I have mentioned in other posts that my wife an I lost two babies in a 2 year span. The first was a full-term still born who died at 40 weeks. The second was a daughter who was born at 30 weeks with fetal hydrops.

When she was born the doctors said she probably wouldn't live long. I was still struggling with the death of our son a year earlier. As I said silent, pleading prayers asking the lord not to take another child the thought came into my head that I had the priesthood of God and that I could give her a blessing of healing. With all the faith I could muster and with full confidence in the lord I laid my hands on her head and gave her a blessing, demanding that she live and be made whole. I was "worthy" in every way. I was a full tithe payer, active, temple attending member.

3 hours later she was dead.

So much for the priesthood.

Aw, Gabriel, I'm so sorry. That's gotta be the worst experience ever. Wish I had somethin really good to say that would make ya feel better, but I sure don't.

I don't think anybody does...

No worries Stalker Dog! Not looking for sympathy. You think I would have questioned things then. Instead I blamed my self for not following protocol and having a 2nd priesthood holder assist. Yep, it was my fault my daughter died.

Couldn't be happier to be away from the bullshit mindfuck that the church does on you!

I am so sorry, the way the church takes over common sense and decency is horrifying, you were in no way responsible for your daughter's death. Condolences.

Truely I'm sorry for your loss.

Life is sometimes hard and yes, bad things happen to good people.

One of the biggest problems I have with God is this "Why is there evil in the world"

Why does god sit by and watch as truely terrible things happen....to innocents?

NoToJoe (unregistered) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Truely I'm sorry for your loss.
>
> Life is sometimes hard and yes, bad things happen
> to good people.
>
> One of the biggest problems I have with God is
> this "Why is there evil in the world"
>
> Why does god sit by and watch as truely terrible
> things happen....to innocents?

----

Long before I left the church I had a similar experience blessing my mother-in-law. She passed a day later and my wife blamed me for that during our entire marriage, and was possibly the root of our eventual divorce.

I had been an elders quorum president 3 times, a bishop, served in a stake presidency, was a stake mission president and member of the high council, and if finally struck me that all of our supposed machinations about blessings and expectations was based on the belief that it was up to us whether a person was healed or not.

After I left the church I maintained my sanity about the whole divine thing by asking myself two questions:

1. If god is god, is she/he able to prevent evil, death of innocents and protect the righteous, but not willing?

2. If god is god, is she/he willing to prevent evil, death of innocents, and protect the righteous, but not able?

If the answer is the former, she/he is malevolent or indifferent.

If the answer is the latter, she/he is not omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent.

If she/he is neither willing or able, then why do we call her/him god?

----

I know longer do.

Now I am reminded by Louis L'Amour that, "There will come a time when you believe everything is finished. That will be the beginning."

You have my sincere hope that your new beginning after the church brings you new insight and happiness.

because I'm not praying for one of my children who's having difficulties. Actually, I do, every so often, give a heartfelt prayer, but I don't really believe it, so then I blame myself again, realizing that God won't answer prayers without faith? Or will he/she? Then I slap myself, realizing I'm not sure there even is a god, so why am I playing all these mind games with myself.

It's because we are so worried about our children, and/or our problems, and we've been trained to "go to the Lord."

It's an act of desperation, usually performed when there is nothing else we can do.

Prayer IS an act of desperation, when you are out of other options. Then, if you are a believer, you can let yourself off the hook. THEN you will have tried every trick in the book. If it still doesn't work, maybe you can go a little easier in the guilt-tripping department.

No one should have to feel that way about themselves EVER. Thank you for sharing something so intimate with us.

Gee this is sad. I am so sorry.

No one really knows what burdens some people are forced to carry. My heart goes out to you at this


time. No one is immune to tragedy. Just as miracles often surprise us, tragedy stalks every one of us.

You did nothing wrong and everything right. Pat yourself on the back.

Your wife bore two children within 2 years. You stayed with her and gave support through out the

entire time. Many men, on hearing their wife or girlfriend is pregnant, take the low road, disappear

and leave her to take care of everything by herself.


You express love and longing for these sweet babies that you lost. Do you know how many men out there

are completely incapable of showing or expressing love in any form. You did the very best that you

could under the circumstances. They didn't die in vain. They both touched your heart in a way that

will leave you, forever, a better person. When you hear of someone who has experienced such a tragedy

and I promise, you will, You will possess a trait that is sadly lacking in the world today...it is

called empathy. It is not the same as sympathy.....it is the ability to actually put yourself in

another person's place and feel what they are feeling. God bless you Gabriel you have gone down

a very painful road and faced it with a maturity that escapes many individuals throughout their

entire lives.

