So, our marriage is kind of the rocks, related to the church of course. I had a few questions about this situation.

1. We currently reside in Seattle. My wife said she is going to start to look for jobs in Salt Lake. My assumption is that this is a veiled threat and that if she finds a job she will leave with or without me. We have 20 month old twin daughters. If she gets a job and takes the girls and leaves Seattle is that considered kidnapping?

2. If we do get a divorce is there any way to put in the divorce decree that she is not allowed to move out of Seattle so that we both can have equal visitation of the kids (every other week kind of a deal).


Sorry I know this is not a forum for free legal advice, but its hard to drop 3 to 4 hundred dollars on an hour of legal consultation without my wife finding out about it. Even if someone has links that outline divorce law in Washington State that would be helpful.

Thanks!

I think you could probably get a consultation for free. At least I did when I was going through my divorce. If you decide to retain the attorney in an actual divorce, then you would start to have to pay. Have you tried counseling?

hey, thanks so much for the advice thus far. We did see a counselor but it didn't work too well for us. We're still working on it, but the cracks are starting to show in both of us and we're getting close to being done with it. If we didn't have the girls I'm sure one or both of us would have walked away already.

There are all different types of lawyers and they will give you different service (and charge more or less). They do work for a living, however. I recommend asking around with trusted friends (maybe someone who has recently gone through a divorce).

Other advice, keep track of all the financials, make copies of statements.

As far as 2 - in some states (not sure about Washington), the parent needs to notify the court prior to moving. You may not be able to stop her from moving, if she can make the case that she can only find a job in SLC. That is definitely a question you need to talk with a lawyer about.

Finally, divorce is expensive. That sounds obvious as well, but going through one myself - it is really expensive. Max out the credit cards and ask family for money expensive.

You are creating two households from one AND paying lawyers an arm and a leg. Sometimes divorce is necessary, but be prepared and go in with your eyes open. Sometimes a couple looks at the heavy emotional and financial toll and decides to work on the relationship or come to an arrangement.

But it's also not the end of the world, it's a process that many people have been through and made it through (as well as many kids). As long as you and your wife put your kids first, the damage could be minimal to everyone. An amicable divorce doesn't always happen, but it does happen sometimes.

I've seen divorce decrees that require a parent who leaves the state to give up some level of custodianship to the still resident parent.

But based on your spouse's declared intent to get a job in Utah, you'll likely have an expensive fight on your hands to get her to agree to that. It will depend a lot on the judge in that case. I suspect more judges are likely to prefer parents who stay in position to support the children's current infrastructure. But with children only 20 months old, this is probably not such an important consideration.

ONLY a competent attorney who is very familiar with such cases can give you valid legal advice.

The worst thing you could do would be to take some non-lawyer's opinion as legal advice, however convincing and "knowledgeable" that person may sound.

Any money you spend for correct legal advice will be money well spent. It is much too risky to make decisions without correct advice. It can have tragic consequences.

Yeah, I found some attorneys here that do free 1/2 hour consults so I'll start there and see what happens. Ultimately reconciliation would be best for all, but might not be an option here...we'll see.

My wife us an attorney, though she is not a member of the Washington State Bar. She recommends that you consult an attorney in Washington sooner rather than later. She also suggested filing for a legal separation or divorce BEFORE your wife leaves for Utah. Your wife should not be able to legally take the children to reside in another state without the court's consent if you've filed before she leaves.

If you wait until she moves, it's a whole different ball of wax.

Great advice, thank you. It's a catch 22, becasue we are trying to reconcile so I don't want to do anything hasty, but at the same time I see your wife's point about getting int front of this before I lose control.

and having a custody battle in another.

Also, she may realize that working things out may be better than going through a divorce.

Especially if Religion is the biggest source of contention, if you get along other with.

She may get a rude awaking if she finds out the children don't belong to her, and that she free to move, she will not be taking the children to another state and calling all the shots.

Better see a lawyer.

Tell her that you would take a job in SLC even though it means you will earn less and won't be able to make much in the way of support payments. Find out what she will earn there compared with where you live. Money, and the lack thereof, talks.

Does she have family near SLC? Or someone she is "interested" in?

Good luck.

Why Utah? What is the draw? Fry sauce? And if possible handle the legal things in Washington not Utah. You do need to be proactive, you owe it to your kids.

Oh no, she's not interested in anyone (maybe not even me) at the moment. Her family lives down there so she wants to get closer to them and she has recently start practicing again so I'm sure there is a certain appeal to being in the mother land.

Utah is allegedly a very favorable state for women to get divorced in, so my completely amateur, anecdotally backed advice would be to get filed before she leaves.

Favorable for her as in do you like renting a room and eating ramen?

