According to Brigham Young in the Journal of Discourses:

"Oliver says that when Joseph and Oliver went there, the hill opened, and they walked into a cave, in which there was a large and spacious room. He says he did not think, at the time, whether they had the light of the sun or artificial light; but that it was just as light as day. They laid the plates on a table; it was a large table that stood in the room. Under this table there was a pile of plates as much as two feet high, and there were altogether in this room more plates than probably many wagon loads; they were piled up in the corners and along the walls. The first time they went there the sword of Laban hung upon the wall; but when they went again it had been taken down and laid upon the table across the gold plates"

Now that TSCC has been out showing off historical documents, relics, etc., I wonder when they are going to make access to the cave available. Does anybody know what happened to it? Did it just cave in or is it sealed off? I can hardly wait to check it out.

Yeah, Oliver was in on the scam, no doubt.

As a TBM I looked for this when scouring the hill cumorah. I hoped for that moment where it opens and I get to experience something awesome. Alas nothing.

I do find it interesting that this recollection is cited as being from Oliver though. If the citation is true then it adds to the mystery. Was Oliver in on the scam and making stuff up to deepen the fraud. Was he persuaded to say this by joseph, perhaps after seeing it with his 'spiritual' eyes? Or is there something more to this?

All the evidence consistently points to fraud. But trying to make the pieces fit can be challenging.

It slipped away into the earth when someone spoke, thereby breaking the enchantment.

I think Bigfoot took it to the northwest somewhere in Oregon or Washington. It's a mobile cave, kind of like an RV. And the Lochness Monster was the one who took the gold plates away, not Moroni. BTW Nessie, as she's called, is good buddies with Puff the Magic Dragon. They both live by (or in) the sea.

It's almost better than Tolkien.

In a movie-guy deep voice:

"...but...when they went again...it had been taken down and laid upon the table...across the gold plates..."

It vanished into the mists of mythology.

I think it got moved to a vault in the Wasatch Mountains, here's a peak inside...

http://www.cbarks.dk/Billede/conblock3.JPG

Has anyone recounted this story to Peter Jackson? It would make a heck of an on going, never ending movie kind of like his two Hobbit trilogies. The only problem will be trying to figure out who the good guy is fighting the evil Mormon brethren. I think the cave was illuminated by the "Eye of Sauron."

"Helaman 13:33

33 O that I had repented, and had not killed the prophets, and stoned them, and cast them out. Yea, in that day ye shall say: O that we had remembered the Lord our God in the day that he gave us our riches, and then they would not have become slippery that we should lose them; for behold, our riches are gone from us."

We apostates have zero chance of finding it!

*grin*

Eye of Sauron. Snicker...

Since we have The Vault, which historians have visited and saw the Book of Mormon "objects" well, doesn't that settle it?

I understand they have the peepstone rock, the jupiter stone, the goggles and the sword (although no one reported seeing the sword). Grant Palmer says he and a few other historians were privileged to be allowed access.

Steve, what's the scoop on the objects?



Kathleen Waters

Goggles? The U&T spectacles? I've never heard that the church has them. Lucy said she felt the spectacles and breastplate through a cloth or something, so Joe might have had some kind of prop, but I don't believe anyone ever saw them. That's one "artifact" that you might find somewhere around Palmyra. Joe probably buried them or dumped them in the lake.

I don't believe anyone ever handled "Laban's sword", whether under a cloth or otherwise. Grant Palmer did say that he handled one of the peepstones. Joe warned Martin that he would die if he looked at his stone, but Grant got a good look and nothing happened...no light, no visions, no death.

Gordo looted it, sold everything on the illegal antiquities market to fund Shitty Creek. That's how they managed to avoid spending tithing money on it.

You too can see the cave dude. First you must spiritually cleanse yourself by retiring to the woods and searching out the fungi most magical. Collect these in all righteousness and bring them into your sanctuary. Allow them to rest from their labor s for a season while you fast for the further light and knowledge of The Lord. On the 16th day thou shalt partake of these sacred fruits while breaking thy fast, and then, if they eye be single to the glory of God thou shalt see the object of thy desire, even like unto Joseph and Oilver of old.

... But yet we found dinosaur bones which predate all mythical scriptures.

The hill is a glacial drumlin, basically piled up dirt and relatively small rock. It is definitely not the sort of material in which you would find a natural limestone cave. The Nephites could have dug a cave in the dirt, but it would need support timbers, which would have rotted out long before JS showed up.

Reality has a decidedly antiMormon bias.

There is a military technology used with either sonar or sound waves or some type of wave that reads the density of soil as it is looked at by drone or airplane flying overhead. It was used in the Iraq wars for locating bunkers underground to target them for the bunker blaster bombing. It is more common now that the technology is becoming more affordable to use in other industry.

The hill could be photographed for underground density that would show any buried metal like plates or concrete reinforced caves or even the more dense limestone or other stable material that would be needed to create a natural cave. It would show up clearly in contrast to the glacial drumlin that is on the hill.

Technology wins again. But the TBM's would claim god was just hiding more of the important stuff from them....even though he helps them find their car keys in a pinch.

Archaeology[edit]
See also: Geophysical survey (archaeology)

Ground penetrating radar can be used to map buried artifacts, such as graves, mortuaries, wreck sites, and other shallowly buried archaeological sites.

Ground magnetometric surveys can be used for detecting buried ferrous metals, useful in surveying shipwrecks, modern battlefields strewn with metal debris, and even subtle disturbances such as large-scale ancient ruins.

Sonar systems can be used to detect shipwrecks.

Forensics[edit]
Ground penetrating radar can be used to detect grave sites.

References:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploration_geophysics

I wonder if the church would allow a privately funded group with that radar tech to "comb" Cumorah?

Of course the money would be from someone who knew better but just wanted to embarrass the church. Prove that no bones or anything were in the hill or caves.