Why?!

When all you have to sell is a product built from lies, fraud, and dishonesty.....what else can you be?

THeir role models are ALL liars.

Lying for the Lord.

Mormonism itself is a lie.

is the same thing going on with the FLDS and bleeding the beast. They have The Truth. They are SPECIAL/BETTER making everyone else "less than".

Because it's there one accepted sin. They are told not to lie but it's impossible to keep up the necessary spirituality (or appearance of spirituality) without lying. It's too much to ask of a human. So appearances become more important than character and lies are necessary to keep up appearances. Also, they lie about others to shore up their shaky self-esteem. With some of them, they don't even realize they are lying after a while.

Honesty is to Mormonism as kryptonite is to Superman.

There are honest Mormons out there. It's just that they're called exmormons.

With males, I am sure it starts with interviews and being asked if they masturbate. They learn that lying (no consequences encountered when they do) is better than telling the truth.

It continues with the mission: "milk before meat", "lying for the Lord", and "answer the question they should have asked, not the one they asked".

Keeping their Temple Recommend is easier after they return if they lie. "Sure, I'm honest with my fellow men." 'Yes I paid a full tithe."

After years of practiced lying, they have no conscience, and lying is as normal to them as breathing.

scarecrowfromoz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> After years of practiced lying, they have no
> conscience, and lying is as normal to them as
> breathing.


Exactly.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2014 08:33PM by canadianfriend.

For example, the now-gone Unification cult ("Moonies") had an express policy they called "divine deceit." Since everybody "of the world" is also "of the Devil," then it was permissible to use the Devil's own tactics against him (them). It's also permitted by the Koran.

Theologically, the "milk before meat" is also a deceit. "We have teachings that would really spook you, so we don't you about them until you've swallowed enough bait and we feel the hook is set. Then we gotcha!" In that esotericism (secret teachings) is also common in the cults, the practice (unconsciously or expressly) shows up quite often with cults.

Where is divine deceit prescribed in the Koran? Are you sure it wasn't a fatwa?

Even though they are the majority in Utah, it feels like a victim thing. That they need to get what they want no matter how. Lying and deception in an easy way to manipulate to get tour way.

To be fair, SOME Mormons are dishonest. I've known many honest ones.

Stray Mutt,

In order for a Mormon to be honest, he or she would have to admit that the BoM is fiction, the BoA is not a translation, Smith told many versions of his first vision etc etc...

Good luck with that.

There's a difference between dishonesty and delusion. Or, as George Costanza told Jerry, "It's not a lie if you really believe it."

Or, to put it another way, are you dishonest when you believe a lie? Or just a sucker?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/31/2014 10:39AM by Stray Mutt.

No. "It's not a lie if you believe it" is the technicality that allows one to lie with a clear conscience. That's why the law makes fraud an objective, not subjective, standard. The standard isn't only whether the fraudster knew they were lying; it's whether the fraudster knew, or SHOULD HAVE KNOWN, they were lying. You don't get an exemption for willful ignorance when the consequences of willful ignorance run in your favor.

But not all ignorance -- in or out of Mormonism -- is willful. Believing erroneous things despite KNOWING better is rare. (TRULY believing despite TRULY knowing the truth is probably a form of mental illness.) It might be intellectually lazy for Mormons to not know the truth about their religion, they might run from hints of the truth because it scares them or threatens what they see as their happy lives, but it's not dishonesty. It's not fraudulent. The leaders are a different matter. That's fraud. But one is not a fraud if they are defrauded. They're victims.

Unintentionally repeating an untruth is not lying, it is perpetuation of false information.

Intentionally withholding information or disseminating false or incomplete information in order to influence an outcome is lying.

At the very same time that a mormon is taught to be honest, it is also taught that it *is* okay to tell the story (any story involving church or members) in a way that does not harm the church and displease the Lord.

Considering it was founded by a con-man, it's not surprising that there are dishonest Mormons.

Because you have to live in a bubble of lies to believe Mormonism. It's hard to be honest with other people when your belief system requires you to be dishonest with yourself.

