My "Court of Love" (I hate that reference by the way) was probably the single event that drove me away from the church. I was asked who all of my sexual partners were, then in detail what we did (the creep level here was absolutely disgusting), time frames, etc. All while my bishop and counselors recorded this down in a notebook (for his "record"). different men. In a roundabout way I'm grateful for this because it essentially drove me into studying the church and all of it's false teachings.
I've read a few posts and it seems like this is an ongoing issue in TSCC that needs to be addressed by a third party of some sorts. How is it that the church has yet to be busted for essentially emotionally (even sexually) abusing people who attend these disciplinary courts?
but has anyone gone to one of these "courts of love" and when asked who all of your sexual partners were, say, "Well, there was you (point to one) and you (point to another) and you, etc.," and basically tell each of them (lying, of course) that each one was a sexual partner and they therefore have a conflict of interest. Embarrass them all in front of them all.
michael Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > but has anyone gone to one of these "courts of > love" and when asked who all of your sexual > partners were, say, "Well, there was you (point to > one) and you (point to another) and you, etc.," > and basically tell each of them (lying, of course) > that each one was a sexual partner and they > therefore have a conflict of interest. Embarrass > them all in front of them all. > > It is "lying for the ," after all.
My wife is expecting and went into early labor. It was stopped with progesterone. contractions came back brieffly after the first incident, but everything's been under control. The main point of this is that I've been afraid to breathe deeply, much less to laugh.
Michael. your answer was so spot on that I laughed for about ten straight minutes while my inlaws were taking my wife for a walk in her wheelchair. God, that would be funny.
Wife is almost 27 weeks and cervix is holding strong, so we're just a few weeks from being out of the danger zone. Kid's heartbeat is strong and steady, and I swore he was giving me the finger during the last ultrasound, but my sweet and proper TBM mother was there, and she insisted I was seing things that were not really happening. I have a picture of him holding his fists up at the ultrasonographer two weeks ago. He appears to be an angry little boy.
Anyway, thanks for a great laugh, Michael. I can't wait to share it with a close family friend who is also a notanymo.
scmd Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Anyway, thanks for a great laugh, Michael. I can't wait to share it with a close family friend who is also a notanymo.
You're more than welcome. Glad I could be of help.
Did a court on love on my mission, didn't get asked about my sex life, I was an elder at the time and confessed to having heaps of fun with a girl I had meet, I told them more then they wanted to know, ie using the mission press wife's car to get some action, they asked if felt repentant I said no because I haven't done anything wrong, my mission prez had told me if I repented he would be able to be sent home without been Xed. I didn't care at this point, I had read way to much stuff online at this point, I was just happy to get my ticket home paid for.
I was a bit upset I didn't get Xed by an apostle seen as I was an elder and all, guess they have better things to do.
Missions prez was a cool guy, so was one other guys he picks to help him out, but the 3ed guy was a real nob, he kept telling me I know the church was true and I only said it wasn't because I wanted to sin, I told him that because he had played with his little factory that day he was lacking the spirit and unable to sense that I was telling the truth.
As a long believing TBM who was never in a bishopric or anyting of the sort....I had NO idea this kind of sh*t went on! The gal of men to ask details of this sort of thing.
My eyes have been opened to so many things I had no clue about in the church.
what is amazing here on RFM is the sheer number of people who have stories of humilition and abuse from local leaders. There is too much constistency to ever doubt people's honesty. I have my own story with a bishop court but am not likely to tell it beause it is humiliating.
rhgc Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I had a big advantage. Rather, two advantages. > First, it was the high council and secondly, I am > a trial attorney and knew the rules. I took > control.
They LIKE family history (invasions of privacy), record keeping, temptation and darkness, torture and abuse, guilt, fear and trauma, shame, punishment and reprisal. And more punishment.
Unless it is happening to them.
They don't practice what they preach or try shoes on the other feet.
I mighta had a little disciplinary Council when I was a kid. I'd sure like to remember what went on if so. Dicks!