You need to file something (divorce or legal separation) in order to have any protection. If she leaves for Utah with the children while still married and no divorce or legal separation on file, you're pretty much screwed, especially if she then files for divorce in Utah. Usually, in a divorce, a parent can't leave the state for good unless some highly unusual circumstances and it's in the best interest of the kids--and even then the court has to give its permission. Beware of her taking a "trip" to Utah to "visit" relatives with the kids. She might not come back.

One who seeks legal advice on a message board can be sure of getting his/her money's worth.

whywait Wrote:
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> One who seeks legal advice on a message board can
> be sure of getting his/her money's worth.


Perhaps, but the majority of responders are telling the OP to seek paid professional legal counsel. That would seem to be reasonably good aedvice.

Absolutely they are, and it is good advice.

However, the OP did not ask if people thought he should see an attorney.

He sought legal advice to avoid paying a few hundred bucks.

He knows it is in his best interest to have an attorney, he just doesn't want to spend the money.

My attorney filed some preliminary paperwork after I'd been served a declaration of divorce. It preserved a monetary stipend I'd already been receiving. The paperwork made sure it still got paid during the divorce proceedings.

You might need to put a "risk of flight" type of restraining order so she can't take the kids and run.

Seattle has a booming economy in comparison to a lot of the rest of the country. She could easily get work there.

Salt Lake City job? Nah, if her family sent her a plane ticket she'd be there tomorrow with or with out a job.

She's bluffing.
This "I'm getting a job in Salt Lake" had better be a firm offer BeFore she moves. Unless she has a skill, like a nurse, and can walk in and be immediately hired she doesn't have a job. The unemployment among able bodied women who want to work right now is hovering at about 30% according to a news cast I heard this weekend on the radio.

She's saber rattling but needs to be called on it. She can only have half of the assets; bank account etc.

Does she know how awful it is to be a divorced woman in the TSCC? Unless she is Mormon royalty she'll get the royal shaft socially.

Keep the counseling. Then split if you must, but your children do need to have their Dad around them, especially if you really do interact with them.

Small children need their DADs! My child lost his Dad whom he'd been very close with, when he was four years old. It impacted him so much we thought he'd gone deaf because he stopped talking and communicating for months.
Dad's are important to toddlers if they take an active part in their lives....don't let anyone kid you!

If you want to fuck up your life and your children's relationship with you, then do not and I repeat do not talk with a divorce attorney right now. The money you spend on an attorney is so much less than what your travel cost are going to be. You are really stupid to avoid an attorney.

If your wife leaves for Utah and takes your children with her, there is NOTHING you can do about it because there is nothing to stop her. If you have an attorney file papers, she can not leave the State with your children. If she does, guess who gets to raise them. It is not her. If she moves after the divorce, for the most part, the parent that moves pays travel cost.

Most often the parents have to stay within the same county the get divorced in or a surrounding county.

Be stupid and wait or be smart and find out the real truth in your State.

I cannot tell you how many stupid stupid people fuck things up by thinking they are saving a $100 by skipping talking to an attorney. Most Divorce Attorney will talk to you for free so you and they can decide if they want to help you or not.

You have a serious problem dude and it will only get worse if you ignore it. By the way, any of the posters that said lawyers are expensive are wrong. Your problem is expensive if she leaves now and takes your kids. If your wife went to an attorney and told the attorney she wanted to move to Utah, she would be told to moved ASAP before any court papers are filed.

Be Smart and talk to an Attorney.

In this case, I'd strongly agree

I was married to a Utah girl who did the same sort of thing. I held on to reconciliation for WAAAAYYY too long. Now she is in Utah with the kids and I have been relegated to Cool Uncle status with my kids as I rarely see them. Your wife is probably 10 steps ahead of you in her head. I would file for a separation now, maybe even a divorce. I know it sounds counterintuitive, but the only been I've known that ever reconciled made it clear that they weren't going to be walked all over. You are one trip to SLC away from being screwed. Call an attorney ASAP.

First of all, not everyone has ANY resources for lawyers. I have no way to pay for a lawyer, none whatsoever. So try not to be so rude about this issue.

Also, Utah is NOT good for women in divorce. It USED to be, but not so anymore. I have recently gone through this, and met with several lawyers, and if you do have a woman filing in Utah, try to move to SLC, as it is better than doing it in Utah county.

Now, op, I think you do have the means and to go to your free consults. that helped a lot, believe it or not. Also, as for me I was able to leave the state without an issue but had to pay for the travel for son to come to visit father. we ended up pulling the divorce and have since worked it out, but just be aware.

I would not let her leave with those babies. She might be surprised what Utah will and won't do. Laws have changed drastically. Pretty equal with time.

