Hi all, semi-regular lurker but Anon 4 this today.

I've been scared to death these past couple weeks but thought I'd take this to the board today. I met with my stake president 2 weeks ago for my recommend renewal. I answered the questions honestly and when it got to the part about tithing, I told him that I'm still a full-tithe payer (I am) but that I had doubts that the money was being used in the best manner.

He said that doubting the current use of money is akin to not sustaining church leaders. As such, he was not going to grant me a temple recommend renewal at the moment, until I pray and feel otherwise.

If I don't go back to the temple and lose my recommend, I'm afraid of losing my sealings to my family. I'm just afraid that I'm going to lose so much just because I have doubts about the best use of tithing money.

Here's the deal:

When you're born Mormon, from day one you are told by your parents your family and extended family, and especially the church, that the sky is red. Then, everyone in that group and nearly everyone they let you contact with spend as much effort as possible teaching you that it's evil to look up.

As you start to catch glimpses of blue out of the corner of your eye and have questions you are told that those questions are evil and that you could lose everything by looking up.

Seriously dude, look up. The sky is blue and life is better when you realize that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2014 01:26PM by brucermalarky.

This is a turning point at which you recognize your tithing dollars are not being used in Godly ways by the church. Along with that realization all of the other things you thought were true are proved no longer to be true.

There is no such thing as sealings. It's all psychological, and you're bound to it by devotion to your family. If you break away from the church because you've realized it's all a lie, your family dynamic will be affected. And it's not fair. It's a sick mental manipulative spell that mormons are under.

What the hell? Seriously? People can't even have curiousity and ask questions about where the money WE work for goes? What a jackass SP.

Tell him you were being honest because that's the kind of person you are.

Ask him what kind of assurances he wants from you. Then nod and act agreeable. Tell him you think perhaps he overstepped a bit and ought to reconsider. He does want TR holders and he does want honest members in his ward. You'll need to act compliant but more assertive. Do you have any dirt on this guy or his family that you could drop hints about? I'm sure he's throwing his weight around because he loves power and he isn't as pure and perfect as he pretends to be.

By the way, sealings are quite meaningless and don't have any real value except in the minds of a portion of the TBMs who attend the temple.

I think all Christians believe that they will be with their friends, family and loved ones in heaven. It wouldn't be heaven otherwise.

The same Mormon leaders who are misusing your tithing are the ones who tell you they have the power over your heaven. It's a scam, through and through, and they know it.

God has billions of children. He doesn't give extra blessings to the tiny percent who find Mormonism and deny the rest of them.

Heresy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think all Christians believe that they will be with their friends, family and loved ones in heaven. It wouldn't be heaven otherwise.

Yes, that's true. Except for a few fringe groups (the JWs, the Mormons) virtually all Christians expect to be reunited with their families and other loved ones in Heaven. The Mormons were trying to sell you something for money that is a fundamental Christian birthright and heritage, and a Christian belief that has been around for nearly two thousand years. Even other religions have believed this. The ancient pagan Romans believed it.

First of all, not having a temple recommend doesn't negate your sealings. That's not doctrine. So put your mind at ease. You can deal with the feelings you have about the church separate from qualifying for a temple recommend.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2014 01:26PM by brucermalarky.

It's unfortunate that the LDS church uses these types of things to control their members.

Also, why can't they be honest about how the money is spent? The Utah Lighthouse Ministry, the organization founded by LDS church critics and researchers Jerald and Sandra Tanner, publishes their financial reports annually on GuideStar. Here is their form 990:

http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocuments/2012/942/874/2012-942874948-094cc05c-9.pdf

The Freedom from Religion Foundation also publishes their financial reports on GuideStar, too.

If the church's biggest critics and some of the biggest critics of religion can be transparent, why can't the LDS church?

I understand that the fear of losing one's sealings is very real. I do not believe in sealing or anything the LDS church teaches. But I can understand the fear.

