Recovery Board
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Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum.
This happened a while back but the Mormon arrogance still stays with me.
One fast Sunday both the Bishop AND his wife went up to the podium to brag about their son choosing "to keep Sabbath day holy" by not swimming in his final meet. They made it seem like they gave their son a choice whether to participate or not, but I'm pretty sure the kid caved in to parental pressure. He surely felt the need to "set an example" as the Bishop's son. So he stayed home and his team lost.
Despite the crushing loss, everyone in the ward was so proud of this kid for his righteous choice. Personally, I didn't applaud his commitment to the gospel. The Bishop's son let his teammates down. He let his whole school down. And then his parents publicly bragged about what a great Mormon he was.
I wonder how his teammates felt about Mormonism after their loss. I'm pretty sure they weren't impressed.
;o)
One fast Sunday both the Bishop AND his wife went up to the podium to brag about their son choosing "to keep Sabbath day holy" by not swimming in his final meet. They made it seem like they gave their son a choice whether to participate or not, but I'm pretty sure the kid caved in to parental pressure. He surely felt the need to "set an example" as the Bishop's son. So he stayed home and his team lost.
Despite the crushing loss, everyone in the ward was so proud of this kid for his righteous choice. Personally, I didn't applaud his commitment to the gospel. The Bishop's son let his teammates down. He let his whole school down. And then his parents publicly bragged about what a great Mormon he was.
I wonder how his teammates felt about Mormonism after their loss. I'm pretty sure they weren't impressed.
;o)
So selfish of the tbm kids to join a team for which they KNOW they cannot fulfill the requirements! Makes me sick.
The problem that I have with this story and the many, many other stories just like it that I've heard over the years, is that when the kid decided to join swim team, he knew that he would most likely have to compete on Sunday. He shouldn't have joined the team in the first place if he didn't want to participate on Sunday.
I think he shouldn't have been allowed on the team if the coach determined he would be unable to fulfill all the commitments. That's just life, man.
Mormons: Holding out for their own since 1830.
I forgot to add, the Bishop's son was the team's star swimmer. If he'd competed, they would have probably won.
;o)
;o)
shannon Wrote:
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> I forgot to add, the Bishop's son was the team's star swimmer. If he'd competed, they would have probably won.
>
> ;o)
If that were the case, then if the kid had not participated on the swim team at all (as some have suggested here that he shouldn't have), then without him during the swim season, the team would not have been in a position to vie for the championship in the first place. Correct??
So was it better to have him on the team so the team would have a chance for the championship (albeit without him), or not to have him at all and not even reach a championship round?
I don't know about you, but if I'm a member of the swim team, I wouldn't mind a chance at a championship with or without him.
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> I forgot to add, the Bishop's son was the team's star swimmer. If he'd competed, they would have probably won.
>
> ;o)
If that were the case, then if the kid had not participated on the swim team at all (as some have suggested here that he shouldn't have), then without him during the swim season, the team would not have been in a position to vie for the championship in the first place. Correct??
So was it better to have him on the team so the team would have a chance for the championship (albeit without him), or not to have him at all and not even reach a championship round?
I don't know about you, but if I'm a member of the swim team, I wouldn't mind a chance at a championship with or without him.
Mormons are not team players, they may join a team and talk team talk, but their loyalties are to their tribe. This is how I was, it has been painstaking work to try and change this quality.
If my confidence in this statement is not merited, I welcome hearing otherwise. If I were building a team I would not choose Mormons, unless I wanted drones.
If my confidence in this statement is not merited, I welcome hearing otherwise. If I were building a team I would not choose Mormons, unless I wanted drones.
One of my bishops had a son who was a star swimmer too. He gave up a very real shot at the Olympics (yeah, he was that good) to serve a mission. When he came back, he decided to focus on college and starting a family instead of resurrecting his swimming career. I think one of the most horrible aspects of Mormonism is the potential it steals from it's members in order to get them to service the church. What this boy might have been if he hadn't felt obligated by guilt, family pressure and brainwashing, was given up to benefit a church that's lying to him about what they really are. I wonder if he will ever figure the church out because if he admits it's a fraud, he will have to admit to himself what he sacrificed in vain.
