There is a thread about is it possible to be addicted to porn and recover from the addiction.

I am the perfect example of a male being addicted to porn and being able to recover from it. When I was in my 20's the desire to see naked females was more than a simple addiction. It was my purpose for living. As an older male, I still suffer with the desire to see naked females engaging in sexual positions and otherwise. But I am no longer addicted to PORN. The reason why is simple, I am no longer a Mormon. Only Mormon males are addicted to porn. The rest of the world, men just like looking at the female body. Mormons use the word porn to rule over you.

So basically you're saying that because YOU don't have a porn or sex addiction, no one can?

And that all guys are straight and really into sex?

And no women could have porn addictions or enjoy porn?

And every person who's never been Mormon and doesn't know anything about Mormonism who has a story about the pain caused by lost jobs, money, relationships, time, self-esteem, and goals as a result of porn and/or sex addiction--they're all lying? At the therapists' offices and 12-step groups--all lying? The APA is lying, the DSM is lying? Or they're all Mormon?

K, just checking.

The only form of something isn't the Mormon kind. When Mormons talk about porn addiction, they mean 'looking at hot people.' Just because that's what THEY mean doesn't mean the thing itself doesn't exist.

I think you missed the point of what he was saying. He is talking about the mormon idea of porn addiction not being real. Certainly there is REAL addiction to porn (although addiction really isn't the best word to use since there isn't a true dependency that your body has to it), but he is trying to say that the mormon idea of porn addiction is so far removed from that that essentially every mormon is addicted to porn (because I think we can all agree that almost every mormon has seen porn once, and that is basically their classification of addiction to it), and that by simply leaving mormonism you are no longer classified as addicted.

The idea of his post is that when you leave mormonism you leave their skewed version of reality.

You seem to be really hung up on this subject...

Dependency simply means that the body--and the mind--experience actual physical and psychological withdrawal symptoms when "addictive agent" is removed.

Read this; this fellow is one of the seminal authors on the subject.

http://www.amazon.com/Out-Shadows-Understanding-Sexual-Addiction/dp/1568386214

Carnes: "Addictions are things we need to lie about."

More: "Addiction is a pathological relationship with a mind-altering/mood changing experience."

There's a strong shamed-based component to the behavior; do I need to discuss the shaming practices within the LDS Church?

'Nuff said; a huge element of addition is dichotomous (black-and-white tinking) which facilates denial. And I'm seeing a whole lot of both here.

Plus there's the "flip side" which is what we call "codependency." That amounts to the actual perceptual reality/belief that the problem does not exist.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/09/2015 02:39AM by SL Cabbie.

I guess I get the idea, to some degree. So basically, while mormon it would be a real addiction due to the shame and need to hide it, whereas once you leave mormonism it simply becomes a topic that you don't really bring up but also wouldn't deny if asked about it, so it is no longer an addiction by that standard (assuming moderate consumption).

I'm interested and expressing my opinion like everyone else on the board. :)

I think compulsion is a more accurate term than addiction in regards to porn.

Similar to the litmus test in the movie Half Baked, would you ever suck dick to get some porn?

I daresay not.

Unless you are a straight/bi female or bi/gay male and filming it yourself :)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/09/2015 02:51AM by bakagayjin.

because no one has been able to draw up what such an addiction looks like.

Whether it is the light reflecting off of a real person or light coming from a monitor, either way it is a sexual image coming do the brain through the eye –– the brain doesn't care.

How much masturbation is too much masturbation?

How many impulsive thoughts are too many impulsive thoughts?

How many beautiful women are too many women?

Whoever says you are allowed none of the above in any measure is a cultist.

So ultimately there is no agreeable criteria for what a sex addiction diagnosis should consist of.

Any one is free to think they have an addiction. Does it affect your ability to go to work? to focus? to maintain your relationships? Then it might be a problem, but porn is no different in this respect from gambling, overeating, bingeing on tv, internet addiction, or any of the many other addictions someone may pull out of their ass.

Men are wired to be the way they are. Neither the fear of God's wrath nor the taboo of "addict" is going to stop them from having a 'dirty' thought every day until the grave. However, most men control themselves just fine and save that kind of activity for an appropriate time and place.

It's appropriate for a couple to set boundaries and keep it from minors, but otherwise I don't think it's anyone's business to be commenting on it with harsh prejudice.

No one said it WAS different from gambling, internet addiction, etc. And "pulling out of your ass"? Gambling, in particular, is listed specifically as its own disorder in the DSM-V (since you mentioned that), as are other behavioral compulsions. It's not "pulled out of someone's ass." Hypersexuality is listed as an unspecified sexual disorder in the DSM, and as a symptom of many other disorders.

