Lets reinstitute the Military Draft. Maybe add a set number of Peace Corps or CCC type assignments alongside it so no one will have a reason to complain.

Would certainly give 'prospective missionaries' who aren't really that excited about preaching a nice alternative reason to forego the church expectations.

It would also get my 19 yr old out of my basement.

He thinks that working 30 hours a week and paying $200 a month rent is proof that he's an adult. <insert eye roll here>

I remember the draft. While military recruitment has become more of a challenge, I think that the military overall functions a lot better with volunteers. And if we ever have another crisis (WWII, 9/11) people will gladly sign up as they have in the past.

...Technological advances have made it so the military simply does not need the sheer numbers of soldiers it had 40-50 years ago, even in war times.

For this reason alone, the chances of a draft ever coming back are slim, if not none.

People don't want to be drafted to serve the interests of oil cartels.

Come on. You know most people aren't aware the purpose of war is to serve the interest of oil cartels.

LOL

It is in this day and age.

It's not about oil, it's about freedom! Just look at "Operation Iraqi Freedom"! Oh, wait...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/20/2014 12:02AM by hangar18.

Seriously...how could anyone who lived through it (and wasn't insulated by a student deferment) have pleasant memories of what the Vietnam War did for the country's youth?

But you can get anything you want at Alice's Restaurant.

Richard Foxe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Seriously...how could anyone who lived through it
> (and wasn't insulated by a student deferment) have
> pleasant memories of what the Vietnam War did for
> the country's youth?

The draft should only be instituted in times where the country is in real danger (World War II...which is why it is sometimes called "the Good War," because the danger was REAL).

The destructive effect of the draft on the nation's people as a whole, in a NON-essential war, cannot really be understood by anyone who has not lived through it.

Unless and until there is another World War II (which I dearly hope there will never be), the military should be formed from 100% volunteer enlistees. (And on behalf of those volunteer enlistees: there is a WHOLE lot that needs to be significantly improved for our presently serving military forces.)

I know I'll get a ton of criticism for this, but if we're going to argue for gender equality (which is a big issue for the church AND the military), then a draft should also include women. You can't have gender equality only when it's convenient for women.

Ok, I'll start with the criticism.

First, gender equality is not a big issue for LDS Inc. they don't have any. The military OTOH is pretty good about gender equality. It does have a serious problem with sexual harassment, but that is not the same thing.

If a draft ever were to come back (don't hold your breath), it likely would include women, for the reason you stated. However, you very much made it sound like you think women have in general been getting a huge free ride in general and the gravy train is going to stop, by God. You want some retributive justice here.

So you said the right thing and still managed to be sexist about it. Congrats. That's not easy. :)

I could counter your argument so much better if I hadn't been drinking.

Gender equality is an issue for a significant number of LDS members, but perhaps not the corporation. The military institution is trying to improve gender equality, but just like the church, leaders at multiple levels have struggled with proper execution.

In my experience, sexism is much more prevalent than harassment. I guess it depends on the job you're in and position you hold, but I encounter it constantly. It doesn't hold me back in my career, but I have to address it all the time. It's often subtle, and much more difficult to stop than harassment.

I have no issues with women choosing to serve or not to serve in an all volunteer force, but where do you draw the line for women who want nothing to do with military service but are forced in? Perhaps we should use the model of the IDF where women can be exempted because of religion, marriage, pregnancy, or motherhood. However, to me that is sexist, because I know many fathers who have valid reasons to be home with their children, or men who wouldn't want to serve because of religious beliefs.

I can see why you'd say I was sexist about my comment; however, I could write a novel as to what experiences I've had that led me to that conclusion. For many military career fields, women can do just as well as men, so why should we assume that a draft would be the role of men? As far as a free ride, I don't necessarily think it's about that. We just can't demand rights based on convenience.

pineapple Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I know I'll get a ton of criticism for this, but
> if we're going to argue for gender equality (which
> is a big issue for the church AND the military),
> then a draft should also include women. You can't
> have gender equality only when it's convenient for
> women.

Absolutely true...

If there is a draft, it should apply to females equally with males. Although there are still some specialties which are reserved for men only, females should be included on an equal basis to the extent possible...and those gender-specific requirements should be whittled down as quickly and as realistically as is possible.

Israel has a military obligation which applies to both genders equally (with exemptions of various kinds for the super-Orthodox religious who request exemptions), and this military obligation has worked well for over a half-century. (For one thing, it is used as an important means of integrating new immigrants of military age into Israeli society as a whole... beginning with getting them fluent and literate in Hebrew.)



