Been a lurker here for a little while - I am SO glad to find a group that I can relate these crazy experiences with!

So here's the short story:

I recently came out to my parents that I'm atheist. My wife is more agnostic than I am, although I tend to drift from atheist to agnostic depending on how many shots I've had. "Hopeful Athiest" is an apt term.

Just like many TBM parents out there, mine can't seem to have a relationship with me outside of the church. The recession of 07-09 really put a dent in my industry (finance) and now with a little girl, it's been tough to make ends meet. My wife and I both work. (I during the week, and she on the weekends.)

Knowing our financial hardship (cost of living is high in So Cal), my parents (wealthy) offered us an incentive: Get married in the temple and you can live in our condo for free. ("Free" means property taxes and HOA Fees, but no "rent") Needless to say, the drop in living costs is really attractive.

After about a year of deliberations, my wife and I decided to take the plunge. Our previous situation ($1500/month for a 550 square foot loft apartment with a 10-month old) was really uncomfortable! Now, we've got 1250 square feet, 4 bedrooms, and "rent" is basically $600/month.

Financially, the deal is a no brainer.

Morally, it totally sucks.

So I sold my integrity for +$700/month in free cash flow.

Luckily, my wife and I are on the same page, and we don't mind having to turn a few cartwheels to get ahead. It's not like we were sinking before, I'd just like to be in the positive: save for my child's college, build funds for a home, pay off my student debts, etc etc.

I honestly thought it would be a lot more difficult on me (mentally) than it had played out thus far. We've only been to church 8(?) times, and it's actually pretty entertaining to hear what goes on once you've been 'unplugged.' Old men love to have listeners!

What totally sucks is that I can either have a crappy relationship with my parents and high cost of living, or I can have a crappy relationship with them and a low cost of living.

The craziest part: I straight up told my father that I don't believe anything, and that I'm just going to lie my way through it. HE DIDNT EVEN SEEM TO CARE (he's in bishopric position). That blew my mind.

Moreover, he said he wouldn't rent to me at market price! The only way I could rent one of his properties (he has many) is to take the deal...

So yes, the plan is I am going to blatantly lie to get into the temple and fulfill my parent's dream for money.

P.S - I also negotiated tithing! I told my father that I didn't want to pay tithing, and that in order for this deal to work, he'd have to pay it. He agreed!

What say you all?

Am I wrong? What do you think will happen down the line? Am I risking too much? What challenges do you see that I may not?

As long as you're up front with your parents you're not stealing
their money. As long as the Church is NOT up front with you,
you have no obligation to be up front with them.

That's my analysis.

My guess is your parents are banking on the "as long as they
have the ordinances done then their being sealed to us will
allow us to bring them through on the other side."

They are paying you for that hope. Much like a lottery-ticket
buyer is purchasing hope. The only difference is that winning
the lottery, while unlikely, is a definite possibility.

> My guess is your parents are banking on the "as long as they
> have the ordinances done then their being sealed to us will
> allow us to bring them through on the other side."

That... or keeping up appearances. Socially there is a lot of pressure to have your family remain in the church. This may also explain why his father didn't seem to mind that he'd just lie his way through.

Well done! Holy shit, would your parents give us the same offer? (we'd prefer something in Redondo Beach, or Irvine, maybe La Jolla, or out on Point Loma. I'd hold a calling if he picked up the HOA fees and parking as well)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2014 04:57PM by rodolfo.

I would steer clear of a deal like this. How do you know that they won't keep raising the bar for your involvement in the church?

What if they want your kids to be baptized? What if they want your kids to go on missions?

If you were a teenager, I would probably advise you to play along while you were still living under your parents' roof. But come on, you are an adult now.

I thought you were totally crazy until you revealed you negotiated a way to not pay tithing.

I guess that is one of the tipping points for me.

Oh and the fact you don't really need to attend church... since your wife is on board, and you will have your kid's best interests at heart...

The only real suckers here are your parents.

Every one of my siblings who attends is paid to do so. Payment is in the form of subsidized housing, checks and the grudging respect of Daddy Warbucks.

Sounds good to me.The only thing is if it was me,to spare my parents,I would say that I'd reconsidered and would pay the tithing myself.

That would save them some money and not further line the Saints pockets if you know what Im saying?

My parents took me back after kicking me out as a teen on the condition that I go to church.

It was that or live on canned food in a one room (literally) apartment on minimum wage. I got tired of being broke and flirting with homelessness.

Ordanances only give the possibility of entering the Celestial kingdom. You still have to be a TBM through and through, not just going through the motions to get in. I understand your point of view, and if presented to me I would seriously consider it since the whole Mormon sham means nothing to me now. I just don't understand your parents point of view. Do they think they can pull one over on God? If God is this awesome being who knows everything about everyone then good luck.

I'm pretty sure I have a sibling that's working a similar deal. He's waiting for their funerals.

My incompetent siblings are waiting for Daddy to die. After his death, though, they will go through his money and be left with their own personal failings. They will be worse off, because he's providing housing for them now. Mormonism takes people and makes them worse. It makes liars of good people and slaves of losers.

Bingo!

You and I will be far far ahead in the game when that day comes. We may have gone through hell in the past, but I think we will fare better in the long run.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2014 10:08PM by madalice.

I pride myself on my integrity, but I would probably take the deal, like you did.

My husband and I are/were both BIC Mormons. We were not married in the temple, because I had already been married in the temple (and divorced the wife-beater.) When we became inactive and quit our callings, his parents, who were in the same ward as we were in, cut off our inheritance, and cut off our children's inheritance, and shunned us. It took a lot of explaining to our children, why their grandma and grandpa still showered gifts and attention onto their cousins and paid no attention to them.