According to LDS doctrine, your sealings remain valid unless you resign from the LDS church or are excommunicated. If you never paid another penny in tithing, never held another temple recommend, and never set foot in a another LDS temple or chapel until the day you die your sealings will be just as valid as they are today. The only things that will invalidate them are excommunication or resignation from the LDS church.

Your SP is being a jerk. In the future you should keep your doubt's to yourself or voice them on an anonymous forum like this one. The LDS church will not tolerate any doubt or dissent.

"Sealings" are permanent. Even those of us who are inactive or have resigned (or been excommunicated) are still "sealed." Even those of us who are divorced from our former LDS spouse are still "sealed" unless the "sealing" is specifically voided by the First Presidency.

If we were to return to the Church we would require to be baptized again and then have our blessings restored (by laying on of hands). But we would not be ordained again (for men) or receive our endowments or be sealed again.

I don't know which makes me more sad... a Stake President who knows so little about the doctrine of his religion or that you feel so easily manipulated. It is time for you to assert your rights.

I advise you to seek you own relationship with God. If you are secure with God, then no Stake President can intimidate you.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2014 01:35PM by idleswell.

Who cares if your sealings are invalidated? Even if you resign or are excommunicated, the members will just baptize you again when you are dead and the sealings will all come flowing back. Big freaking deal.

I suggest you start pocketing that 10% and stop giving it to an org that isn't using your funds the way you would like them to.

The person that performed your sealings had no authority to do so. He has no special power to bind in heaven.

There's nothing to lose.

I know it's hard to accept at first. I had a hard time, too.

But it's the truth.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2014 01:43PM by mormonrealitycheck.

Ok, Not a chance in hell.
You couldn't get rid of those sealings even if you wanted to.

I asked, they refuse to unseal me from family members I want nothing to do with. They also insist I stay sealed to some guy I was married to for 24 months when I was 18. That was over 40 years ago!

Not only that, I was ex'd. Found out all that crap was STILL in tact when I went back 20 years later.Including the ex husband.

So yeah, even though they're fake, you still can't get rid of them.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2014 01:50PM by madalice.

Is this a trick?

What we have here is a TBM who honestly believes in the temple sealings and this person come to a board full of EX mormons for advice about whether or not the SP is out to lunch? What?

OP, are you sure you meant to post this here? Do you mind if I ask, why on earth would you ask a bunch of ex-mormons about a thing like this? Wouldn't it make more sense to speak to your bishop or some other stake-level priesthood holder?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2014 01:47PM by dogzilla.

Why are only people 100% completely out allowed here, and not those who are on the beginning of their path of recovery?

I did not forbid anyone from posting or suggest any such thing. What I wondered is what a TBM would get out of asking a group of exmormons about some esoteric bit of doctrine according to one guy.

Just seems like asking a bunch of Volvo owners if they think something is wrong with your BMW, that's all.

I'm all for TBMs to be posting here, but usually their motivation makes sense or appears obvious.

I would also add that the OP isn't very clear if he or she is really on his or her way out of the church. There's nothing in the OP to indicate that at all. Questioning where tithing goes is not necessarily indicative of wavering faith. At all.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2014 03:12PM by dogzilla.

Questioning how the church spends its donations, along with the associated lack of transparency, is an excellent point of departure for someone who is questioning or even just curious.

I would tell the SP that you prayed about it and the "spirit" revealed to you that he was just "speaking as a man". Then tell him that the "spirit" prompted you to no longer pay tithing until you received your recommend.

Ask him to pray about it.

Even though I resigned from the lds church, my ex wife had to have our sealing canceled before she could remarry in the temple. Your temple sealings remain in tact no matter what.

Let's just pretend, for a moment that the whole lds church thing isn't made up and that J.S really did restore it.

There is a huge difference in their doctrine between your standing with the church and your standing with God. They are completely different and only your standing with God matters. The church does not have a doctrine of infallibility of leaders - and thus they can be in error and off track.

Be right with yourself and your God and you will be fine.