I don't think anyone commented on it with harsh prejudice. First of all, no one mentioned men vs. women except the people taking exception to the idea. Plenty of women have lots of sexual thoughts, look at men or other women all the time, and have sexual compulsions, addictions, or disorders. Plenty of men don't have high sex drives. Painting them with a broad brush is what stops people from getting help.

Also, you're assuming that it's only other people who want to stop the addiction, while actually plenty of people with addictions themselves go and get help on their own because it interferes with THEIR OWN life. No one is trying to control straight men's sexuality; that's your own hangup. The OP's question was about porn addiction in general, not the Mormon idea of porn addiction. Just like the Mormon idea of alcoholism is that someone has 3 drinks one night and gets a little tipsy.

Finally, porn is not the same as masturbating or sexual thoughts. Porn is a particular activity that involves an external source of sensory input. Thinking sexual thoughts is not the issue.

Porn addiction also includes using it to alter one's mood and being drawn in to where you feel detached from the normal feelings from a reciprocal relationship with a living, feeling person. A form of hypnosis and trance in a make-believe world of virtual sex.

Just because you decide not to call it an addiction because you're no longer ruled by Mormon concepts doesn't mean you can cancel out the damage of compulsively entering a make believe sexual world that alters your brain chemistry, your sexual response, your respect for women (or men) as whole people, your fantasy of being serviced by bodies without any feeling or tenderness, your competency in how to touch or arouse another person, exploits people who sell sex, and further alienates you from the reality of real reciprocal sexual intimacy. Good luck with that.

It does not alter your brain chemistry, because it's the same brain chemistry a man uses when he expresses his sexuality in any other number of ways.

It doesn't change the way men look at women. Men are attracted to women and fantasize about them with or without porn. I think men who swear eternal warfare on a part of their fundamental being change the way they look at women. They try not to look at women or think about women, and then when they do anyway, they blame the women. Porn is no indicator of child molesters or rapists or just simple, plain swine. Conservative rape culture objectifies women more than anything, I think, because it demonizes sexuality and separates it from the general paradigm of what wholesome humanity looks like.

The most damaging part of it all is the way our society of peers and superiors tells us there is something wrong with us because we looked at a pornographic picture and it was exciting. Shouldn't that be considered normal? People who get addicted to porn are people who have a deficiency in good feelings due to all the shame they are made to feel and the fear of rejection. It's the same reason anyone gets addicted to anything –– they feel like crap and they want to feel better –– oh, this happens to work, then it becomes a muscle memory. Your brain seems to know that whenever it feels like crap, there's an old standby that works at least short term. The problem doesn't go away unless you address the real problem –– the reason you feel like crap –– or you will, I will admit, compulsively gravitate towards it at seemingly higher rates than otherwise. But this still doesn't establish how much is too much or how different different has to be from the usual compulsivity of sexuality to be considered pathological.

The OP's point was that Mormon society, conservative societies and especially cultish societies create a problem by making people feel guilty for the human condition. That's when a porn habit goes off the charts. No one feels good about themselves in such a society. For example, Mormon culture made me feel like shit since I was 11 or 12, long before I had had any sexual experience that involved more than my hand and my imagination.

God dammit. Keep this bs off of RfM. Every man has looked at porn before and will again. Those who claim they don't still have plenty of fantasies, and I can't tell what the hell the difference is. I seemed to be able to masturbate as a 13 year old just fine and long before I had any idea what lady parts looked like with any accuracy. I pictured what I thought they looked like and it seemed to accomplish the same effect and triggered my Mormon programming to feel guilty just as bad either way.

Such are men. Stop trying to emasculate your men. Leave that to the cults. They're already doing such a good job and they don't need your help. Your man is attracted to women. He is with you because you are a woman. Does that mean he doesn't love you? Does that mean he doesn't see you as a human being, a person, besides being a woman? Some men are scum, but porn is no indicator of that. Case in point: the Mormon cult lines the walls of its ARP meetings with young men who were too naive and innocent to lie about their habits. Any young woman 18 to 24ish would be blessed without measure to have a single one of the guys from those ARP meetings to be their man. They are honest, they talk openly about their feelings, and they can admit their entire sexual history up front. My God! LDS women don't know what they divorcing in such droves, because they've had phobias and shame about sexuality conditioned in their heads too.

I don't like seeing that sexual shaming here on RfM too. That is all.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/09/2015 05:10PM by Cold-Dodger.

Sexual 'shaming?' No, you're the only one doing any shaming. Addiction is only shameful when it's not dealt with. I've known both men and women with sex addictions. Saying that alcoholism exists doesn't shame everyone who's had a drink, or have ever enjoyed binge drinking, or has ever gotten drunk. Saying that gambling addictions exist isn't the same as saying that everyone who has gone to a casino is a gambling addict. Saying that they're equivalent is black and white thinking. You're the one displaying it, not the people saying that such an addiction exists.

