I've been reading your postings, and a Google search led me here. I work from home for an employer based in SLC, Utah. I live far far away. The CEO is a devout Mormon. I have never been Mormon. I never thought much about Mormonism.

I started to experience what felt like a form of ostracism and bullying at work, and co-workers and managers really, complaining and finding fault with every thing I do. I have always prided myself on being a hard worker and conscientious person.

I like my job, and I don't have to directly see or work with them except maybe twice a month.

I am a woman, over 40, never married, and no kids.

I started to notice the perfectionist if tendencies of managers, the emphasis on time management and Covey principles, etc. and the talking down to people. Not to mention, the higher ups in this company talk endlessly about their missions, their wards, etc. and let everyone know they are Mormon.

I don't want to lose my job. I have been directly confronting the bullying when it happens by calling it bullying and telling the bully to stop.

What are some strategies to use that work to preserve a good rapport with the Mormons? I fill a role that they probably can't find locally in SLC or they would have never hired me.

I was shocked by some of their insensitive comments toward me about being single with no kids. I was told that it was because they had their priorities in order, that they had family and career. One manager even said in a speech that she was determined to have her baby. She has five kids. Well, okay, so if a woman had a miscarriage or couldn't have children, she just wasn't determined enough or she just didn't have her priorities in order?

I am dating a nice man who is divorced and has a ten-year-old son, so I am prioritizing. It just didn't happen for me earlier. I don't like that I am so defensive and feeling so down on myself and my accomplishments in life, since to them, as a woman, I am a failure.

It isn't your fault. It's them.

There's no way to cut through their brainwashing. They won't get it.

I'm sorry you have to deal with this bullying.

Sounds like you're doing what you can to combat it.

It's mostly from the other women. I have more education and work experience than most. They seem to go out of their way to "prove" they can manage me. It's odd. I am an agreeable and easy person to get along with, so the emphasis on whether or not I will submit to their authority isn't necessary.

They're jealous. Especially if you're more educated

but if you want to keep your job, etc., don't engage them. Just be polite. Since you don't have to be around them too often, it should be doable. Making waves, given most of them are mormon, will probably end up with you losing your job.

The women are jealous. I was single until 27 in the lds church and the married women were ruthless. We would play softball against married wards and they'd yell out things like, "Look at her, she has 6 kids and she can still beat you guys at softball." We were playing for the fun of it. We had constant insults. I said something to a co-worker and he said, "So did you guys all drive up in nice cars, have the latest Niki's (1980s) on, newest fashions on for playing ball?"

I even had an old friend tell my sister how envious she was of me with my nice car, nice clothes, nice apartment, when she had FIVE children at home (before I ever even married).

After I got married and had kids, my SIL said to me, "We just wanted you to be as miserable as we are."

My daughter is almost 29 and on a 15 day cruise through the Panama Canal right now. Just got back from Disney World, then a trip to Michigan and Niagra Falls, after working for 5 months in Alaska (for the 7th year in a row). Her cruise is costing her $100 because she works for Princess. She has traveled extensively and does have a degree from college. She looks at her friends. She says she does want to get married, but she isn't impressed with her friends' lives or their husbands.

These women, if they had anything to really brag about, wouldn't be bragging. They just have to keep telling themselves they are happy and proving to you that "they have their priorities straight." In mormonism, if you have your priorities straight, you aren't working outside the home.

**I should add. I worked with many mormons as a secretary to a bunch of scientists and chemists. I was mormon at the time though. Didn't mean I was treated "fairly." The too TBM types had an attitude that a good girl wouldn't work at "Thiokol" and they treated me poorly. Most of the mormon men treated me well and I'm still friends with them to this day some 30 years later. BUT I did stand up to a few of the big mormon bosses and it didn't work out well. That is why I say be polite. I would have been better off not saying or doing anything at all. It didn't help my situation. It made it worse.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2014 10:44AM by cl2.

just remember those mormon bastards at Thiokol killed seven astronauts.

Mormons have little sensitivity or understanding or social norms/boundaries. Unless an individual is inclined to some self-reflection, it is doubtful that any of your comments will have the desired effect of reigning them in.

It has been my experience that when Mormon are the majority in an office, then the talk about missions, callings, etc is incessant. But when they are only 50% or less of the office, then all that stops.