Our child died in Utero. Because he died during birth, and never drew breath, we were not allowed to include him on our family tree.

I didn't leave THEN, but the first thing I did, when I DID leave, was to put his little leaf on the tree. He was my son, dammit, he deserves inclusion. All the priesthood blessings didn't save him. So I was told that "it was a test" for me. Guess I failed that test. Buh-Bye fake church!

Good for you AFT, for putting up that leaf!

AFT I don't understand their contradictory argument since they have always maintained that life begins at

conception. Isn't that what they say when they argue against abortion. "Not allowed"...............???? I

love doing family history for the sheer enjoyment of it and all pregnancies and births are part of what you

have become, together as a family. Give him a name and leaf. He is part of your history.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2014 10:47PM by mags.

We knew a very TBM couple several years ago who had a photo of their still born daughter on the living room wall. It was a lovely photo, done by a photographer who did a lot of these "memorial" photos.

The photo was kind of fuzzy around the edges, and maybe had a little artificial tinting on the baby's cheeks and lips, but she was wearing a pretty little pink dress, in a white wicker basket with a lovely knitted shawl lining it and hanging over the edges. She just looked like she was taking a nap.

When asked how many children they had, they would always include her in the count. The other kids referred to this little girl as their "baby sister."

My uncle was alive during the labor of my Grandmother, but the dithering doctors delayed too long and he was still born.
He was given a name by the family and laid to rest.

Years later, I as a super TBM, had him sealed to my grandparents and Mother,who had passed by then.

I guess the LDS censors didn't pick up that they weren't supposed to seal him to my Grandparents because he never drew a breath!

It's a fake doctrine.


If a child was coming into the family and died before they got here, it is your right to think of them and claim them. They were part of your life!

I'm so sorry to those of you who have lost children. I just can't imagine. I had no idea stillborn children aren't included in family history though. I'm just shocked and devastated for a family member whose baby was stillborn. That's just heartless.

We were told "quite clearly" that he wouldn't be numbered in the Church Membership, nor could we do Temple Work for him because, he "never drew breath." THAT'S the point that the baby draws in his soul and becomes a person.

As an aside, the official view on abortion is different than what I'm hearing here. Again, I was told "quite clearly" that abortion was NOT murder. (I had lost my virginity to a rape and aborted the resulting pregnancy. Felt guilty and talked to the Bishop and he consulted with the higher ups. I was told that no one was "murdered" as the baby had not taken breath. It was a sin, because it prevented our little pre-existent brothers and sisters from achieving Exaltation. So it was a grave sin, but NOT murder.) Catholics believe life starts at conception, Mormon's take a more Jewish view that it's once it takes breath.

Actually, the Jewish view is that if the baby's head is out of the Momma's hoo-hah, it is a human. If it is killed at ANY time prior to that, it is NOT murder. That is why, in the Torah, if a man attacks a pregnant woman and causes a miscarriage, he is expected to PAY the father of the child, not lose his own life. In the Talmud, during the first few weeks of pregnancy, there is only "fluid" not a fetus, not a life, not a baby. There is no question that, if the Mother's life is in danger, the baby will be sacrificed for the Mother, as the baby doesn't yet exist as a living human. Once the head is out, the Baby's life takes precedence.

Thank you for attending my presentation, donations are appreciated.LOL

Then the Mormons have changed. When I was a kid (a very long

time ago)LOL not so long ago, however, that I don't remember when

abortions were illegal and done on back streets by incompetent

individuals in unsanitary conditions and at that time the Mormons

were in unison with the Catholic Church on when life started.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2014 07:33AM by mags.

Making sense of their changing doctrine is like nailing jello to the Wall.

So sorry for your grievous loss of your two dear babies. Sorry that the stupid cult was not a comfort to you in your time of grief instead of the burden that they were. My mother's first child was still born and we always knew about her...her name, her beautiful red hair, her lovely face, her birthday...she lives on in all of her siblings and I carry her name as my middle name. Sending you peace and hugs......

Back in the '80s I attended a fireside where we were asked whether it was okay for a drug addicted mother who could not afford another child to have an abortion. I said it was okay and I had to be "corrected" (not that I ever changed my opinion). Maybe I should have left at that point, but I guess I saw it as a minor difference of opinion rather than a doctrinal disagreement.

