I just read the list of fraud allegations against moronism and was disappointed to see two of them which are tenets of many if not most Christian sects, namely the ones about Adam and Eve and the 6000 year-old earth. Anyone else think this was a mistake to include those two, which indicts most of Christianity? I am NOT a Christian, or defender of Christianity by the way. I just personally think he should have stuck with points that idict mormonism, which are exceedingly abundant. I mean, it looks like he slipped those in there to go after all of Christianity. That's a much bigger fish to fry. Many of the news outlets are going to focus on this and use it to ridicule the lawsuit.


For example,The Telegraph UK's headline reads: "Head of Mormon church Thomas Monson summoned by British magistrates' court over Adam and Eve teaching" That is probably NOT a headline that's going to garner a lot of support for this cause, especially in predominantly Christian countries.

Cheers

could it be possible that those items were chosen for a specific legal reason? and not just some kind of attack on religion?

what if there are witnesses that are willing to testify to Monson admitting that he doesn't believe those specific things...

In the U.K., although much of the population identifies (if asked) as some kind of Abrahamic, most of these same people believe in scientific fact--which does NOT include Adam and Eve, or a 6,000 year old Earth.

The number of people in the U.K. (or in Europe generally) who actually BELIEVE in the Adam and Eve story, or in a 6,000 year old Earth, are probably a very small part of the population.

So--even in predominately "Christian" countries, like the U.K.--the idea that the head of a religion exists who DOES believe in these things is likely to be a subject of curiosity and, probably, a kind of gentle ridicule.

I would think/hope that there is much more to this legal case than what is currently being presented in the media and the summons letter. I could be wrong but I bet there's more information currently being held back by Tom Phillips and his legal team. Maybe much more will unfold regarding the fraudulent charges and they will expose LDS Inc and the brethren for other shenanigans and insider info like the church's financial statements and how they use money behind the scenes.

I believe this was a shot at ALL religion, not just Mormonism or Christianity. It was really weak and obviously an attention-getting ploy (not that I mind the effect it is having on exposing the truth about Mormon Doctrine [evil Daffy Duck laugh])

I wouldn't waste a lot of energy being too disappointed or too excited before seeing the evidence. In the States, there is usually a lot of strategy involved with legal cases. That may or may not be true in the UK.

In the States, frivolous lawsuits can be and are filed as attention-getting ploys. This is not a lawsuit. This case is not based on U.S. law nor on Utah theocratic law, apparently, a hard concept to grasp for those so provincial that they don't realize other countries have their own laws unrelated to how the USA and Utah do things.

grubbygert could be onto to something. I think the allegations were well thought out and are there for a reason.

I'm surprised the first vision stuff isn't there, given the different accounts.

And what about Kolob? It can't be out of range for Hubble.

Let's remember that not many (I can't think of any offhand) religions make such outlandish claims as evidence of veracity, hence selling points that attach tithing as an absolute requirement for an absolute need to exaltation.

I (think I) recall from Tom's interview with John Dehlin that he had two general authorities give him different answers on the 6000 year question. One said (paraphrase) "of course the world has been around for more than 6000 years." Perhaps there is an angle there that Tom is looking to attack.

This may not be true for all Catholics, but that is what I was taught by Jesuits in Catholic high school. Namely that everything up to and including the "Great Flood" was based on verbal histories passed down through the generations. There are valid "teaching points" in them, but it is wrong to take them literally. I was told this was based on scholarly study of the origins of these books and what is known of the peoples who passed them along. Anyway that takes out a large number of Christians from the Book of Genesis literalists.

That said, I agree that throwing that one in with the Book of Abraham dilutes the point. He should stick to things that a vast majority of people would see as matter of fact versus faith.

The folks that are dismissing all of this with scoffs of "frivolous" and "bizarre" are in for a rude awakening.

"Huh...wait a minute....oh, I see....well...I guess I spoke to soon..."


The Europeans don't play games when it comes to fraud, religious or otherwise.

Only extremist crackpot type churches still claim the earth is so new and interpret the Adam and Eve story as literal.

I can understand the comments by bishop Rick & others concerning Adam & Eve etc but let’s not forget that this case is about fraud, specifically tithing money gained through deception, that is a criminal offence no matter whether it’s in the States or the UK
The LDS is the only ‘church’ claiming to be ‘Gods one true church’ & it is also the only so-called Christian church that teaches tithing as a law, which must be obeyed in order to be worthy. NO genuine Christian church would expect its members to tithe because tithing is NOT Christian doctrine therefore no mainstream Christian church has anything to worry about. The only organizations with cause for concern are those cults who use religion to become wealthy.