You won't change them, so if you plan to stay in this position you need to find away to draw your boundaries without jeopardizing your job.

You need to document, document, document. Mormons may think they run the world they are subject to discrimination laws. A friend of mine worked for a local company and was fired after she left the church. She filed with the regional EEOC office in Arizona and won a very nice settlement thanks to her documentation and a co-worker who was willing to speak out on her behalf.

I wish I had better advice, just know that you are not imagining things.

Mormon culture leads to a lot of narcissism and, I think, sociopathy.

I'm sorry you have to put up with this. As others have said, you're probably handling it about as well as you can. I agree with cl2: just don't engage them, as far as it is possible. Best wishes.

If you're video conferencing, you might want to have some tolerable "Mormon art" visible, that even without reading it, it has the Mormon vibe - something like at this website: http://deseretbook.com/LDS-Art-Home/Home-Decor/Wall-Decor/s/164#q=&page=1&sort=popularity&facets=category:8%7Csub_category:164%7Cgroup:80

and

http://deseretbook.com/LDS-Art-Home/Home-Decor/Wall-Decor/s/164#q=&page=1&sort=popularity&facets=category:8%7Csub_category:164,1298%7Cgroup:80

This seems to give them a sense that you are one of them. You can use words like "The lord must have had a different path for me," or "The Lord must have wanted me to wait until I met <stepson>." Talk as little about your personal life as possible.

Mormon women can be very catty, and they can be especially nasty to nonMormon women, since you won't go tattle to their bishop or gossip at RS. It helps to use a happy, happy, joy, joy baby voice with them, like you're in high school, being all chipper and cheer-leady. Mormon women have very little value or power within Mormonism, and their insecurity and need for power comes out to the "gentiles." Mormons as a whole have difficulty with strong women. Try to mirror their behavior and use their buzz words and watch your tone of voice.

I agree to document everything.

Since you're female, the TBM males (regardless of their position) already think they have authority over you. Working your way up in the company will likely be difficult or impossible. You'll never get equal pay for equal work.

A friend told me about an experience where she, another female co-worker, and a male co-worker were tasked with finding a solution to a particular problem at work. She and the other woman agreed on solution A, while the male co-worker insisted that solution B was the answer.

The women held their ground and the male co-worker got so frustrated with their obstinacy he stood up and pronounced that since he held the priesthood they would have to go with his solution.

They just stared at him for a minute and then began to laugh. Humiliated by their disrespect to his authority, he stomped away.

I was frequently told (by peers) that I didn't need a raise as much as they did since I had no family to support - that I should be the fall guy for any failure.

I tried to turn it around by saying I needed to make MORE money than my Mormon peers because no one would be taking care of me in my old age.

Ultimately I left the job. This was in a large corporation in the 80's.

A very dark skinned lady told me that she had an advantage because the Mormon men didn't confuse her with their wives,

It is an international company, but this plant just happens to be in Logan, Utah. He is a never mo.

He has noticed that even the men defer to those men who have held or hold higher positions in the church. His boss defers to one of his coworkers who has been a stake president. He said the 2 previous SPs have all the power. The plant manager is a woman and she ever defers to them.

I'm lucky. I do work for a mormon woman, but she is NOTHING like this. Most of her workers are women and 3 of us are definitely exmormons and she doesn't care. We are probably 3 of her most favored employees.

Thank you for the advice. Being polite is my nature so that isn't difficult. Being submissive to authority and being respectful of a person's leadership authority is also not a problem for me.

My challenge has been when I am visibly and explicitly treated in a rude way. To me it's rude to not greet people or acknowledge someone's presence, to say "hi" back.

I don't understand the "baby talk." I have observed younger women in their 20s from all denominations using baby talk, to sound much younger than they are. I find it annoying, but, I also have a very soft spoken and child-like voice that people sometimes will not take seriously.

The more I think about, maybe that's why I was hired? I seem on the surface to be very Molly-Mo-ish, except that I am not at all traditional. I have a very artistic and creative side that has to come out once in a while. I also am a very strong writer, and my writing gets me taken seriously farther than the talking.