And don't even get me started about the older, single, never-married Mormon friends I have who would have loved to be wives and mothers but wouldn't give up their dream of a temple marriage or believe better men existed outside the church. They gave up their dreams of a family to pursue the dream of a temple marriage and for what? I'm not talking about people who never much wanted marriage and a family in the first place, I'm talking about people who sacrificed one dream for a Mormon temple lie.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2014 01:51PM by CA girl.
And don't even get me started about the older, single, never-married Mormon friends I have who would have loved to be wives and mothers but wouldn't give up their dream of a temple marriage or believe better men existed outside the church. They gave up their dreams of a family to pursue the dream of a temple marriage and for what? I'm not talking about people who never much wanted marriage and a family in the first place, I'm talking about people who sacrificed one dream for a Mormon temple lie.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2014 01:51PM by CA girl.
I didn't get to play little league or pop warner football when I was a kid -- because both occasionally had practices or games on Sundays, and my mom wouldn't stand for that.
Shortly after trying out for, and making as a starter, a pop warner football team when I was 10, and then having my mom pull the rug out from under me and make me quit when she found out about Sunday games, my dad was watching TV, and famous mormon golfer Johnny Miller won a PGA match. On a Sunday. We sat and watched it.
So I asked my mom, "How come it's OK for him to play golf on Sundays, but it's not OK for me to play football?"
"He's doing missionary work by showing people what mormons can do" was the reply I got.
Stupid cult.
Shortly after trying out for, and making as a starter, a pop warner football team when I was 10, and then having my mom pull the rug out from under me and make me quit when she found out about Sunday games, my dad was watching TV, and famous mormon golfer Johnny Miller won a PGA match. On a Sunday. We sat and watched it.
So I asked my mom, "How come it's OK for him to play golf on Sundays, but it's not OK for me to play football?"
"He's doing missionary work by showing people what mormons can do" was the reply I got.
Stupid cult.
Fantastic for the kid. BRAVO!! He stuck up for his priciples and he will be able to look himself in the mirror and know that he was true to himself. This is the type of kid I would want on my team whether it be in sports or in life.
Having participated in many team sports in my day, I ALWAYS made it clear to my coaches upfront that I would not participate in Sunday games or events, take it or leave it. They ALWAYS took it. I highly doubt that this kid did not inform his coaches likewise. I doubt it was just dropped on them.
Mormon major league pitcher Vern Law refused to pitch on Sunday games. Sandy Koufax refused to pitch on Jewish holidays, even those that fell on dates during the World Series. What this kid did is not unusual.
Holding on to one's personal beliefs and integrity FAR outweigh some stinking little swim championship. Would the team had been better off with out during the regular season? Hell, the team might not have even made it to the championship round without him in the first place. Good for the kid.
Having participated in many team sports in my day, I ALWAYS made it clear to my coaches upfront that I would not participate in Sunday games or events, take it or leave it. They ALWAYS took it. I highly doubt that this kid did not inform his coaches likewise. I doubt it was just dropped on them.
Mormon major league pitcher Vern Law refused to pitch on Sunday games. Sandy Koufax refused to pitch on Jewish holidays, even those that fell on dates during the World Series. What this kid did is not unusual.
Holding on to one's personal beliefs and integrity FAR outweigh some stinking little swim championship. Would the team had been better off with out during the regular season? Hell, the team might not have even made it to the championship round without him in the first place. Good for the kid.
Mr. Happy Wrote:
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> Fantastic for the kid. BRAVO!! He stuck up for
> his priciples and he will be able to look himself
> in the mirror and know that he was true to
> himself. This is the type of kid I would want on
> my team whether it be in sports or in life.
He was "true" to a cult, not to himself.
Absent the cult (and parental) peer pressure, if you sat this kid down and asked him if he would have preferred to go swim, and help out his team, odds are really good he would have. He caved to pressure to conform, he wasn't "true to himself."
