I respect whatever people want to believe. I just do not understand the ongoing NOM mentality.

I read some of Delin's dribble. he is starting to sound like FARMS. But he is the Mental FARMS department.

I love that he and other NOM think that their faith is deeper because than know it's not true and still believe it.

That is not faith.

That is weakness of character.

They write these pseudo science pieces and criticize the church as if the church exists outside of total obedience. As if it was inspired when they want it to be and in need of correction when they see fit.

They go on about how if you squint hard enough, with their mormon-lite routine, everything will become clear, because you will see it all, Smith and the church for what it is and at the same time, magically, you will also accept the claims that were attached to those falsehoods.

Delin recently promoted, ironically, a critical piece of how we can manipulate evidence to buttress our point of view...

Again, that is not faith.

You can't have faith on something that is not true, and in turn make it "truish" because you believe it so much.

Of course there must be a middle ground after your are hit with the lies. I get cafeteria Mormonism.....for 2-6 weeks, after that you are beginning to re-write your mental gymnastics routine so you don't have to quit the team.

You want to take the good that the church gives but leave out the bad? Then take this: its either all true or its all a lie. No truer words were ever spoken by your prophet.

So, to Johnny and the hundreds of thousands that have become hair splitters, and bullshit strainers I say, you will be a better person outside.

You want to know how to help people in transition? how you can best help the church deal with the history? how you can assist those disenfranchised?

Grow a pair and leave already.



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2014 11:31AM by sb.

I have to admit I don't understand NOMs. When you know something is total bs, how can you stand to go to church for 3 hours and hear the same bs spouted again and again (same sh#t, different day haha). When we left the church, we told our teen kids if they wanted to go every now and then, we'd fully support them and make sure they got there. They'd been going to church their entire lives, had friends, and didn't know any different. We thought it might be helpful for them to ease out of it. It surprised us that the two oldest never asked to go back, ever. They were glad to be done with it. Why would they want to go back? Church is long and oh so boring. There are a hundred other better uses for your time.

So, I don't see how people that know better can stand to keep going back and listen to 3 hours of preaching of the same nonsense.

That said, I don't live in Utah where all the neighbors are mormon. It was hard enough to break free being way out here, but still, don't you reach a point where enough is enough and you just can't take it one more minute?

Amen. I look at it like a small toad. I swallowed it whole when I was too young to question and besides it was a baby toad. Now and again that toad would come up and bother me, but I'd manage to swallow it down again. About thirty it was sitting in the back of my mouth, bugging the hell out of me. I would distract myself during sacrament meeting so I couldn't' listen--too distressing. I made sure I was in nursery or primary so I didn't have to deal with that doctrine stuff. My friend decided I needed to get back to the temple so I cracked the Book of Mormon open for the first time in years. Finally, I spit that nasty toad out.

You can sugar coat it, ignore it, pretend it's a yummy treat--it's a toad. Spit it out.

Here's a Shakespeare quote that I think mirrors your toad analogy nicely: "...like the toad, ugly and venomous, wears yet a fabled jewel in his head."

TSCC is ugly and venomous, but TBM's look for the "fabled jewel."

I am sure there are people who enjoy what passes for comradery in the mormon church enough to want to keep engaging with it even when they know its truth claims are bullsh1t.

I do though wonder how many of these people like it for the opportunity it presents to control/take advantage of others.

Mormonsim to me is the "facebook" of religions. Its a great place to put on a show about how you live and manage to have hundreds of superficial "friendships" that are based on nothing more than that you see each other on a regular basis.

I hate facebook and wont engage with it because its all petty bullsh1t, I felt the same way about the social aspects of mormonsim when I was in it.

There seem to be two underlying concepts we miss a lot here.

Many NOMs have strong family ties that eclipse church issues. They know how to compromise.

The church just isn't as big a deal for them. They can take it or leave it. To many of us, it is a high priority to leave. They have a lot of other important priorities.