"I am dating a nice man who is divorced and has a ten-year-old son, so I am prioritizing. It just didn't happen for me earlier. I don't like that I am so defensive and feeling so down on myself and my accomplishments in life, since to them, as a woman, I am a failure."

This is so wrong! You are being influenced by the Mormon philosophy, that women are second-class citizens, and the Mormon idea that there is only one way to live! Do not give their thinking or their advice any respect--this is not a healthy religion. Mormons claim to put family first, but they do not.

Mormons have no boundaries.

I'm a divorced single working mother, working in Utah. When I first moved to Utah, I decided to draw up a set of boundaries, in dealing with various people in my workplace. Boundaries are necessary. You can change them, and they can be be flexible, when you want them to be--but you need boundaries.

How do your co-workers know about your dating life? How do they know you have no children? You do not ever have to tell them anything about your personal life. You can smile and say, "Well, that's personal", or, "I don't usually talk about things like that." Mormons want to know how much money you have, what kind of house and how much it is worth, what car you drive, what your husband and children do for a living, your dating/marriage history--things that no one needs to know!

One Mormon woman in our ward is especially nosey, and she asked me if my daughter was planning on having more children, since her oldest was getting to be 4. Where I was raised, sex and baby-planning were forbidden subjects. I said in horror, "I would never ask my daughter that question! Please, don't you ask her that question, either!" The truth was, that my daughter had suffered three miscarriages in a row, and couldn't have any more children. The neighbor's question upset me so much that I went into my house and cried.

Utah Mormons are rude--honestly they are--so don't take it personally. If you expect them to be rude, they won't take you off guard, and they won't be able to hurt your feelings so much. Whenever someone mentioned my divorced state, or gave their opinion that my 38-year-old son should be married, If I had to work with that person, I would just say, "Well...." You can't explain yourself to someone who is incapable of understanding.

Someone on this board said, "You can't be reasonable with unreasonable people."

Don't try to teach them or change them socially. They are work colleagues, and be very polite and kind to them as such. If they talk about themselves, they will appreciate a good listener. If you update them on the progress of your romance, they could even use that information against you.

I have had to be very closed with my Mormon family. I'm not rude, but I don't share much with them. "I'm fine...doing the same old things." "Work is work, but I like it."

Don't try to make them your friends. Friends don't think you are a failure.

Which YOU ARE NOT!! I can tell by your post that you are a SUCCESS! Did you know that studies show that single women are happier than married women? I'm happiest being unmarried.

Companies who are run like yours need a little lawsuit to clean up the situation properly. Check out the EEO:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_Employment_Opportunity_Commission

Mormon's think they have the answer to finding life's happiness. They want everyone to do things the way they do, or else you are wrong.

I would just tell them there is more than one way to skin a cat, right or wrong, you are doing it your way.

Oh boy! You're automatically the "outsider" because you are not LDS, and to top it off, you're still single and don't have any children. In the Mormon World View, that puts you at a disadvantage in their mind.

The only advice I think will work, is to not engage them on anything but the work. Ignore the rest. They are like a bunch of mad dogs and will attack in mass if you rile them up.

Calling them on anything can be disastrous. Why? Because they live in an imaginary world of their own making that is bolstered by their religious views of the world. They have no -- NO -- normal boundaries. They will talk about you and the more negative the better in their view. You are not "WORTHY" in their view and will go out of their way to tell you so!!

Then, I'd actively work at finding another job. These people will destroy you if you look at them the wrong way, so to speak.

IF there is some actual "hostile work environment" going on that can be documented then keep track of it.

They most often need a nice big law suit to clean up their nasty habits. But then they go right back to everything "as usual" once it's over.

Women are not in charge, but men are. The men can be dominating, authoritative, condescending, rude and have no clue what they are doing as it's how they have been taught they are supposed to act. There is often a wide chasm between what their religion teaches and the behavior and attitudes of the male members.

And last of all: refuse to take anything personally. They are experts at nit-picking and trying to elicit an emotional response that they can use against you.

Keep Your Sense of Humor while you work for these misfits!

This original post is a year old.

She was fired in November of 2014, after complaining to the CEO about how patriarchal all the women were acting. She then turned to writing, and sold her first novel, "Fifty Shades of Flourescent Green." She got a nice advance, but the book never found a place in the market.