts must be ex-mos.

See what happens when you turn your back on the truth?

^
^
^
^
^
^
^
^
^
^
^

(Obviously I'm just kidding here.)

haha. just to be clear, that's not where I was going with the thought at all. If anything, it should be helpful to recovery to be out of the morg.

lol

I liked living in Utah because of the natural beauty that abounds in the state. I loved the outdoors and biked, hiked and camped a lot while I lived there.

But the entire time I lived there, I could never shake the feeling that something was not right.

Now, after having left the state, whenever I return, I still hear that still, small voice that insinuates to me that something is amiss.

I'm not a believer in supernatural things, so I tend to dismiss it, but I can't deny that I feel something unpleasant and chilling when I'm there and look forward to leaving.

I love Utah and think it is beautiful and a wonderful place.

Sure the Mormons make it feel kinda weird at times, but that is quickly forgotten when you see the scenery.

Obviously Mormonism is a pebble in your shoe, so every step hurts like hell. You need to get rid of the pebble.

I'm not saying the city is ugly or the people are awful. The evil church RUNS the state. It is a theocracy. If you have never lived anywhere else, you don't see it. You have to be out of there for a while to see it.
Some day I will tell my story of how evil it is... the entire state is controlled by the CULT.

I've lived in multiple countries. Not just visited, I lived, worked, and spent years of my life as an adult outside of Utah.

What I am trying to say is that living somewhere else couldn't possibly be what is required before someone feels this evil. Perhaps something in your story might shed some light on what a person needs to do to see what you are seeing.

Liars and hypocrites! Mormons are the modern day pharisees.
Proud as peacocks with the stench of self importance and self proclaimed exalted status.

We have lived in Utah for three years. As never-mos who have lived in other metro areas, I wouldn't call it evil, I WOULD say living in Utah is absolutely suffocating. All I have to do is visit "home" for a week to remember just how much of a theocracy Utah really is. When mired in this muck for months on end it is easy to forget what the outside world is like.

The local news (my spouse and I play a drinking game watching the news and that involves the terms "LDS" or "church") , liquor laws, local government, being the only non-Mormon in our neighborhood and I am working for a company where 95% of the employees are Mormon. It is absolutely suffocating and we are counting down until we can leave.

Three years and seven months until we can leave.

Utah is very pretty.
Now if we can just get rid of those stinkin' mormons.

Last time I was in Utah, everything was fine until I had to interact with the locals. I was in a small town. People seemed over the top fearful. It was weird. Lots and lots of fear. What an awful way to live.

San Francisco?

Nobody in the City will cut a bitch for not going to a church meeting.


KW

"and if it weren't swarming with Mormons I'd love to live there." - abaddon, this is my whole point. I lived there for over 40 years. I just could not stand the theocratic government anymore. If I wanted a theocracy, I could live in Iran or someplace like that.
Utah does have gorgeous scenery... no argument there. But as you said IF IT WERE NOT SWARMING WITH MORMONS, IT IS A DECENT PLACE TO LIVE. Too bad that IT IS SWIMMING WITH MORMONS, but most importantly, it is governed by the cult's rules and screw anyone who doesn't like that.

It is like saying "this would be an excellent birthday cake, it is so gorgeous with its wonderful icing etc. ...if only it wasn't filled with black widow spiders and wasps!

CA Girl "So even though active Mormons with Attitude in Utah are in the minority, their self-righteous sense of entitlement causes a lot of bad vibes in Utah." - THey can be in the minority until the cows come home. Folks on this thread are NOT GETTING IT. Mormons with attitude in UTAH make the laws there, the govern the state so you are enveloped with their cult crap until you pack your bags and leave. To me it's like being locked in a room filled with poisonous snakes and the snakes are calling the shots.

And for the record, I just found out about my SIL yesterday. Just frosting on the already evil cake.

I didn't get a job at a PUBLIC STATE RAN COLLEGE because I did not have a Temple Recommend. This is ILLEGAL. I got this from a very reliable person at the college. No temple recommend, no full time teaching job. SO I SAID BYE UTARD. I worked too hard to get my degrees to be told that I have to have a TR to get a job there. F*CK that.

I have hundreds of examples of the evil that goes on in that state....hundreds.

whatiswanted - "but that is quickly forgotten when you see the scenery." - unless you can't see the scenery because you can't get a job and have to leave to get a job.... Colorado has gorgeous scenery too and no cult laws!!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/02/2014 04:31AM by verilyverily.

With post-traumatic stress disorder, there would be just too many triggers for panic attacks and anxiety (which can contribute to substance abuse). So, if another person says that Utah is evil, don't deny them their right to feel that way ;).

"SLC is the exmo capitol of the world..."

That does have its positives. When I try to explain myself, many people in this very low LDS population town just can't relate. I have built a support network here, anyway-- just a matter of education and finding the right people.

There are advantages to exmoism. I remember visiting home (Hancock County, Illinois) and asking in a group of people "Is it safe to talk about it here?" But I have been away for so many years, setting up a support network would be difficult (my aunts are elderly, and my same-age cousin has long-standing serious mental health issues).

I havn't been to SLC many times but I was there in August and thought it had a great vibe, I really enjoyed it. I met some fantastic people, none of whom were LDS. Might sound strange but it had a San Fransisco feel to it; as in it felt arty, happening, fun and a great place to meet great people.

One of my favourite places was the Oasis Cafe, I had brunch there one time and loved it, only wish I'd had enough time for a leisurely browse around their bookshop.

http://www.oasiscafeslc.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/02/2014 01:13PM by Claire Ferguson.

I lived in Utah (cache valley) for 6 years as a teen. I loved the land and scenery, but I couldn't wait to leave it due to the people. I feel suffocated when I'm in Utah. As a TBM, I felt kind of guilty for feeling so anti-Utah. But I've realized, since leaving the church, that Mormon Utahs tend to have more of the "early church" feel to it than non-Utah Mormons...and that was what always hit me really wrong.

I have fond memories of living right next to the mountains, riding my horse out there and spending a lot of time thinking and observing nature. I miss that. But I have very unfond memories of many other things.

I would rather live in Utah than Baghdad though :) I'd prefer to live in neither. There's plenty of other places I'd choose.