And if that's the kind of person you like, fine. Me, I prefer people who don't mindlessly give into peer/cult pressure, but who evaluate their positions rationally and honestly -- and make supportable, rational decisions. Had this kid done so, even as a mormon, he could have referenced all the mormon sports stars who are given *permission* by the church to do their sports on Sundays, and realize that the church's position is arbitrary, irrational, and selectively applied -- and so shouldn't have been a factor in his decision.
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> Fantastic for the kid. BRAVO!! He stuck up for
> his priciples and he will be able to look himself
> in the mirror and know that he was true to
> himself. This is the type of kid I would want on
> my team whether it be in sports or in life.
He was "true" to a cult, not to himself.
Absent the cult (and parental) peer pressure, if you sat this kid down and asked him if he would have preferred to go swim, and help out his team, odds are really good he would have. He caved to pressure to conform, he wasn't "true to himself."
And if that's the kind of person you like, fine. Me, I prefer people who don't mindlessly give into peer/cult pressure, but who evaluate their positions rationally and honestly -- and make supportable, rational decisions. Had this kid done so, even as a mormon, he could have referenced all the mormon sports stars who are given *permission* by the church to do their sports on Sundays, and realize that the church's position is arbitrary, irrational, and selectively applied -- and so shouldn't have been a factor in his decision.
ificouldhietokolob Wrote:
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> He was "true" to a cult, not to himself.
Perhaps you need to re-read the OP. It states the parents gave the kid a choice. Weather he made the right decision, wrong decision, a decision you agree or disagree with, or whether he "caved", or gave in to years of brainwashing...it was HIS decision based on HIS beliefs. His beliefs may have been wrong...or misplaced...but they were HIS beliefs. True to himself.
> Absent the cult (and parental) peer pressure, if you sat this kid down and asked him if he would have preferred to go swim, and help out his team, odds are really good he would have.
That was NEVER my experience. Being a TBM at the time, I had NO PROBLEM walking away. I doubt this kid did either.
> Me, I prefer people who don't mindlessly give into peer/cult pressure...
Interesting comment since you are talking about a kid mindlessly giving into the peer pressure to participate in a swim meet.
>Had this kid done so, even as a mormon, he could have referenced all the mormon sports stars who are given *permission* by the church to do their sports on Sundays, and realize that the church's position is arbitrary, irrational, and selectively applied -- and so shouldn't have been a factor in his decision.
What is this *permission* you are talking about? Are you talking about the Mormon sports stars who participate in sports on Sunday as their livelihood? No different than other members who work non-sports jobs on Sundays to support themselves and their families? Are you trying to compare a a high schooler on a swim team to someone earning a living? Really??
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> He was "true" to a cult, not to himself.
Perhaps you need to re-read the OP. It states the parents gave the kid a choice. Weather he made the right decision, wrong decision, a decision you agree or disagree with, or whether he "caved", or gave in to years of brainwashing...it was HIS decision based on HIS beliefs. His beliefs may have been wrong...or misplaced...but they were HIS beliefs. True to himself.
> Absent the cult (and parental) peer pressure, if you sat this kid down and asked him if he would have preferred to go swim, and help out his team, odds are really good he would have.
That was NEVER my experience. Being a TBM at the time, I had NO PROBLEM walking away. I doubt this kid did either.
> Me, I prefer people who don't mindlessly give into peer/cult pressure...
Interesting comment since you are talking about a kid mindlessly giving into the peer pressure to participate in a swim meet.
>Had this kid done so, even as a mormon, he could have referenced all the mormon sports stars who are given *permission* by the church to do their sports on Sundays, and realize that the church's position is arbitrary, irrational, and selectively applied -- and so shouldn't have been a factor in his decision.
What is this *permission* you are talking about? Are you talking about the Mormon sports stars who participate in sports on Sunday as their livelihood? No different than other members who work non-sports jobs on Sundays to support themselves and their families? Are you trying to compare a a high schooler on a swim team to someone earning a living? Really??
Mr. Happy Wrote:
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> Perhaps you need to re-read the OP. It states the
> parents gave the kid a choice. Weather he made
> the right decision, wrong decision, a decision you
> agree or disagree with, or whether he "caved", or
> gave in to years of brainwashing...it was HIS
> decision based on HIS beliefs. His beliefs may
> have been wrong...or misplaced...but they were HIS
> beliefs. True to himself.