Many TBM parents in our neighborhood have "dis-owned" (in their own words) their children, for petty reasons: one son did not go on a mission, two married someone of another race, one daughter was promiscuous, one son was gay (but the parents later quit the cult and they are a family again). This type of blackmailing, manipulative behavior is common in Mormon families. Don't think for a second that your father won't follow through with his threats!

There are two other points that you must negotiate with your father, down the road. Like Exrldsgirl said, your children's forced baptisms and missions might be a problem. My friend was in the same situation as you are, and he worked for his father, as well.

1. He negotiated to have his children decide for themselves, whether or not to be baptized. Eight-year-olds are not old enough to make lifetime decisions, so they agreed to wait until the kids were 18, before baptizing them, with their consent.

2. The kids had to finish 4 years of college, before going on a mission--and would not be forced to go against their will.

15 Apostles.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2014 10:23PM by builderbob.

Good guts, you hit the nail on the head! lol

They're lying to themselves and think you'll change your mind and turn into true believers.

Continue to be honest and start working on a plan to be independent of them is what I'd suggest. I don't think this situation will be viable for a lifetime, but might give your finances a boost until you can get out on your own.

I agree. Take the opportunity to invest in yourselves. Get ahead financially and be ready to move on out when the trade off becomes baptizing children or other things you won't sacrifice for cheap rent.
Figure out ahead of time where you draw the line. That way they have only as much hold over you as you will allow.

It's a pretty good deal as long as you keep your own integrity intact. Them wiley mormons though, they think they can just slowly keep nudging you on down the mormon path and at some point they won't take no for an answer, thinking they got their hooks set good and deep. So just be prepared for that day, and know the law about evictions. 10 to 90 days once notice to quit is given, I've heard, depending on where and what terms were drawn up.

Stumbling,hahahaa.

My parents wanted to do the same kind of deal with me only they were paying with love. I didn't take the deal and now they don't love me.

Money might have been nice.

You were up front with your dad, so I say no integrity problem there. You're basically helping him with his "career" (if that's the right word) in the Morg...good Temple married son that you are. A reasonable compromise. As for lying to the Morg, well, as I always say, fuck 'em and feed 'em hotdogs. I wouldn't loose a wink of sleep over that one. No-brainer...unless you are forced to spend three hours on Sunday in that douchey church.

My extended TBM family has a mission fund set up by our TBM Grandfather bribing everyone to go on missions. They get the mission paid for, and then college is paid for, but only if they go on a mission. The discrimination is blatant and not just against unbelieving family apostates. Even if you are unable to go on a mission for health reasons, you are on your own for college. Even the older female cousins who chose temple marriage over missions, when it was encourage to do so, were not allowed to use the fund for college.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2014 08:53PM by sassenach.

My rent for a 1250 square foot apartment is $1250 a month. And I think it's worth both the bad neighborhood (Long Beach) and my personal sanity. I already feel tied enough to all the Mormons in my life.

But the main thing is that I wouldn't want them holding it over my head. I'd rather live in a hovel (which I've done).

But hey, you gotta do what you gotta do.

Wow All. Really appreciate the replies.

This is definitely not a long term situation for us. We'd like to be out as soon as the debts are paid.

There are a few more twists to our scenario:

By his word, (i don't have in writing but I'm seriously considering it) dad said that once we are through the temple, then we can live in the property indefinitely at the same price, without having to remain active or attend the temple ever again. Do you think this is too good to be true?

Are they hoping for "the spirit" to change us? Are they really this 'faithful'?

What is the minimum attendance requirement to be considered "active?" The goal is to display the minimum level of activity, so as to secure a temple recommend interview, while not enough to be seen as viable for a calling of material responsibility.

Unless you get this in writing with an attorney involved, forget it. Mormon parents will turn on you like a rabid wolf.

My mother once told me that the worst people she knew took their children out of the will for not bending to the parents religious beliefs. She called me on my 50th birthday to tell me she was doing just that. Lucky me, I have more money than her. I don't give a flying monkey if she leaves me 5 cents.

I think you really have to examine what your parents are getting out of this. Is it a tax break for them? How much will the taxes increase over time as the value of the property appreciates? Are there upcoming HOA dues for repairs that they will expect you to pay? Yes, you should get the terms of your "lease" in writing.

Some parents just want to help their kids out, however, this not only seems odd, but also "too good to be true."



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2014 10:25PM by builderbob.

^^^^

There are always DUES to be paid later. Don't ever assume this is out of the kindness of their heart. Especially if you've seen their lack of heart in the past.

Save money for the day you'll be kicked to the curb.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2014 10:30PM by madalice.

He's done it to a couple of my siblings. They live in one of his second houses with a promise of owning it eventually. When the home value rises, he throws his offspring out and sells the place. It doesn't matter if they have no where to go, they're out. He even made me the offer once, but the deal was too thin as the house was in Utah. I dodged the bullet that my brother took.

As a short term solution, it sounds workable. Build up some funds so if things turn south, you can find a soft landing elsewhere.

Wow! Part of me is jealous! I echo those above - if you're being honest, more power to you. And the sooner you've cleared out all debt, the more options you'll have if you decide to do something else.

I hope your wife and daughter don't get sucked into the cult. Maybe your Dad thinks once you make temple covenants you'll be too afraid to leave the church.

wouldn't be surprised at your dad's reaction to you not believing. You are still making him look good so you have his approval, a least temporarily.

When I was attending the University of Utah, I met a wonderful young man, (now my husband of 46 years), a non-member of LDS, inc. that I was crazy about. My TBM parents offered to pay my full tuition if I would transfer to BYU! I had received no financial help for college from them thus far, and didn't expect it, since our family financial situation was quite modest.

Said no thanks. At age 18, I think I could see where it would lead.