I'm so sorry this has happened to your children. Sending love and best wishes to you and your wife. Thankyou for sharing your experience in order to help others.

Sometimes the sense of freedom comes over me like a flash of light--what if I could believe whatever I want! What if I could believe in what my heart tells me, what is right for me and my family! I'm sure you've had those moments of cult-free clarity, too.

You and your wife have a right to believe in anything that helps you!

I'm sorry that those tragedies happened to you. My grandmother, my mother, my daughter, and I have all had miscarriages, in the first trimester, and they were devastating--we definitely believe that babies exist as human beings while still being formed in the womb. We can't imagine how awful it would be to lose a child who is almost ready to be born.

There are sad things that are part of life, that we can't control. "It rains on the good and evil alike." No matter what we do or don't believe, I can promise you that you had nothing to do with your children's deaths! Neither did your wife. You know this, in your heart. Your ruminating about not having another priesthood holder with you--that's just the old superstition hanging on. You are de-programming from being brainwashed, and particularly in the rough times, you might regress a little bit, temporarily.

Honestly, I think this is abuse. In my tragic/happy life, no one could make a bad situation worse, like the Mormon cult could. For example, I, too, was raped when I was a virgin. I was told it was my fault! For years, I went over and over in my mind, what I could have done to save myself--but the truth was, he was a 230-pound football line-backer, and he had me pinned down so I couldn't move. I didn't see it coming, because I was getting my mail, and he came at me suddenly, before I knew he was there.

I had to have therapy to overcome this. You and your wife would benefit from therapy. It is not magic, and the pain will never go away, but therapy helps you get back on your feet much more quickly. With or without help, you will start feeling better about life.

If I had stayed in the cult, I never would have recovered from the bad things, such as suicides (are these loved ones really going to Hell?), miscarriages, crippling diseases (are we being punished?), car accidents, etc. The cult has reasons for all these tragedies, but their reason is usually that WE are not paying enough tithing, are not faithful enough. I'm so glad you are out!

Life will go on--the life that you choose to live. Bless you. (((hugs)))

I prayed and asked "God" for a sweet baby with an amazing man. I soon was pregnant. 11 weeks later I miscarried identical twins. That was one of my pennicale moments I thought, "If there IS a God, he's an asshole!" The clincher was when I was accused of a crime I didn't commit and my dad said something like, this is part of God's plan. I was like, I'm out!!!!

I've been pissed at God plenty of times. But I've come to realize that this whole thing is rigged. Everything that God does is perfect. It's perfect and it will blow your mind.

But don't leave TSCC because you're pissed at God or your ward. Leave because it's an unhealthy culture built on a foundation of fraud.

That was tough to read and had to be the worst of heartbreaks to get through.

And you are right--that would have been the moment to leave. Unfortunately with the special brand of Mormon brainwashing, many of us missed the tip off and let the Mormon church indoctrination join fish and house guests as the things that overstay their welcome.

Wow - that's so sad. And I think the futility of the Mormon priesthood is just like salt in wounds like this. You wonder about the whole foundation of your life because what you were taught let you down at the worst possible time. I know there are other people with similar stories of needing the blessings Mormonism swore would be there if we sacrificed everything to be worthy and then, at the moment your safety net is supposed to kick in, you instead land with an almighty thud. Sorry for everyone this happens to.

Good thoughts to you.

Mormonism seems to make bad situations even worse.

The church that claims to bring such joy and peace manages to stomp the feelings of believers and nonbelievers alike when it comes to life's most awful events. I allowed my TBM MIL to persue getting my daughter's temple work done shortly after she died by suicide. I didn't believe one spec of that b.s., but it meant a lot to my MIL. Seems that suicide victims and yes, I mean victims, are required to wait a year just like any other murderer. Really? God required my desperately ill child to wait a year? Why not 10? Why not 25 minutes? What's so magical about a year? I'm not mad at God. His utter failure to offer the tiniest bit of comfort sealed the atheism deal for me. I'm still mad at the a-hole Mormons that judged and continue to judge my daugther as a sinner. Fuck that sh!t.

Should be to origional thread.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2014 08:13PM by Dorothy.

To me the function of religion should be to offer (and teach) kindness, compassion, and support for all of life's hardships. A religion that can not manage to do that has failed.

I'm sorry that you lost your babies. My heart goes out to you.