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Posted by: descartes1979 ( )
Date: January 29, 2011 11:51PM

So I have been studying the history of Mormonism off an on for the last 5 years (which is why I am no longer a Mormon by the way), and every couple of months I am stunned by something new that I have never heard of before in my life. I grew up in the church, serveda mission, married in the temple, gospel doctrine teacher - and there was a point in my TBM life that I seriously thought I knew everything there was to know . It just blows me away how much history is hidden from the members.

Case in point - I had never heard of the Aiken massacre or the Circleville massacre until yesterday while perusing this forum. Crazy shit.

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Posted by: WiserWomanNow ( )
Date: January 30, 2011 12:15AM

...and you will have many more occasions to exclaim, "Just when I think I have heard everything…”

There seems to be no end to the "aftershocks" of Mormonism!

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Posted by: D. Lamb ( )
Date: January 30, 2011 12:30AM

Along with these were the murders of some of the John Wesley Powell expedition (famous explorer of Grand Canyon) by the southern UT mormons. If I remember correctly, these men were lost and needing help. This took place in 1869.

The mormons took them to the ward chapel and killed them. They were thought to be spies just like the others who were killed.

Below is a link with more information about this incident.

http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/1869murderinamormonwardhouse.htm

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Posted by: descartes1979 ( )
Date: January 30, 2011 12:34AM

Ho. Ly. Shit.

Mind blown. I am literally raging right now.

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Posted by: SL Cabbie ( )
Date: January 30, 2011 06:36AM

From the church's own news station site...

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=493356

>Remains Linked to Massacre Found in Nephi

>What led to their deaths? There are two accounts.

>In one version, the Indians were killed in retaliation for the deaths of four men who were traveling to Salt Lake City from Manti with wheat, according to Springville historian D. Robert Carter.

>Another account suggests the Indians were summoned to town by military commander Maj. George W. Bradley and refused to drop their weapons. One settler was struck with an arrow, and the seven Indians were killed.

>The killings were part of the Walker War, a larger conflict between Mormon pioneers and Indians. A peace agreement was reached in May 1854.

Only seven victims, but then there was the Bear River Massacre conducted by the U.S. Army with Orrin Porter Rockwell and Lot Smith serving as guides for Col. Connor's men...

http://www.onlineutah.com/bearrivermassacre.shtml

>Although the Mormon settlers in Cache Valley expressed their gratitude for "the movement of Col. Connor as an intervention of the Almighty" in their behalf, the Bear River Massacre has been overlooked in the history of the American West chiefly because it occurred during the Civil War when a more important struggle was taking place in the East. Of the six major Indian massacres in the Far West, from Bear River in 1863 to Wounded Knee in 1890, the Bear River affair resulted in the most victims, an event which today deserves greater attention than the mere sign presently at the site.

Wiki isn't too bad on this one, but the evidence cited appears to have been cherry picked to emphasize the actions of the Indians that provoked the mass slaughter... And the figure of approximately 250 Indians killed that Brigham Madsen gave may have been low; note the 1911 claim of the Danish emigrant who claimed to have walked through the killing fields aferwards and counted nearly twice that many...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bear_River_Massacre

The selected editorial comment from the Deseret News is noteworthy...

"...with ordinary good luck, the volunteers will 'wipe them out.' We wish this community rid of all such parties, and if Col. Connor be successful in reaching that bastard class of humans who play with the lives of the peaceable and law abiding citizens in this way, we shall be pleased to acknowledge our obligations.

Feed them rather than fight them? Right... Well, unless on can get others to kill them for you...

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Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: January 30, 2011 04:47AM

I did not know anything of this either -- these people were/are Jim Jones type cult crazies...

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Posted by: Anonymous User ( )
Date: January 30, 2011 01:12AM

http://utah.ptfs.com/awweb/main.jsp?flag=browse&smd=1&awdid=3#
(page 64-86).

Occurring just 7 months before MMM, Briggy Young is clearly implicated.

"The Santa Clara ambush was not what Brigham Young intended, in that
it was not two backsliding felons who were attacked in the dark. But the
ambush was the result of events he set in motion. He directed subordinates
to take extra-legal action under specified conditions, knowing that innocents
might suffer with the guilty because no “tale bearers” were to be
spared. If he did not intend Dame and Haight to read his instructions as
they have been interpreted here, that reading is justified by the indirect phrasing of his letters.
If residents of southern Utah went beyond the mark
in implementing his instructions, no effective chastisement occurred. All of
the men to whom letters were sent retained their church, civil, and military
positions as though nothing untoward had happened."


"Following the same route five days later, the California-bound mail carried
letters from Brigham Young dated February 6, 1857, and addressed to
Lewis Brunson at Fillmore,William H. Dame at Parowan, and Isaac C.
Haight at Cedar City.These letters, the retained copy of which appears over
Brigham Young’s name, echoed the ominous language of the earlier
instructions:
Be on the look out now, & have a few trusty men ready in case of need to pursue,
retake & punish.We do not suppose there would be any prosecutions for false imprisonments,
or tale bearers for witnesses. ... Make no noise of this matter, & keep this letter
safe.We write for your eye alone,& to men that can be trusted.”23
While more explicit in one respect (“pursue, retake & punish”), these
letters were silent in another critical detail: Unlike the earlier letters, they
did not state that a penalty was to be imposed only after the theft of stock."

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Posted by: Jesus Smith ( )
Date: January 30, 2011 05:18AM

Descartes, glad to see you here. I believe these are your well written "readers comments" . Good job.

http://www2.insidenova.com/news/2011/jan/29/letter-learn-about-mormon-beliefs-ask-one-ar-808029/

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Posted by: Lucky ( )
Date: January 30, 2011 05:38AM

that all of Brigham Youngs victims cant do the same, because every where a person went in utah there would be the groanings from the earth of those who were MURDERED at Brigham's dictate, many for attempting to leave "THE" church & even more who were faithFOOL & true & ended up "USED UP"

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Posted by: Shiner Bock ( )
Date: January 30, 2011 10:18AM

Someone would bring up the Blood Atonement and I'd ask "yeah...but where are all the bodies?"

Now I know!

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Posted by: top cat ( )
Date: January 30, 2011 02:18PM


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Posted by: top dog ( )
Date: December 18, 2014 05:15AM


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