Because you have to live in a bubble of fantasy to believe Mormonism. It's hard to be honest with other people when your belief system requires you to be dishonest with yourself.

When I did my investigation into the church that led to my "faith crisis" (more like implosion) I was embarrassed. The thought came to me that I could lie and keep adhering to a clearly made up dogma in order to save face to those I once proclaimed its truthfulness to.

It's like buying a $100,000.00 Mercedes that turns out to be a piece of shit. You can't admit to your friends it's a piece of shit, because they'd all laugh at you for buying a $100,000.00 piece of shit. So you lie and tell them it's the best car ever. It's sad really, but we humans do it all the time. Sorry for the language.

However, I do believe that facts don't mean anything to someone whose conviction is already set.

One of things that supports this illusion that Mormons have about their values is that the also believe that loud is right. They have to be dishonest because they know they are wrong!

In my experience, no group of people are dishonest as a whole. Some are, some are not. It's part of being human. Some humans are dishonest, some are not. Some lie, some do not. Some have great integrity and honor. Some do not.

In the LDS Church the Boy Scout Oath and Law are taught and prized as an ethical statement:

Scout Oath (or Promise)
On my honor I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country
and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong,
mentally awake, and morally straight.

Scout Law
A Scout is trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly,
courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty,
brave, clean, and reverent.

In my family, loyalty is seen practiced as well as honesty and integrity. It is inconceivable that my husband, for instance would be dishonest about anything. Those teachings were part of how my husband lived his life. He could repeat them up until his last part of his life when he was so ill.

On the other hand, there is an acceptable policy that there is a "higher law" and it's acceptable to lie, or betray people, or do anything that is illegal in support of that higher law usually called: "Lying for the Lord."
This is why, when faced with members who "lie for the Lord" it is presumed that all Mormons follow this policy.
But not everyone does follow it. Given permission to "lie for the Lord" is an easy out that shifts blame and responsibility.

I agree with Stray Mutt, there is a difference between dishonesty and delusion. I have had the misfortune of running into dishonest atheists, as well as dishonest, religious people of various religious ilks. I have found that most *true believing* Mormons are basically honest. On the other hand, the most dishonest people I have had the unfortunate association with, and have caused me the most damage, emotionally and financially, have been Ex-Mormons.

It is important to keep your senses and wits about you and not be too trusting of anyone (including family) in any given situation. When you are too trusting... that's when you are screwed.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2014 05:18PM by sassenach.

Every mormon I ever did business with was a liar and a thief. And I mean every single one of you brainwashed rejects. They would steal then lie, steal then lie over and over again. Good news is the word is spreading like wildfire among the nations rich elite. Pay attention over the coming years. You will find mormons not getting jobs or support from people and companies that are not affiliated with the cult. Nowdays when looking at an application, if the applicant is mormon or from utah person, their resume automaticaly goes into the trash. I will never deal with another mormon ever again, ever. Mormons have earned their horrible reputation.

If they are born and bred into a system of lies, manipulation, fear and especially the mental gymnastics it takes to think that's all great stuff.. it's got to do some damage.

Why are people dishonest? Depends on the person.
I have loved ones that I can count on (that were or are ldS) to be honest.
Again, generalizations are never valid or accurate.
I raised my children in the LDS Church to be honest, kind, trustworthy. Nothing in the religion allowed me to do otherwise.

It's the nature of the cult, going back to the person who founded it. If you've spent your whole life in that bubble, then you don't realize that you've been in Fantasyland the entire time.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/19/2016 05:10PM by adoylelb.

There is also the possibility that failing to "come out on top" might be taken as an indicator of that person's character, and we know that mormons are expected to triumph in their endeavors, so there is a built in motivation to lie, cheat and steal, if that will put you over the top.

And if that's the only way to appear successful, well, ghawd probably approves...it'll all be be worked out in the hereafter.

They are trained to lie about masturbation in interviews with the bishop. Missionaries are trained to lie about how many people they contacted in a week. They lie to get temple recommends for their wedding. They see the church lie to get visas for them on missions.

Mormonism is lies at all levels. They don't even blink.

When you are immersed in shit 24/7 you will end up talking shit too....