Oh, you betcha. Parents sitting the kid down, and saying, "Now, son, it's your decision, but of course you don't want to disobey the church's teachings, disappoint god, and start down a road of evil that will lead to your destruction, now do you? Of course not. We know you'll make the "right choice."
Haven't you ever BEEN in the morg? This is how they get people to go against their "beliefs" and *obey.*
> That was NEVER my experience. Being a TBM at the
> time, I had NO PROBLEM walking away. I doubt this
> kid did either.
I doubt your doubt. That was ALWAYS my experience. And that of every kid I grew up with.
> Interesting comment since you are talking about a
> kid mindlessly giving into the peer pressure to
> participate in a swim meet.
Yeah, that was the point...
> What is this *permission* you are talking about?
> Are you talking about the Mormon sports stars who
> participate in sports on Sunday as their
> livelihood? No different than other members who
> work non-sports jobs on Sundays to support
> themselves and their families? Are you trying to
> compare a a high schooler on a swim team to
> someone earning a living? Really??
What does "a living" have to do with it? The church doctrine is no work or play or "worldly activities" on Sundays. Whether that's a high school swim meet or a job at McDonald's or playing professional football. I, as a teen, worked one Sunday at my fast food job (ONE sunday, ever) -- and was called into the bishop's office and chastised for doing so.
As for "permission," Steve Young was asked about him playing on Sundays and if it contradicted his religion -- he said that while it did "technically," he had asked for a received "permission" to do so from his church leaders. So he wasn't "sinning." Now, Steve could have chosen thousands of professions where he didn't have to work on Sundays -- he specifically chose one that worked *every* Sunday. And got permission to do so from church leaders.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Perhaps you need to re-read the OP. It states the
> parents gave the kid a choice. Weather he made
> the right decision, wrong decision, a decision you
> agree or disagree with, or whether he "caved", or
> gave in to years of brainwashing...it was HIS
> decision based on HIS beliefs. His beliefs may
> have been wrong...or misplaced...but they were HIS
> beliefs. True to himself.
Oh, you betcha. Parents sitting the kid down, and saying, "Now, son, it's your decision, but of course you don't want to disobey the church's teachings, disappoint god, and start down a road of evil that will lead to your destruction, now do you? Of course not. We know you'll make the "right choice."
Haven't you ever BEEN in the morg? This is how they get people to go against their "beliefs" and *obey.*
> That was NEVER my experience. Being a TBM at the
> time, I had NO PROBLEM walking away. I doubt this
> kid did either.
I doubt your doubt. That was ALWAYS my experience. And that of every kid I grew up with.
> Interesting comment since you are talking about a
> kid mindlessly giving into the peer pressure to
> participate in a swim meet.
Yeah, that was the point...
> What is this *permission* you are talking about?
> Are you talking about the Mormon sports stars who
> participate in sports on Sunday as their
> livelihood? No different than other members who
> work non-sports jobs on Sundays to support
> themselves and their families? Are you trying to
> compare a a high schooler on a swim team to
> someone earning a living? Really??
What does "a living" have to do with it? The church doctrine is no work or play or "worldly activities" on Sundays. Whether that's a high school swim meet or a job at McDonald's or playing professional football. I, as a teen, worked one Sunday at my fast food job (ONE sunday, ever) -- and was called into the bishop's office and chastised for doing so.
As for "permission," Steve Young was asked about him playing on Sundays and if it contradicted his religion -- he said that while it did "technically," he had asked for a received "permission" to do so from his church leaders. So he wasn't "sinning." Now, Steve could have chosen thousands of professions where he didn't have to work on Sundays -- he specifically chose one that worked *every* Sunday. And got permission to do so from church leaders.
**facepalm**
ificouldhietokolob Wrote:
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> As for "permission," Steve Young was asked about him playing on Sundays and if it contradicted his religion -- he said that while it did "technically," he had asked for a received "permission" to do so from his church leaders. So he wasn't "sinning." Now, Steve could have chosen thousands of professions where he didn't have to work on Sundays -- he specifically chose one that worked *every* Sunday. And got permission to do so from church leaders.
