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Posted by: NOVAanon ( )
Date: November 20, 2014 12:21PM

I received an email from my child's seminary teacher yesterday with suggestions of how to respond when teens have tough gospel questions. Mostly it was links to various recent conference talks, plus a reference to essays on lds.org.

Here is my response:


Thank you for bringing up this important and serious topic. I have been reading your emails about seminary with interest this year and ask you to please hear me out in return.

If we have children with tough questions about the gospel, the church or church history, it is likely they have already had access to information that does not come from one of the sources you have listed. Our kids are internet savvy and more information on church topics is readily available online than ever before. And it isn't just information, but other resources such as supportive online communities that seek to help those with doubts to transition out of Mormonism. These can feel like a godsend to someone struggling to reconcile different views of the church, but who is not getting straight answers from the church or its local leaders or even seminary teachers. (For example, why was the text of the D&C retrofitted to match later doctrinal changes, but my seminary teacher didn't tell me about that?)

Helping our children should start by understanding what they are going through and what they may go through as they navigate, define their faith and perhaps even leave Mormonism behind. They can easily find themselves in a gut-wrenching, confusing, emotionally isolated, betrayed position, conflicted between being true to themselves/acting with integrity and honoring their parents and faith community. It's brutal. I attended a professional leadership training recently where the instructor asked what is the most painful thing a human can experience, worse than torture. The answer was "disfellowshipment or excommunication from their tribe". We are social beings and our kids can end up in extreme pain by either finding themselves on the outside of the church or sensing the possibility of ending up on the outside.

First hand accounts, even from teens, are available from several sources such as the Mormon Stories podcast series for those seeking to understand the emotional side. It's worth your time to hear how people are experiencing this. I read this new, very well written blog today / that doesn't get into controversial issues, but is more a powerful expression of the emotions involved in questioning Mormonism. Here's a link with a brief post by a teen contemplating suicide and reaching out for help. http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1389328,1389856#msg-1389856
It might be instructive to read through the type of advice given on forums like exmormon.org to these teens in heartbreaking circumstances. What support will our children get from us in the middle of these difficulties? Can they trust us to hear and understand them, to not coerce them, to not shun or threaten them, to remain emotionally connected and supportive? If not, they will be compelled to turn elsewhere.

For those wondering what is out there, a few minutes with Google is all you need, but there are some specific resources your teens will easily find that compile most of the issues in very compelling and articulate ways (often with sources documented for those who fear rumors of the internet). Here is a list of some:

Church supportive:
www.fairmormon.org - FAIR is a group of LDS defenders of the faith, so to say, who write often with a scholarly tone.

www.mormonessays.com - links to the church's very own responses to some topics on lds.org, the essays can be difficult to find on lds.org, so this site was created to put links to all of the essays in one place.

Questioning Members
www.mormonthink.com - run by members, attempts to give LDS view and opposing view of several topics. Mostly sides with the opposing view.

www.feministmormonhousewives.org - the name sort of says it. Your teen may find the people here very sincere and may identify with the views, since those views come closer to the views of our children's social environment.

Critical, from former members
www.cesletter.com - questions originally written to a CES Director when a returned missionary was struggling with several issues.

Richard Packham's website. He is an exmormon atheist, very well informed, would be considered by most Mormons to be a classic anti-Mormon.

www.utlm.org - the infamous Tanner's website. Also would be considered by any active Member to be anti. But teens will notice some vindication going on as the Church admits that much of the information published by the Tanners over the years is in fact true. And that is difficult to make sense of, if our teens discover it.

Other Sources
youtube - lot's of different things from instructional, experiential to straight up mockery.

News outlets - many issues are actually hitting the headlines nowadays and teens may see these or be asked about them by friends.


As a person who has had his whole world turned upside down after concluding the church cannot be what it claims, I can relate and empathize with any questioning person. Feel free to contact me any time for any support you may need or to find out about support resources available here locally or online.

One last thought. The allegory about the seed of faith in Alma works just as well with doubts. Once doubts are planted, they can grow, especially if nourished by new information and supportive communities. As they grow and sprout, the fruits (such as intellectual honesty) can indeed be delicious. Your children may ultimately find it the preferred tree. Please love and support them anyway. Don't be condescending or patronizing. There is a dangerous potential to break apart families over these issues and that is a tragedy that may be avoided. I hope it will be.

All the best,



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/30/2014 06:00PM by Susan I/S.

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Posted by: Lethbridge Reprobate ( )
Date: November 20, 2014 12:25PM

I bet the instructor wasn't expecting a response like that! Keep us posted on what happens next.

Ron Burr

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Posted by: somnambulist ( )
Date: November 20, 2014 12:38PM

I hope that the mormon ambassador is not considered mockery.

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Posted by: madalice ( )
Date: November 20, 2014 01:15PM

speaking of mormon ambassador......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cOnyvPp6lI


That guy just cracks me up. Yes, he can be difficult to understand sometimes. I find I catch more of it if I listen twice.

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Posted by: Talon Avex ( )
Date: November 21, 2014 12:01AM

That just sent tea out my nose! Best. Laugh. All. Day!