So yeah, cover your ass. What does she do? you said she "prac ctices" what is it that she practices? Chances are very good she could get a job there. But Utah does have the second lowest unemployment rate. But it's bullshit too. It's why my ex is in CA looking for work.

Those babies are the most importmant aspect of this whole thing. They need their mommy AND Daddy, and no matter how friendly you can o it it will always affect them.

Good luck. Divorce sucks. Divorce because of religion is just stupid. Stupid Mormons.

Agree with file NOW advice!

The person who files FIRST controls the whole thing. Yes, see an Attorney ASAP. Don't even wait to find a really good one. Just get at least Separation filed for.

You can always reconcile AFTER you file!

AND you can find a better attorney ANY TIME you want. Just don't pay a huge retainer up front. If the Attorney insists on a large retainer go to a DIFFERENT ATTORNEY. PHONE & ASK What the retainer will be. If they won't say, go elsewhere.

This is great advice.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2014 12:16AM by Susan I/S.

Yes, you can always reconcile or work things out later. My ex filed cause his boyfriend talked him into it. But his boyfriend didn't know me very well.....I tend to fight. I know retainers here in Utah a couple years ago were $2000-3000. Just to file basic stuff. I didn't have a lawyer and I was out-of-state but filed the answer myself. Cost my ex thousands and he just didn't have it.

I agree though, do something now!!! She could do something tomorrow for all you know and you won't know for a few days.

I thought of something since I posted last. The thought of losing my wife and kids that I loved so much caused a lot of pain that clouded my judgement. I thought how could filing for legal action lead to the outcome I wanted, a reconciliation. All this did was setup to be a sucker and I lost in a big way. You probably don'y see it this way right now, but your wife threatening to move to SLC is an Act of War! Treat it as such. That threat alone should be enough to take legal action and you should be realizing that you aren't in Kansas anymore so to speak. If you don't react to her threats she is going to think she can have everything she wants. Don't let her be a cake-eater.

That is so true bambam. There is so much emotional turmoil that you want to think the best of your spouse, but don't. They can surprise you and hurt you like you could never imagine.

Who is the exmo? I am assuming you, but your name suggests otherwise.

Call tomorrow. I know it's hard, but it's gotta be done. She drew the line in the sand.

50 different types of family law.

Talk to a lawyer in your state that specifically practices family law. Go with a list of questions and concerns. Take notes. Sleep on it, then do something.

We were from Utah. Moved to Idaho with 4 kids. We had severe long term problems but I couldn't bring myself to file. She went to Utah to visit her relatives, taking the younger 2 children with her.

Talked on the phone to one of the kids who told me her family was helping her get ready to file (in Utah).

That was it. I immediately filed in Idaho, even though she'd already left. Because she was still technically an Idaho resident (for just long enough) the Idaho court took jurisdiction. (Things like which state you have your drivers license, where you intend to live, are things that decide residency, but these can be changed quickly).

I wound up with custody of all of the kids, which in this case was the best thing for the kids, but sure hard on me. Being mr. mom is harder than you think.

I don't envy you in the decisions you may have to make. Best wishes.

Call your county family law division. You can file on your own.

I live in Seattle and just finished getting divorced last month. My lawyer does a one hour free consultation. If you want to email or talk to me more, I would be glad to help. My profile has my email address listed.

Some of the "legal" advice is way off. A retainer is NOT how much a divorce cost. It is an estimate of what the lawyer is guessing your case will cost based on what you have told him/her. It might cost less or it might cost more depending on how much of the lawyers time you waste and how much fighting you do with your spouse. If your case cost less than the retainer then you get money back. Lawyers put your retainer into a special bank account called a trust account and take money out of it after they have worked on your case. A good lawyer will charge about $200 an hour. A $400 an hour lawyer is not any better than a $200 an hour one. Use a lawyer you trust and get along with.

Usually a person has to live in a new State for about 6 months before they can be a resident. You want to keep the case in your State because it is cheaper on you and you want your kids.

Side note - many of the children that get abused it is from Mom's boyfriends or husbands. That alone should make you fight for your children.

Not able to pay an attorney. How you spend your money shows what type of a person you are. Money for beer, money for tithing, money for dating, money for hunting, money for a sports car. No money to support your kids is pretty lame.

I don't know about Washington State, but I do know someone in the state I live in that did get #2 put in the divorce decree. They have joint custody. He put a clause in the divorce saying that if she moved XX miles from the city where they currently resides, he gets full custody. And it was an issue because she got a job offer in another state and turned it down because of the divorce decree.

But, as everyone mentioned above, talk to a lawyer and get the details of what you can do in your state.