Here, give this a try (this site wouldn't allow me to post the link so here is a paragraph that is cut and pasted) -
"It took quite a while to find an answer, but I got one. Interestingly enough, it didn't come from my searching. It came in the form of an essay written by one of Steve's friends in response to criticism of Steve by a member of the church. In the essay Steve's friend explains that the decision to play for the NFL and consequently play on Sunday was Steve's and Steve's alone. Steve did visit briefly with Elder Neal A. Maxwell of the Quorom of the Twelve Apostles, but Elder Maxwell left the decision entirely up to Steve after giving him some council of his own. This rings true to me since the brethren have always taught us that we need to make our own decisions using our own agency. Steve chose ON HIS OWN to play for the NFL. Since the time when he made his decision, he seems to have come to regret it. However, he has a contract that he has to honor now and feels that his integrity in honoring his contract is very important. He is aware that many in the church frown on his playing on Sunday and it bothers him alot. He wishes he weren't in the situation at all. He does make a point of having some sort of worship service sometime during the week if he can't get to one on Sunday."
Ya know...when I was a TBM I used to believe the wildest faith promoting stories that came my way because I wanted them to validate my membership. After I left the church, for a while I believed the wildest anti-church stories because I wanted them to validate my non-membership. It took me a while to realize that just like the church made a lot of things up, so did the ex/anti-Mormons. Now I verify EVERYTHING.
Best of luck to you ificouldhietokolob. Stick around this place a while. Good luck to you on your recovery.
ificouldhietokolob Wrote:
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> As for "permission," Steve Young was asked about him playing on Sundays and if it contradicted his religion -- he said that while it did "technically," he had asked for a received "permission" to do so from his church leaders. So he wasn't "sinning." Now, Steve could have chosen thousands of professions where he didn't have to work on Sundays -- he specifically chose one that worked *every* Sunday. And got permission to do so from church leaders.
Here, give this a try (this site wouldn't allow me to post the link so here is a paragraph that is cut and pasted) -
"It took quite a while to find an answer, but I got one. Interestingly enough, it didn't come from my searching. It came in the form of an essay written by one of Steve's friends in response to criticism of Steve by a member of the church. In the essay Steve's friend explains that the decision to play for the NFL and consequently play on Sunday was Steve's and Steve's alone. Steve did visit briefly with Elder Neal A. Maxwell of the Quorom of the Twelve Apostles, but Elder Maxwell left the decision entirely up to Steve after giving him some council of his own. This rings true to me since the brethren have always taught us that we need to make our own decisions using our own agency. Steve chose ON HIS OWN to play for the NFL. Since the time when he made his decision, he seems to have come to regret it. However, he has a contract that he has to honor now and feels that his integrity in honoring his contract is very important. He is aware that many in the church frown on his playing on Sunday and it bothers him alot. He wishes he weren't in the situation at all. He does make a point of having some sort of worship service sometime during the week if he can't get to one on Sunday."
Ya know...when I was a TBM I used to believe the wildest faith promoting stories that came my way because I wanted them to validate my membership. After I left the church, for a while I believed the wildest anti-church stories because I wanted them to validate my non-membership. It took me a while to realize that just like the church made a lot of things up, so did the ex/anti-Mormons. Now I verify EVERYTHING.
Best of luck to you ificouldhietokolob. Stick around this place a while. Good luck to you on your recovery.
Mr. Happy Wrote:
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> **facepalm**
I listened to Steve do an interview on KNBR radio in San Francisco. He was asked about working on Sundays. He said he consulted a church GA, and was told it was his decision, up to his own "free agency." But he was worried about his "priesthood status," so he asked if playing football on Sunday would impact that, and the GA told him it would not.
I'll take what I heard from Steve himself over a "friend." :)
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> **facepalm**
I listened to Steve do an interview on KNBR radio in San Francisco. He was asked about working on Sundays. He said he consulted a church GA, and was told it was his decision, up to his own "free agency." But he was worried about his "priesthood status," so he asked if playing football on Sunday would impact that, and the GA told him it would not.