Porn addiction is painful for those who experience it. It's not all just other people pushing that label on them. Have you ever thought maybe they don't WANT that compulsion or lack of intimacy, and it's not all just a men's rights activist thing and evil women control heterosexual men's sexuality?

And to you I say, please keep this misogynistic, sexist, unsubstantiated gendered bullshit off of RfM. I'm a woman and I enjoy porn, both books and films. I've never been with a man who's had a higher sex drive than me. My current partner is a red-blooded heterosexual man and he wants sex with me all the time, and we have it all the time. But guess what? He fantasizes less and watches a lot less porn than I do. It's not because he's not a man, it's because PEOPLE have differing sex drives and desires. Stop making this a man vs. woman thing. YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE MAKING IT ABOUT THAT. I think on average women have much higher sex drives than men and want a lot more variety in their sex life. I've met far more kinky women than men, and every woman I know masturbates all the time and watches porn. Again, it is NOT ABOUT MEN VERSUS WOMEN. That is sexist, Mormon, black-and-white thinking that says that women have naturally, biologically lower sex drives than men, or don't fantasize, masturbate, or watch porn. That's in your head, buddy. It ain't science and it ain't the truth. It's LDS.

And also, I've been shamed and treated badly by many men, especially LDS ones, about my high sex drive because it made them feel inadequate. Shaming occurs in all forms among all people. I hate this sexist stereotyping.

Ever heard of Pavlov? Dogs normally salivate when they get food... Train them a bell means food (whether it does or not) n they salivate. Salivating is a "Normal" dog reaction.. Salivating at a bell not so much... Same for a porn addiction... Do too much of something and the brain can re-wire itself in a manner outside the norm... And sex and all the hormones that come along with it (pun intended) can rewrite the brain... Like rats preferring a cocaine high over food...

I think porn becomes a problem if it interferes in ones life... And I have seen first hand how that works...with a no-mo non religious person... It interfered with every single one of their relationships... Probably kept them from real intimacy which may have been the underlying problem... But it could be which came first the chicken or the egg question... Either way, porn addiction is real and does hurt relationships.

And for the record I think porn is ok... I don't give a flying f*ck as long as it doesn't interfere in our bedroom! And I'm a woman.

Cristina Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Porn addiction also includes using it to alter
> one's mood and being drawn in to where you feel
> detached from the normal feelings from a
> reciprocal relationship with a living, feeling
> person. A form of hypnosis and trance in a
> make-believe world of virtual sex.
>
> Just because you decide not to call it an
> addiction because you're no longer ruled by Mormon
> concepts doesn't mean you can cancel out the
> damage of compulsively entering a make believe
> sexual world that alters your brain chemistry,
> your sexual response, your respect for women (or
> men) as whole people, your fantasy of being
> serviced by bodies without any feeling or
> tenderness, your competency in how to touch or
> arouse another person, exploits people who sell
> sex, and further alienates you from the reality of
> real reciprocal sexual intimacy. Good luck with
> that.


Why would you say all that and then frankly admit you are no exception either? I don't mean to attack you on this point. I'm sorry if I drew you out into saying more than you were comfortable with saying.

I mean, especially if you have yet to meet many people who have a higher drive than you, doesn't that suggest that it's all subjective? You're saying a man is addicted because he believes he is, but you've got way more libido than him and you watch porn too — but you're not addicted — and you want us to perceive sex addiction as real as any other diagnosable condition that can be marked by changing brain chemistry?

Human beings can become addicted to literally anything that brings them pleasure of any kind. I haven't met a single person who wanted porn to be an end in itself. People crave real intimacy, and porn is simulated intimacy — yes, it isn't real. But there is nothing intrinsically wrong with it.

Every statistic I have seen suggests that it is pretty universal, maybe slightly higher in conservative regions. I propose that very few people who consume it actually get lost in a porn-induced neurosis. But speaking to those who just left a cult as though the cult was right on this point is an act of shaming.

You are clearly getting people confused. I am not Cristina.

Disentangle my confusion of persons and I still mean what I said.

Then it doesn't apply at all.

Porn usage and enjoyment is not an addiction. Doesn't mean those addictions aren't real and painful for the people who suffer from them. It's a clear point. Not shaming at all.

My issue was with the gendered aspect of it and the assumption that only men are sex or porn addicts. No one claimed that.

Saying that alcoholism exists doesn't say that alcohol is intrinsically bad. Saying that depression exists doesn't mean that grief or sadness is always excessive and indicates a mental disorder. I don't know what's unclear about this.

