In a just-closed thread, michaelm wrote:


"Today people like May and other diffusionists use outdated and discredited writings like Rendel's and present it as evidence. Gullible Mormons who want proof eat that kind of shit like candy."

Yeah, that reminds me of something in a 1970s era "Ensign." You remember how they used to publish info about archaelogical discoveries which supposedly supported the BOM? This one article showed a photo of an ancient iron axe which had been buried in a tree in Georgia. The caption read something like "Could this have been a Nephite weapon?" (You know how they always put these things in the form of a tantalizing question, rather than a positive declaration.)

I looked at the photo for a minute, and then some basic logic dawned on me: most hardy hardwood trees live 300-400 years. The axe appeared to be Spanish-style. Being from the south, I was very familiar with Hernan de Soto's 1520s expedition which traveled throughout the southeast, including Georgia. And other Spanish expeditions and settlements soon followed. So it only took a few seconds of tying those facts together to realize that the axe couldn't have been left in the tree earlier than 300-400 years ago, and therefore it was most likely a Spanish axe from colonial days.

If I, an uneducated layman, could deduce that in a few minutes, then whoever the "Ensign" editors were should have realized it also, and they should have rejected the find as having anything to do with the BOM. But they didn't, because the church's writers are disingenuous, and they know that most TBMs who saw that item are gullible and wouldn't question it.

"Also, when I first saw that youtube video I emailed the Tennessee Valley Authority and had a very informative and pleasant correspondence with them. They directed me to Webb's report in the Smithsonian Institution Bureau of American Ethnology, Bulletin 118."

You did the smart thing. I had a similar experience. When I was debating TBMs on ARM, one of them, Guy Briggs, constantly cited the Bat Creek Stone as "BOM evidence." I got tired of it, so I called Dr. Gerald Schroedel at the U. of Tennessee anthropology department and asked him about it. He told me that the stone was a 19th-century hoax. I didn't reveal that I was interested in it because of the Mormon angle, but he told me that some groups like the Mormons cited the Bat Creek Stone to support their beliefs. I thanked him for his time, and I researched the origins of the hoax, and posted it on ARM.

Another funny thing about these Mopologist claims is that they act like the "finds" are out in the middle of nowhere, and that they are little-known, mysterious discoveries----like they're some Indiana Jones-like find in a remote jungle or desert. But the fact is, Bat Creek is a stone's throw away from Fort Loudon, which was a British fort built on the Tellico River in the 1760s during the French and Indian War. The noted Cherokee linguist Sequoyah was born in the area. Supplies were brought from Charleston, and over the mountains into east Tennessee. Meaning, there was established British settlement and trade in the area way back then. Bat Creek is only about 15 miles south of the large city of Maryville. Meaning, the area isn't out in the mysterious wilds. A replica of the fort has been built, with a visitors' center, and they have reenactments etc. there. And the Sequoyah Museum is right down the road.

Same goes for Norris Dam. It's only a 10-minute drive east of I-75 near Clinton and Lake City TN. The world-famous Museum of Appalachia is just a few minutes away. You won't find nary a mention of any ancient Egyptian temple located in the area in that museum.

I remember those claims about ancient iron axes. Funny how they never told us that they were common European trade items, quantities transported even listed on ship records.

Have you seen this article? Its interesting because it discusses how trade iron got into regions before the explorers.
http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2012/07/09/how-did-spanish-axe-wind-toronto-100-years-europeans-122571

I can't discuss reality with some Mormons because in their minds truth is anti. Mostly I just keep my mouth shut with my own siblings.

Wayne May, Rod Meldrum, John L. Sorenson, etc. are doing far more harm than good with their promotion of nonsense. It doesn't take much effort to find the truth, that their claims are not supported with facts. It makes me think that the LDS church is desperate because it allows anything to be promoted as long as the tithing dollars keep flowing to Salt Lake.

...and saw this part:

"For me, sitting in my office in Toronto and digging a site just North of Toronto and finding a Basque artifact from 1500 or 1520 was absolutely mind blowing,” Williamson said."

Seeing as how Spanish expeditions (Coronado and de Soto) had begun penetrating the interior since the 1540s---and de Soto crossed the Mississippi near Memphis in 1542---it's not impossible that a Spanish iron tool could have made its way to the Toronto area at some point during that era.