I'll take what I heard from Steve himself over a "friend." :)
Why does sitting around on Sundays have to be one of the "Principles" one might adopt? It seems rather arbitrary and not at all basic to a good life. Principles that are basic to a good life might be honesty, kindness, compassion, etc.
What I noticed in the morg was that Sunday's were fraught with busy work, boredom, men carrying briefcases into church for their meetings all day long. As a kid I was never restricted from playing outside or anything. Years later it seems incongruous that my nephews were prevented from playing outside, but could lie around in front of the TV and watch BOM war videos.
If you really want to observe a day of rest, quit the morg.
What I noticed in the morg was that Sunday's were fraught with busy work, boredom, men carrying briefcases into church for their meetings all day long. As a kid I was never restricted from playing outside or anything. Years later it seems incongruous that my nephews were prevented from playing outside, but could lie around in front of the TV and watch BOM war videos.
If you really want to observe a day of rest, quit the morg.
"Mormon major league pitcher Vern Law refused to pitch on Sunday games."
This statement is total bulls***. Don't know where you got it, but it could not be more wrong.
Vern Law started 364 major league games. Here is the breakdown of his starts by weekday (source Retrosheet):
Sun - 94
Mon - 20
Tue - 44
Wed - 50
Thu - 39
Fri - 47
Sat - 70
He also relieved in 30 other games on Sunday (25.2% of his 119 relief appearances).
But you are right about Koufax. Hank Greenberg also refused to play on Yom Kippur.
This statement is total bulls***. Don't know where you got it, but it could not be more wrong.
Vern Law started 364 major league games. Here is the breakdown of his starts by weekday (source Retrosheet):
Sun - 94
Mon - 20
Tue - 44
Wed - 50
Thu - 39
Fri - 47
Sat - 70
He also relieved in 30 other games on Sunday (25.2% of his 119 relief appearances).
But you are right about Koufax. Hank Greenberg also refused to play on Yom Kippur.
Not an isolated event. My son played on a soccer team with one other mormon boy. The regional championship was on Sunday. Come game time, the other mormon boy did not show up (knowing his abusive parents, I wasn't surprised). I was ok with it, but they didn't even have the courtesy to tell the coach he wasn't going to be there. Had we not let our son play, they would have forfeited. Now that would have been some positive missionary work. I agree…stupid cult!
I keep hearing about this happening here, and wonder why districts haven't implemented a points-based activity or participation system to avoid it?
Show up, get points, everyone gets the same points as anyone else. Just show up. If you can't dress or even play, no problem; just show up and you get the points. Choose not to show up to any scheduled date for the team, you lose the points for that date.
If at the end of the year you did not earn enough points, you do not get to play in that same or lead position, next year. You can still make the team at tryouts, you just don't get the usual or desired spot, all things being equal. If you have fewer points than the other guy trying to take it away from you and your play is equal to his, too bad. You lose.
Goes for band, chorus, football, swimming, whatever. The season is as scheduled and all dates are provided to you at the start. You and your parents sign a statement that says if you choose for any reason not to attend any meet or any other activity scheduled for the team, you lose that day's points. And meets and practices and games are all over the map, not always on the same day for each and every week.
So, Jewish kids or JWs could choose to miss on a Friday or Saturday, and some Christians could choose to do so on a Wednesday or a Sunday. Or choose only to miss if the Sunday in question is, say, Easter or other big holiday--but show up on all other Sundays, if they wish.
Their choice, all the way around. Points for showing up accrue or get lost, however they or their parents decide.
This system might help reduce misses when mom and dad pull one kid from an important event to go attend another kid's equal or lesser event, too. Or, can help the kid whose parents favor the star kid in an individual sport in their family, over another one who may not be as great, but whose effort or position is integral to the success of a team.
It might not change anything. Might not work. Just an idea.
Show up, get points, everyone gets the same points as anyone else. Just show up. If you can't dress or even play, no problem; just show up and you get the points. Choose not to show up to any scheduled date for the team, you lose the points for that date.