There are plenty of them here, but posts like this don't seem likely to open dialogue.

I had strong family ties- that does not make the church true.

If it's not big deal-why don't they leave if they know its a fraud.

Not speaking the truth makes them liars, living in a religion they know to be false makes them hypocrites, "dialoguing" their way into staying perpetuates the fraud and the abuse.

I am not interested in a dialogue with people who compromise their moral and ethical integrity.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2014 02:11PM by sb.

I don't think you are getting it. NOM is sometimes just a temporary place. Where you are figuring things out and on your way out. OR, its a place you have to be to maintain harmony with your spouse.

I just think its BS to try and paint them all with a broad brush stroke. I know people who know the church is false, they don't make any claims that it is, they don't serve in callings but they just attend semi-regularly to keep their spouse happy. You don't know them. Don't judge them.

It's fair to judge people who are writing these pieces about how everyone should see things as they see them, but realize this isn't all people who are "nom".

By the way. I know many here still attend. if you still attend YOU ARE NOM. I don't think you can really call yourself ex until you have actually resigned.

Mayne you did not read my post. I understand if it is a temporary stop.got it.

The problem have is setting up a house there an begin to create alternative doctrine to explain away the lies.

THIS has become an industry and its wrong. If you cant leave, whatever, but don't preach that you have some kind of authority for being apostate in order to easy the strangulation of self and the recruit people to defend that church and explain and apologize its issues away.

THAT is what is take issue with.

If you don't agree with me then don't.

BUT don't play the 3rd grade defense of "you don't really understand because if you did you'd agree with me"

sb Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I am not interested in a dialogue with people who
> compromise their moral ad ethical integrity.

I feel the same way. I've noticed over the years that there seems to be two different ways people ise language. One is to comminicate what you think with others,IOW sharing and revealing. The other is to manipulate others. Cultists use words as tools or puppet strings.

TO THE OP:

It's obvious you really know nothing about NOM's. You're "facts" don't even approach the realities of NOMhood.

Most NOM's would leave the Church in a heartbeat if it wouldn't destroy their marriages and their relationships with extended family. Most of them want their children out, but they've raised them in the indoctrination, and it's VERY hard to get them to see the truth about the Church now. Their kids often look at them like they are the shameful,"fallen apostate loser", and there is a lot of heartbreak in families when only one spouse will open their eyes.

You don't know NOMs. The statements you've made don't even relate to anything on their forum. It's obvious you haven't spent much time reading it.

It is clear that reading comprehension is not your forte and that as an active member, defaulting to the victim mode is on autopilot.

As I said: you can believe whatever you want. I lost a marriage and many other innumerable things when I left, HOWEVER YOU ARE MISSING THE POINT.

If you don't have the fortitude to leave and you attend to keep other's happy, knock yourself out. BUT. The mini industry on NOM doctrine that has popped up which aims at making exudes for the church is not ok, because it is as harmful as the church itself.

Again if you worship delin and you think that he will transform tscc in to a hipster coke drinker paradise, go for it, worship away. But don't come here with made up doctrine, because in that case the only leg you have to stand on is the church itself, which you are kicking.

I disagree about what you assert are the messages of Dehlin and NOMs. Dehlin supports doing whatever works for you, whether that be in LDS Inc or out. Sounds much more live and let live than what I hear from your message. But maybe I'm also one of those dimwits who lacks reading comprehension.

As for NOMs, you might have a change of perspective from reading some of the posts on the NOM forum. If being authentic and outspoken is important to you, than it's good that you do so. But if someone else values keeping his or her marriage in tact more, then working toward that end is good, especially if they find a way to make it work.

The essays seem NOM to me.
Are the SLC suits using the essays to divert questioning members into NOM's?
Will NOM's be the future for mormonism?

SB .... When did I say I was an active member? I resigned years ago. And when did I defend Dehlin? Not once.

It appears YOU are the one who lacks reading comprehension skills. You also seem unbalanced to me.

Mormon Daddy says temple up or get out.