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 10/19/2014 08:09PM by tevai.

Why would you think you'd get a ton of criticism for that?

In terms of gender equality, I see nothing wrong whatsoever with requiring women to register for the draft. It works for Israel -- everyone serves two years, mandatory. EVERY.ONE. I'm sure there's plenty of non-front-line positions; I don't see what the big deal is.

The problem I do see is the US Military is so rapey. I don't think current female soldiers worry about being raped by the enemy; I think they worry about being raped by their OWN team. That's unconscionable and it doesn't seem to be a problem in Israel and other countries where women serve right along with men.

The topic bringng back the draft is beyond dumb. I really thought about moving to Canada waiting to see what my draft number was. The draft is bad.

How would we pay for this?

We'd have to feed, clothe, house, pay and provide medical coverage for millions.

Then pay for their schooling once they leave service? Someone gets hurt while serving and we take care of them for life.

We'd have to provide housing and medical care for their spouses and kids too.

Just tax the corporations that profit from wars. If that doesn't cover it, we could just stop having wars :P

I was subject to the draft.

I have mixed feelings.

Well-to-do people were always exempt.

Nixon ended the draft because it makes for too many protests against war.

Much easier to fight foolish wars with a volunteer force. If anyone complains, you say, "they signed up for it."

A lot of profit in war with all the naïve young guys fighting.

By the way, I was an air force officer for 9 years before I couldn't take it anymore. Total misuse of our military. We make enemies, so we can fight more wars.

"Government is a disease masquerading as its own cure." – Robert LeFevre

To be clear, I favor a draft, starting with the kids of politicians who get us into stupid wars.

Then we wouldn't be fighting them.

In fact, it seems stupid to send our young guys over there to get legs blown off, and brains rattled, requiring lifetime care.

I say send the old guys and gals over to drive convoys or whatever. Yep, doubt we'd have any wars then. Easy to send the young and gullible. Just tell them they are heroes and feed them BS about fighting for our freedom.

"Wars are planned in back rooms by old men but I notice it's always the young that die."

Let all the old men who want to push each other around, do it on their own time, on their own dollar. Leave the rest of us out of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IouJU_EDTYU

Beth, HM3 USN



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/20/2014 12:55AM by Beth.

Two U.S. presidents, first Ford and then Carter, pardoned the Vietnam-era draft-dodgers--one of whom later became president himself. This means that it will be all right for anyone to dodge any future draft by any means, legal or illegal, and come back safely after it's all over.

If a popular Democratic administration tried it, the liberal media might go along with it for a while--but sooner or later (sooner if the Republicans took over) they would do an about-face and it would be the late 1960s all over again.

If I ever got drafted, I'd be one of the worst soldiers ever, just saying.

I know shit about guns.

I know shit about fighting.

I know shit about following orders. (Hell that's partly why I couldn't handle mormonism)

Id probably go AWOL or end up getting myself killed.

My husband just retired in July after about 30 years of Army service. I'm really glad he served with other people who volunteered and wanted to do the job. It made the work much safer for everybody. Drafting people to the military is a waste of resources because not everyone is suited for military service.

I was a Peace Corps Volunteer and, after that experience, I can tell you that not everyone is suited for the Peace Corps, either.

Draft beer, not humans for crissesakes.

1968: flunked a mission call and was called up as a 1-A to face 2, yes 2 pre-induction physicals.

Thank gord and god I flunked all three and got a 1-Y reprieve before I got a high lotto #.

And its 1,2,3, what are we fightin for?

Don't ask me I don't give a damn.

Before you even get into civil liberties issues, a draft is a bad idea when there is no national policy that needs lots of new workers to execute. The trend, for better or for worse, is for fewer people getting a paycheck from the federal government (civilian or military). Also, unemployment is still higher than is seen as beneficial. Why is conscription necessary when the government's demand for labor is low and the supply of available workers is high?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/20/2014 05:24AM by nevermohio.

I was in the Army duringthe Reagan years and I can tell you that short of a major threat, the military doesn't want a draft. Because when people bitch, you just tell no one made you sign, you volunteered. There are just less problems without the draft.

Oh yeah, how I remember what lust arose in my young heart when I visited Israel in 81.

Raven haired babes in combat boots, fatigue pants and quite often a black tube top walking the streets

Betcha IDF soldiers seriously look out for each other's butts, be they whatever gender. Didn't wanna find out, I was OK with lookee no touchee.

Isreali chicks are badass. I wouldn't mess with one. They teach 'em Krav Maga.

Props. Seriously.