If at the end of the year you did not earn enough points, you do not get to play in that same or lead position, next year. You can still make the team at tryouts, you just don't get the usual or desired spot, all things being equal. If you have fewer points than the other guy trying to take it away from you and your play is equal to his, too bad. You lose.
Goes for band, chorus, football, swimming, whatever. The season is as scheduled and all dates are provided to you at the start. You and your parents sign a statement that says if you choose for any reason not to attend any meet or any other activity scheduled for the team, you lose that day's points. And meets and practices and games are all over the map, not always on the same day for each and every week.
So, Jewish kids or JWs could choose to miss on a Friday or Saturday, and some Christians could choose to do so on a Wednesday or a Sunday. Or choose only to miss if the Sunday in question is, say, Easter or other big holiday--but show up on all other Sundays, if they wish.
Their choice, all the way around. Points for showing up accrue or get lost, however they or their parents decide.
This system might help reduce misses when mom and dad pull one kid from an important event to go attend another kid's equal or lesser event, too. Or, can help the kid whose parents favor the star kid in an individual sport in their family, over another one who may not be as great, but whose effort or position is integral to the success of a team.
It might not change anything. Might not work. Just an idea.
And yet the church keeps its many radio stations running, TV stations running, newspapers printed and delivered, live TV shows broadcast sunday morning (which could easily be taped on saturday)....the list goes on and on.
Sabbath observance is for the little people, not the corporate church. I am sure the church's employees would love sundays off, but $ comes first.
Sabbath observance is for the little people, not the corporate church. I am sure the church's employees would love sundays off, but $ comes first.
What about Steve Young? Why does he get a free pass and not this kid?
Because of the money would earn by playing pro football, 10% of which goes to tssc.
danboyle "And yet the church keeps its many radio stations running, ....."
I like listening to the "Spoken Word" on Sunday morning while I walk the dog. Reminds me of driving to Montpelier, ID when I lived in Afton, WY to go to Mass. Star Valley was 99%+ LDS when I was there and lots were watching so see if I made my trek after partying on Saturday nights. The SW was the only thing I could find on the radio.
In three weeks, it'll be the 4,444 broadcast of the SW. I'm a number freak.
I like listening to the "Spoken Word" on Sunday morning while I walk the dog. Reminds me of driving to Montpelier, ID when I lived in Afton, WY to go to Mass. Star Valley was 99%+ LDS when I was there and lots were watching so see if I made my trek after partying on Saturday nights. The SW was the only thing I could find on the radio.
In three weeks, it'll be the 4,444 broadcast of the SW. I'm a number freak.
This is all the faith promoting story BS. Like I had to give a toast at a work function and they know I don't drink and I told them I was mormon and didn't and then they all told me how great I was for standing up for my beliefs and they were converted. No one cares if you drink or not. I have given dozens of toasts and have been offered many drinks. No one cares !!! I don't drink but I love me some hippie lettuce.
Mormons love to play the victims. Everyone is out to get them. No one cares!
Mormons love to play the victims. Everyone is out to get them. No one cares!
Keeping the Sabbath day(which is technically Saturday but that's a whole 'nother discussion) holy is one commandment that most mormons are guilty of ignoring. Sunday is the busiest day of the week for a mormon, esp if you have a leadership position. You've got ward correlation meeting, presidency meeting, 3 hours of church meetings, home teaching, preparing the lesson for next week, etc etc. That's not what I call a day of rest. Going to a swim meet or playing in a baseball game is a day of rest and relaxation compared to going to FIVE hours (or more)of church on Sunday!
Unless the rules have completely changed for meets, how could it be such a crushing defeat? Swimmers participate in a limited number of events, as allowed by the rules. Unless he was the only excellent swimmer on the team, it seems odd that the whole team would get their asses handed to them because he sat that one out. Points are added up depending on who places where in the various events.
I think you could only do 4 events, like two individual and two relays, but the rules may be different for boys' teams and/or areas. It almost sounds like an FPL, though.