Or better yet, open your eyes and figure out that the lds church is not true and your sealing are pretend.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2014 01:56PM by The Oncoming Storm - bc.

My suggestion would be to study Christian beliefs of Heaven and any any other beliefs. Mormons (and a few other groups) are the only ones who preach you need to have these cords attached in order to see your loved ones. I think if you understood how others believe heaven to be, it will break some of that fear. I imagine this is going to be one of the tougher beliefs to break, where for me, a nevermo, I just say Heaven doesn't work that way.

The thing is, there are so many loopholes. After your death, all anyone would have to do is perform dead rituals for you. It also seems that sealings don't really ever go away judging by the need to gain permission for sealing cancellation, even when one ex-spouse has resigned. It really doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but one thing is certain, handshakes, secret names, and temple sealings are unnecessary and are just a means of keeping Mormons paying up, busy, tired, broke, and broken. They're easier to control that way and the cash cow continues.

I understand. Please consider believing in a Jesus or a Celestial Kingdom that would never exclude you over something like a bureaucratic process.

Be an amazing person, the best you can be, but messy. Making mistakes, but growing. Be a good spouse, loving. Great parent, encouraging your kids growth through listening.

Then choose to believe this is the type of person that God loves and wants with Him, and wants happy so He will allow the family relationships to continue. Choose this belief.

"I had doubts that the money was being used in the best manner.

He said that doubting the current use of money is akin to not sustaining church leaders."


This is very strong evidence that the church is in fact misusing donations. Why else would he make that connection?

The church is robbing you blind and your SP all but admitted it.

The way I see it, you have a few choices. If a temple recommend is really that important to you, you can do what your SP wants you to do, push your doubts aside, never think about it again and sustain your leaders. You can also get your TR back by going into the SP office and telling him that you've resolved your doubts even though you haven't. Or, you can use this experience to question why the "most perfect church" on earth needs to use fear to keep its members in line.

Just a word to the wise, if you choose to stay in the church, you might want to consider keeping any doubts or questions to yourself. As you've learned, even though the church says otherwise, it does not tolerate questioning. The church requires complete loyalty and conformity and punishes members if they voice concerns.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2014 03:25PM by want2bx.

This is why I think sealings are one of the worst teachings of Mormonism. Seriously, what church teaches that people can't be with their families in the eternities? What kind of God would do that, just for doubting? The other side of that coin is truly ugly, and Mormons almost never recognize that. This is why I'm happy to be truly free from that mind control.

Don't worry about the sealings. It's make believe.

If you continue in the church, by not having a temple recommend means you don't have to get the pain in the ass assignments.

The church only has power over you as long as you allow it.

So, you don't like the way I do my church job....then fire me... crickets of course.

Depending on your income, you could be going on nice cruise each year with your wife, or have a nice car in 3 years and dump the beat up 15 year old wreck.

You will always be a better steward of your money than the church so long as you don't send it to another full blown scam/sham/ make believe institution promising a better life once your dead.

Tell the SP to keep it. Now you don't have to volunteer for those dumb ass youth temple trips.

Ask the SP where this supposed doctrine is found. Tell him that either he provides such proof or you will report him to the Area Authority.

Or, better yet tell the SP that you will ask the congregation next Sunday from the pulpit and will tell that congrgation what he told you in private.

That will change his BS tune pronto!

You are a full tithe payer with doubts asking a valid question.

Why the threat? Why the censorship?

Welcome to the Dark side of Mormonism.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2014 03:20PM by AmIDarkNow?.

every once in a while someone here says they are 'going back' to TSCC and i always think, 'you'll be back here in a year' (and yes, sometimes i actually tell them that...)

your post is a perfect example of why - once someone has seen that the leaders (past or present) aren't the perfectly benevolent souls we were brainwashed to believe that they are everything suddenly takes on a whole new meaning

oddly enough, paying tithing is the example that i like to give (because TSCC is ALL about the money)

as in, "the next time you have a tight month/year you'll have a tough time writing that tithing check..."

to OP: take your time and learn as much as you can