It sounds like we're more agreed than I was under the impression. The confusion comes from me mistaking you as the same poster I was commenting to.

Yes, any problem that is a problem should be recognized and dealt with. A lot of people, though, can't tell the difference between a real problem and a problem a cult has convinced them they have, hence so many self-diagnosed sex addicts in conservative regions.

Sex addiction, however, does not exist — not the in the way Cristina described, not in any way comparable to substance abuse or distinguishable from a host of other impulsive behaviors major and minor.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/09/2015 06:21PM by Cold-Dodger.

I would argue that sex addiction does exist, and that it can be serious. However, the problem comes more from 1) risky behaviors associated with the need for instantaneous sex, like going home with lots of strangers, having unsafe sex, or requiring more and more dangerous/extreme sex to feel satisfied, and 2) not being able to form intimacy (I know one guy who could only have one night stands; if he cared about the person at all, he couldn't get into it) than from the sex or porn itself.

I used to suffer from dermatillomania as an adolescent (obsessive skin-picking and hair-pulling, usually a result of anxiety). The word 'addiction' is not used for it technically but it was as harmful as an addiction. People told me I didn't really have it because that wasn't 'really' an addiction like to drugs or alcohol, but I felt as powerless over it as over any other addiction. It was more painful to be told it wasn't real than it would have been to be told I was an addict. So while I agree that the Mormon idea of 'sex addiction' is obviously not real, like most of their ideas, and that hypersexuality is not inherently bad, I don't want to contribute to people not getting help or the stigmatization of mental health issues which are so often swept under the rug because they are dismissed as 'not real' or 'normal teen/female/male/whatever' behavior. I think that porn addiction is one of these. If porn interferes with your life, job, relationships, self-esteem, and ability to love, then it is an addiction. That DOES happen. Just not as often as Mormons say it does.

My passion about it also comes from my general view of mental health issues. Being an addict or having a compulsion does not make you a bad, less worthy, or screwed-up person. It makes you a person who needs help and resources. If you think that addiction means you as a person are bad, then that is an issue with the societal view of mental health, not the view of the behavior itself. There is nothing wrong with being a compulsive gambler, alcoholic, person with BPD, or the like. There is only something wrong with the society that shames people for needing help.

And what? My boyfriend isn't a porn addict. I never said he was. I said that some men are porn addicts. Some women are, too. Some men don't like porn at all. Some women do on occasion. Some people are heavy drinkers, but not alcoholics. Saying people should try to curb their alcoholism isn't an act of shaming even though Mormonism doesn't allow it. You're getting posts and ideas mixed up all over the place.

I would say part of knowing whether it is an "addiction" is if and when the material has to become more "hardcore" to get an erection or feel sexual pleasure. Then, when porn no longer does the job, and something else has to be included like calls to women for phone sex etc. At some point, the man has to use porn or sex calls to get aroused at all. "Real life" women no longer do the job. At all. No sexual feelings. No erections. No Os, except to the porn. Dopamine responses in the brain? I'm not sure but someone I know experienced this with her DH. The "cure" was to stay away from porn and let brain reset itself. He was willing to do so cause he really wanted sex with his wife and hadn't realized what was going on. Things waxed and waned for 6 months or so. Slowly returned to normal after that. And we wonder why some women don't like porn? I'm sure the thought that u no longer can arouse your partner and he needs explicit porn to turn him on is not an easy thing to take. yourbrainonporn would say it alters your brain responses/chemistry. I have no clue whether it is true or not. The brain is an interesting thing.

That's not a very scientific statement that brain chemistry isn't changed cause its the same chemistry thats used for normal sexual fantasies. Brain chemistry and brain neuropathways when using porn are altered in the same way as cocaine changes the reward centers of the brain. People become wired to seek the reward in ways that alientate them from other fuller experiences, the reward becomes less powerful, they seek out more and more to get the same high, they need to cut out foreplay and get straight to the hardcore stuff, need to cut out tenderness and get to aggression, and their sexual response cycles change so significantly that there are a whole new group of young porn users seeking erectilce dysfunction treatment because regular sex doesn't arouse them anymore. They need the fast high intensity short clip that goes to orgasm in 60 seconds without all that annoying touching.

Really, learn something about how sexual response and our sexual competency in how to be a great lover to another person is damaged by porn addiction highjacking natural rhythms and natural responses to a living person.

There's a study underway of male sex offenders who violated prepubescent girls who have reported that they had never had sexual intentions for children until they watched porn for years becasue in today's porn people shave their pubic hair to look like children. After wathcing to much of that, hairless bodies became arousing so that children were then arousing. Porn can change what turns you on through neuroplasticity, we become what we are exposed to expecially if its arousing.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/26/brain-scans-porn-addicts-sexual-tastes