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Posted by: Talon Avex ( )
Date: November 21, 2014 12:02AM

Excellent job on that message, NOVA! Please return and report if he answers back.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/21/2014 12:02AM by Talon Avex.

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Posted by: Dinah ( )
Date: November 20, 2014 12:52PM

I'm cheering for you here in my corner of the world! Way to go!

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Posted by: runtu ( )
Date: November 20, 2014 12:53PM

I am imagining the look on the seminary teacher's face. I'm in NOVA, as well, only my kids aren't interested in seminary, and I'm sure as hell not making them go.

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Posted by: AmIDarkNow? ( )
Date: November 20, 2014 12:59PM

Your last sentence is golden. I hope that sticks in their mind from this day forward.

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Posted by: madalice ( )
Date: November 20, 2014 01:02PM

Excellent letter.

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Posted by: gentlestrength ( )
Date: November 20, 2014 02:01PM

I would love to be able to tell my "teachers" how I feel about them, their half-truths, and their concern for me.

Do Mormon Seminary teachers have a sense of the disgust former Mormons have for them in the role they play in deceiving their students to meet the needs of their employer/leaders?

I have my doubts they are that self-aware, but if they are it must be awe inspiringly shameful to be an apologetic Mormon Seminary teacher.

What they do is immoral, regardless of their intentions and pretending to know things they believe that are proven false by facts they do or should know.

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Posted by: Void K. Packer ( )
Date: November 21, 2014 12:13AM

My seminary years were far away from Mordor, and the teachers were just member schmucks who got called to one of the suckiest jobs in the ward. They had no training. They received no compensation. The only one I remember lived 27 miles away (our ward boundary was like 30 x 50 miles) and we started at 6 am. What a fucking waste of all of our lives.

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Posted by: touchstone ( )
Date: November 20, 2014 02:10PM

Beautifully thought out. This letter may prove a resource to me when I chat with some missionaries in the near future. Thank you for your clarity and compassion.

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Posted by: twistedsister ( )
Date: November 20, 2014 02:30PM

Great letter. Please keep us updated as to how it's received.

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Posted by: DeAnn ( )
Date: November 20, 2014 04:24PM

I admire the quality of thought and presentation in this letter. I admire the time that went into the construction of this letter.

Every once in a while I try to say something with 1/100 of the power of this communication to TBM people I know.

It is such a waste of time. They are so certain and blockaded against anything that might be different from their set beliefs.

Again, I admire the integrity and tone of this letter. It is so NOT offensive.

I have had a wish for years and years: that I could actually de-convert someone.

Never going to happen.

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Posted by: msmom ( )
Date: November 20, 2014 04:29PM

Looking forward to hearing if there is a response.

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Posted by: Heretic 2 ( )
Date: November 20, 2014 06:16PM

Bravo! Great letter!

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Posted by: randyj ( )
Date: November 20, 2014 07:04PM


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Posted by: nonLDSinUtah ( )
Date: November 20, 2014 08:11PM

Wow. There's hope for me yet.

I'm a little perplexed though. A lot of this information has been out there for years, heck, it took me moments to stumble onto some of it via Google. And as far as the different States go, Utah is generally rated one of the most connected ones. So why the slow crawl to reality?

It's a little challenging being a non-LDS in Utah county, especially in the tech industry. Hopefully others will see the errors in their ways and be a little more accepting of others not like them.

Here's wishing you luck that your response rings some bells.

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Posted by: icedtea ( )
Date: November 20, 2014 08:39PM

That was a beautiful and well-written letter. I hope the seminary teacher and other local church leaders don't target your child for increased indoctrination and control because they now have it in writing from you that you know TSCC isn't true. There is also the possibility that the teacher or other leaders may try to have a private "chat" with your child about you. If you and your child discuss what's going on and how to handle such possible reactions, they won't be able to take you or your child by surprise.

Where I live, kids are actively shunned/shamed if they have inactive or ex-Mo parents, and local leaders do target them with love-bombing, doorstep invitations to activities ("Hey, come on over to the church with us! We're doing something really fun, right now!"), intrusive private chats that include nosy questions about the "wayward" parent, etc. Your child might no longer receive party invitations or may be snubbed by TBM friends. All of these things happened to my kids when word got out that I no longer attended or believed and -- gasp! -- drank coffee.

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Posted by: Reuben nli ( )
Date: November 20, 2014 09:58PM

I am in NOVA too. Fairfax county. Our kids start school at 0710. I can't imaging they have seminary here in the mornings. Do they?

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Posted by: twistedsister ( )
Date: November 20, 2014 10:14PM

I'm not far from you. Yes they do have seminary. My kids high school starts at 7:15. Seminary is 5:30-6:20ish. Just enough time to end and for those in the other school district to rush home (15-20 min drive) to catch the bus (7:45 for us). There are two high schools in our ward.

Thank goodness that nonsense is over.

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Posted by: upsidedown ( )
Date: November 20, 2014 10:13PM

Very well done. Polite and written with the intent of coming together rather than a reactionary approach that could make walls.

It allows the reader to think about the choices that they can make to re-prioritize and make FAMILY FIRST instead of the church.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/20/2014 10:15PM by upsidedown.

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Posted by: mothermayeye ( )
Date: November 21, 2014 12:30AM

VERY well written!:-)

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