Has anybody heard of Bill Carpenter's conversion story? I'm trying to verify his background.

You can find it here:

http://ldsemailforwards.blogspot.com/2013/02/the-bill-carpenter-conversion-story.html

Carpenter says that prior to his conversion he was enrolled in studies for the Catholic priesthod at "St. Gart's Private Jesuit Seminary". The library abstract for his tape recording names his seminary as, "St. Gart's School of Divinity".

I've been trying to locate this facility, but so far I haven't been able to find it on Google. In fact, the only "Saint Gart" that comes up is the name of a fictional hospital in an episode of "Dr. Who". No Catholic saints go by that name, anyway.

Can anybody help me out?

He's lying.

I want to give Carpenter the benefit of the doubt, but his Catholic seminary story doesn't sound credible.

"St. Gart's Private Jesuit Seminary" is apparently VERY private.

If you are going to a Jesuit seminary you are too smart to fall for the LDS BS.

Why hasn't anyone caught on? It is a hoax. From Idaho. It was clued to Dr. Who. Period. Mormons don't check out stories about anything. That's why Nibley got by with his phony footnotes. BTW, I figured out Nibley back in 1978 after reading only two pages.

Hinckley and Monson repeating the old story about the milk strippings is the same genre.

You've heard about Carpenter's story, then?

I remember being told about it in 1996, but it's been popular since at least 1990.

I didn't know "who" St. Gart was until last week, though, thanks to Google. Now I want to watch that Dr. Who episode . . .

Spelled Gart or Garth? US or UK, or elsewhere?

According to the library abstract it's "Gart". No "h".

It's not clear where the seminary is supposed to be, but I assume it's in the U.S.

"Bill Carpenter, one of thirteen children, was raised on a cattle ranch and went to high school in Potlatch, Idaho. After graduation he attended St. Gart's School of Divinity for three and a half years where he studied to enter the Catholic ministry as a Jesuit. Against the advice of his seminary leaders he began a personal study program of the scriptures. He became convinced by the Spirit that some of the doctrines of Catholicism he had been taught all his life were false. He was converted to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and his decision to be baptized caused great trauma for himself and his family."

Source:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:fF-fnAtztzIJ:catalog.library.washco.utah.gov/client/en_US/default/search/detailnonmodal/ent:%24002f%24002fSD_ILS%24002f566%24002fSD_ILS:566316/ada%3Bjsessionid%3D915037253768FAD684A1B4B0C5B9502C%3Fqu%3DLDS%2Bnon-fiction%2B--%2BSound%2Brecordings.%26ic%3Dtrue%26ps%3D300+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk

I think he actually said St. Marks seminary, not Garth's.

http://www.stmarksboise.org/692-2/

That St. Mark's is a Catholic parish, not a seminary.

Here's where he says, "St. Gart's Private Jesuit Seminary":
http://youtu.be/iPS8PzYBRa8?t=30s

Unlike the library abstract and Carpenter's pronunciation, the Spanish translation on screen has "st. Garth's" with an "h" but no seminary with that name comes up, either.

St. Fart's maybe? This story is starting to smell funny.

Still confused: JSEA lists no Jesuit secondary or high schools named Gart or Garth, or even St Mark's, in Idaho.

Nor any other seminary schools at all, in Idaho.

Perhaps we got the name wrong or he attended school in another state?

Or, the school he went to is closed/defunct or has been renamed? Or he simply went to a local parish/parochial Catholic high school in the neighborhood and is mislabeling that attendance as going to seminary?

Even if defunct it should be on google. Calling it a "private" seminary is odd. All are private as none are state or government run in this country.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/18/2014 11:40AM by rhgc.

Thanks for checking.

He says that he entered "St. Gart's" Seminary after graduating from high school, so it wasn't a secondary/high school, but a college-level institution.

I'm thinking this "St. Gart's," if it existed/exists, was/is in another state. Even if it was closed or re-named, I'd expect to be able to find it online. So far, nothing.

Another oddity: he says that his parents paid $12,000 to have him at St. Gart's Seminary. My understanding is that diocesan seminarians are sponsored by their diocese, and the expenses of Jesuit novices — which I'm presuming that's what Carpenter was — are taken cared of by the Society of Jesus, so it doesn't make sense that his parents were footing the bill.

There is a Garth House and a Garth School, neither being Jesuit institutions but one being Catholic.

I am wondering if the transcription is incorrect and he meant St Marks or St Barts. Now, larger Catholic diocese do in fact have seminaries that train priests. They are not always the more recognizable or traditional, 4 year degree granting colleges or universities we might be more familiar with as a Georgetown or a Loyola Marymount.

My uncle was a seminarian and a newbie priest at a Catholic school in Indiana, may have been Mt Carmel or OLOMC related. Not sure. It was back in the 1960s. I know that was not a 4 yr college nor a Jesuit divinity school. He called it seminary, not divinity school.

I think either the guy is using the wrong name by accident or on purpose, or is calling it the wrong thing so LDS get it more easily, or whoever transcribed that video made a mistake.

There is a St. Mark's Seminary on the grounds on Gannon University in Erie, PA. It's a Jesuit affiliated school.
Perhaps St.Mark and Gannon were confabulated some how?

Thanks.

Can you verify if Gannon is indeed affiliated with the Jesuits? I looked Gannon up yesterday and found no Jesuit contribution in its history. Gannon is a diocesan institution affiliated with the Diocese of Erie, as far as I can tell. St. Mark's Seminary is diocesan as well, not Jesuit.