ETA: If it was the last meet, chances are the team would get their butts kicked anyway. Most final meets are comprised of several competing schools in the area, like 5, 8, 10 or more. Unless your team has mostly strong swimmers who can place in 2nd or 1st, you're not going to win the meet.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2014 07:02PM by Itzpapalotl.
I think you could only do 4 events, like two individual and two relays, but the rules may be different for boys' teams and/or areas. It almost sounds like an FPL, though.
ETA: If it was the last meet, chances are the team would get their butts kicked anyway. Most final meets are comprised of several competing schools in the area, like 5, 8, 10 or more. Unless your team has mostly strong swimmers who can place in 2nd or 1st, you're not going to win the meet.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2014 07:02PM by Itzpapalotl.
Agree. I was on the state championship swim team my senior year of HS. One star swimmer could never have won the meet. Indeed our star medley relay team was disqualified at the beginning of the meet. It was the best thing that happened. It brought everyone together. People swam harder. Everyone knew it would be a team effort to get "back" those points that were lost when the relay team was disqualified.
The loss of a single swimmer is no excuse. The team could have used it to unite themselves to win.
I also agree with Mr. Happy. It is nice to see students who stand up for their beliefs. As a TBM in HS, no amount of pressure from my parents would have been required to get me to make the "right" choice from a Mormon perspective.
The loss of a single swimmer is no excuse. The team could have used it to unite themselves to win.
I also agree with Mr. Happy. It is nice to see students who stand up for their beliefs. As a TBM in HS, no amount of pressure from my parents would have been required to get me to make the "right" choice from a Mormon perspective.
If you had won state in your event, that wouldn't mean you won the meet. You don't win or lose because an individual swimmer decides to cop out.
I remember being given the "choice" of whether or not to do things. If i picked right, everything was ok. If i picked wrong, either I wasn;t allowed to do it, or was guilted and pressured into changing my mind. Just sayin. Maybe this kid made the choice himself, maybe not.
Oh no, where the bucket, time for me to vomit again. Mormons really need to get over themselves. They probably would have lost regardless if he did or did not swim at the completion. I have never know a group of such proud, arrogate, self-righteous pagans. The sad thing is they do not realize that they are Satan’s favorite breakfast food, he just loves to devour self-righteous, fake, and sugar coated Mormons.
the kid and his parents are totally wrong.
the sabbath is saturday.
the sabbath is saturday.
You're not keeping the sabbath holy if you brag about keeping the sabbath holy.
Exactly. Bragging about keeping the Sabbath holy is not keeping it holy at all.
Steve Young would have participated. He CHOSE a career that required Sunday work and is loved by so many L-d$,inc idiots for it.
This kid is a hypocrite.
Some choose sports knowing of Sunday competition but let it be known they won't play on that day. It is NOT common but it happens. See CHARIOTS OF FIRE, the movie about one such athlete. See the BYU Football player a decade ago who chose not to go to the NFL because of Sunday play - and see how many members even remember his name compared to Young or Merlin Olso. Olson would counsel L-d$,inc kids with football talent that a mission was a big mistake and would ruin their chances at a pro career.
It is 'follow the money' and the story changes depending on what L-d$,inc sees as the most lucrative at the time.
This kid is a hypocrite.
Some choose sports knowing of Sunday competition but let it be known they won't play on that day. It is NOT common but it happens. See CHARIOTS OF FIRE, the movie about one such athlete. See the BYU Football player a decade ago who chose not to go to the NFL because of Sunday play - and see how many members even remember his name compared to Young or Merlin Olso. Olson would counsel L-d$,inc kids with football talent that a mission was a big mistake and would ruin their chances at a pro career.
It is 'follow the money' and the story changes depending on what L-d$,inc sees as the most lucrative at the time.
When I was faced with a similar choice as a teenage son of a bishop for a non-championship baseball game, I chose to play. My parents gave me hell and didn't attend. I had a couple base hits on a pitcher that threw very hard to hit curveballs. I made the game winning play on the last out by throwing out a runner at home plate from deep centerfield. It was for certain my most memorable game as a kid, too bad my parents were at home where they should have been.