I was in a bishopric. A youngish temple married mother had confessed sexual misconduct that the bishop decided warranted a court. She confessed to having started stripping at a local club then having all sorts of sex in all sorts of places.
We decided to put her on probation. She complained that her relatives had been excommunicated for less and she should be excommunicated. She wanted out but apparently didn't know she could just resign.
I think she made up the stripping sex story just to get excommunicated.
No story. One Sunday I cleanly tied up all my affairs with church callings, etc, talked with bish, eq pres, etc, to inform them I didn't believe the doctrine anymore and I no longer considered myself a member and would no longer be doing anything church related. From eq counselor to out in one day.
And I did just that. I've not been to an lds function, other than 2 or 3 lds funerals if they count, in over 20 years. I really, really don't get the drama exits and long farewells.
I didn't go to mine either. I wanted to go and if nothing else make sure everyone there knew all about the Church's real history. But I wasn't naive enough to think they wouldn't just shut me down right away. Would have been a waste of time and I wasn't going to let me refer to me as that excommunicated guy so I resigned a few days before on my terms.
It was only after about 45 minutes into my defense that I said anything to anger them and they had no evidence. I spoke for an hour straight before questions were asked and kept them awake and listening.
Went to my now EX's Disciplinary Court and witnessed the whole process. From that time forth I never gave Mormondum Authority over me. It's new name....the Court of Freedom.
As a member of a stake HC, I participated in two reconvenings, or coming back in. Both were painful beyond words, in spite of the SP doing the best he could be make it a good thing.
And I don't think the SP needed to read, word for word, the transcripts of the original court. I just did not need the details. And yes, they take copious notes and send it off to SLC forever! And even if you come back in, you membership record is notated, forever. Every bishop and clerk knows something happened at some point. You are never actually forgiven.
The only time I have been to Court o' Love was when I was a missionary in St. Vincent (Caribbean) and we ex'd a counselor in the branch presidency because he was a pedophile. The pedophile getting ex'd wasn't there.
Have no story, but do have a related question and observation.
I know in Sleezy Joe's time they excommunicated, but were there courts held also?
Also an observation. The Church-Cult's history is rampant with treating misbehaving members, apostates and people they wanted far away from Dodge with all sorts of unkindness, meanness and extensive violence. Joe did not care that he grabbed the widow's mite, the convert's meager savings, or stole another guy's wife. Maybe the gun hidden in a suit vest pocket is not nearly as prevalent as back then, but that is about all that has changed.
Here, read the original account -- it's my leaving story, but some comments about the disciplinary court are in there. Despicable what adults will do to a teenager.
Dogzilla, appreciate your posting your original story and your being brave enough to write and share this story. I had not read it before.
It is never easy in my book to pour out your heart story, filled with wrenching pain, that surfaces and boils over as you relive the past. Your hurt comes to the surface in your story and helps to remind all of us that time and counseling does and can bring relief and that happiness can prevail.
I was first counselor in a bishopric and was asked to sit in two of these. I left the church about a year later. There were other reasons too but this was the first nail in my testimony. I felt terrible. I couldn't see how making someone stop taking the sacrament made any sense. It's all about the atonement, right?It's only a method to cause pure public humiliation, I detest this church.
he said he would only excommunicate those overwhelmingly guilty of heinous crimes or those who requested excommunication because they thought it was their easiet was back onto the straight and narrow. The number of requests he had was zero, and he didn't have Ted Bundy , son of Sam, the Night stalker, Richard speck, Charles Manson or anyone of similar ilk in his ward, so he never exed anyone.
I don't have a story, but I have to say that I cannot believe they would actually use such an Orwellian term. "Court of Love??!!" Even when I was TBM, I remembering hearing this term for the first time and thought the person was just mocking. Then, a SP said it at the pulpit, and I was absolutely blown away that they would use that term. Didn't they see how ridiculous that sounded? Is this 1984? Are we on the Animal Farm? Still didn't realize for several years that yes, yes we were.