St. Mark's is the closest lead we have so far, only because "Mark" *vaguely* sounds like "Gart". But Carpenter did clearly say, "St. Gart" several times in his story.

I wonder if this is one of those, "Some names have been changed in my talk to protect the privacy of the individuals involved" kind of thing.

I still can't get over the fact that the only St. Gart reference I can find is in "Dr. Who". If, for the sake of argument, he was fabricating his seminary story, you'd think there would be a few Dr. Who fans among his listeners who would ask him about it.

RE: Gannon/Jesuit?

Looking through various web pages, I noted that Roman Catholic Bishop Gannon, who founded the school, was indeed a Jesuit. I saw a reference to to the school's Jesuit connection, but can't find it again!

Just because there was a Jesuit priest it is named after doesn't mean it's a Jesuit institution. It can, but not necessarily.

The part about the story that you wouldn't get unless you are Catholic and have experience with the Jesuits is that he would not be in seminary right out of high school. The Jesuits have the most rigorous program of study of all the orders. You must have a 4-year degree before you can even enter the seminary. Then there are several years of discernment before you are allowed to take initial vows, and your superiors can (and do, occasionally, after years of work) can still refuse you entry if they don't feel the priesthood is right for you. (Not only paid clergy, but highly qualified clergy) The entire process after college takes an additional 12 YEARS before you are ordained. The Jesuit order not only requires intensive study to join, but they focus their efforts on education, hence the many Jesuit Universities (dozens in the US alone).

Secondly, a personal study of the scriptures would not only NOT be forbidden, it would be an immediate requirement.

It is interesting that whenever anyone has an axe to grind and needs a Catholic conspiracy, they always choose the Jesuits. The poor Benedictines, Dominicans, Holy Crosser's, etc. must feel so left out.

Carpenter's dead, right? So why doesn't someone, since we can't ask him, go ask the LDS church itself? They promoted him and his conversion story and allowed him to use their name and their venues to sell his stuff, and used his membership and story to their own advantage, to reel in new converts.

Aren't they responsible for his message, too, if they knew or should have known it was false, and didn't bother to fact-check it first?

Now that we're on to them and the truth is spreading on the 'net, maybe they can make Carpenter, and Dunn, and the milk strippings et. al. the topic of the next essay ...

I know about the novitiate year, for seminarians, but he is talking about it in a way I just don't understand.

Carpenter refers to it in his talk, as a cloister year. The Franciscans (or some of them, anyway), do that but I am pretty certain the Jesuits do not. The Franciscans call it Novitiate (not cloister--cloister is for females, for nuns).

It's certainly a different experience than what some missionaries or others may be able to relate to.

The novitiate year is halfway thru the 4 yr degree in divinity (or whatever degree they are going for) and a novitiate is low man on the totem pole, He gets hazed a bit (hopefully not dangerously), does the drudge and grunt work for others, and learns extreme obedience to authority, studies and contemplates a lot---with others doing the exact same thing at the same time-- and must serve many masters (other priests), all while managing to keep their temper, learning patience, humility, etc. they do this in groups, not b themselves, although they do it in a separate place (not always), usually, than the seminary itself where they begin their studies.

It's like a year long religious retreat for beginners/initiates who have not yet been ordained. The whole process of becoming a priest takes about 9-10 years, of full time study and training.

But "cloister year" as in cloistered nuns, or taking extreme vows of silence?

No way. He was using the wrong terminology here.

I saw Grand Rapids Theological Seminary. Maybe someone might call it St. GRTS. But it's not Catholic I don't think.

Then I thought maybe St Gertrude might be nicknamed St Gert. But I only found a convent.

Tis a mystery - or a lie.

Wow, that's even better! Thanks!

As you said, it's not Catholic. And it's definitely not Jesuit, so that can't be it. But the coincidence with the acronym "GRTS" — I almost had a "burning in the bosom," for a moment there. :)

The search goes on.

Baptist seminary. And it would have been called Grand Rapids Baptist College and Seminary to Cornerstone College and Grand Rapids Baptist Seminary until 1993/94

After doing more research on that "St. Gart's Brookside Hospital" in an episode of Dr. Who, I've determined that that episode isn't the origin of Carpenter's "St. Gart's Seminary": the episode came out in 2004, 14 years after Carpenter's tape.

(I'm also presuming that Carpenter isn't a time-traveler).

And I can't find any references to "St. Gart" in the pre-1990 episodes of Dr. Who.

So, the mystery deepens. Who is this St. Gart???

Did you see some of the comments under this video of his conversion? A couple of catholic people very much doubt he's telling the truth about studying to be a priest.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1f_-kE9YQrg

See if you can find St Grts here.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jesuit_institutions

Is Carpenter still alive? Let's send someone to ask him.

One side note. This kind of conversion does happen. My step father-in-law was a Catholic Priest when he was wounded in Vietnam. My mother-in-law was his nurse at the VA hospital and converted him. They married and he became the proud step-father of six kids. he remained dedicated and faithful until he died a few years ago. I know nothing of Bill Carpenter, but his story would not be considered unique.

Just consider how many young (and directionless) people are taking up radical Islam and joining ISIS. I guess they felt the spirit.

OK, I'll bite. Who is this guy and why do we care?

This guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1f_-kE9YQrg