I’ve been out of the church for about 15 years now and had my name removed only about 6 years ago. I did not do it sooner because my father was ill and near the end and I didn’t want to add to his suffering. He believed in the church until the end and my mother who lives with me now still does. When my mom first moved in with me after my dad passed and I told her I had removed my name from the church we had a little battle but once she accepted that I had not changed and in fact I am happier now than I have ever been she relaxed and we get along great now.
So with that preamble I will get to the reason for my post. I live in the heart of Happy Valley so I am surrounded by Mormons. With my mom living with me she has HT’s and VT’s coming around all the time so it is obvious that I will have to interact with Mormons constantly. I have come to some conclusions that I wanted to share.
Last night her home teacher came by alone because his companion is on vacation. He is a very nice man and I actually like him as a person so I have no problem that he came alone or that he comes over whenever he wants. As we sat there talking I looked at this man who is a successful businessman and no doubt that he is intelligent I wondered how someone like him could be deceived by the morg for over 70 years. I sat there listening to him tell his stories about his youth and his memories from childhood I contemplated this question and I came to the conclusion that he may actually know the truth about the church but that he chooses to continue to believe because he gets something from the church he can’t get anywhere else.
I realized that life is uncertain. Everyone knows that someday they will die but nobody really knows what happens when we die. That is the big question that has plagued humankind since humankind has had the ability to think and reason. I came to understand in that moment that with that uncertainty of what happens when we die most people simply can’t live with that uncertainty. It takes a special type of person, like our beloved Steve Benson, who has completely accepted that there is nothing beyond this life and he is just fine with that. I am making a blanket statement here which I don’t like to do, most people simply need religion because it tells them what happens when we die and even though it is just the opinion of whoever created the religion that they choose to believe in, it still gives them comfort in at least believing that they know what will happen. The manipulation and coercion that goes along with the particular religion they choose to believe in is blocked out of their mind with cog dis and they just accept it for what it is because it answers that one big question and that gives them comfort.
I have not arrived at the point that Steve is at yet and I still need to believe that somehow, not related to religion in anyway, we do continue and although I have absolutely no clue what will “actually” happen I want to believe that I will be with my sweetheart and kids after this life closes for me.
What this has done for me is to help me not look at people who devote their lives to religion with derision even though it may be blatantly obvious that the religion they have attached their wagon to may be lying through their teeth, such as the morg. It has allowed me to accept people for who they are and look past the religion they have chosen to follow. It actually feels good because I struggled with this ever since I decided that all religions are simply the inventions of man and that if there is a god that god has nothing to do with any religion. I kept looking at people like this man who came to our home last night with such derision and contempt. It was worse when I liked the person because I wanted to like them but my feelings about their choice to follow a religion was a road block to me accepting them as a genuine person. I thought I would share because it feels pretty good to have come to this conclusion and it will allow me to accept people more openly for who they are as a person even if they are fanatical about their chosen religion.

I understand your point.
However, I think you're confusing "need" with "want."
They're not the same.

As far as "accepting," I "accept" anyone who doesn't force their religious beliefs on others, who treats people honestly, kindly, and fairly. Some mormons are that way, some aren't. Same for those of other religions. Most people who are "fanatical" about their religion aren't that way.

Finally, we do indeed know what happens when we die -- we die. We cease to exist. That's what we know, and there's plenty of evidence showing that's the case. Hoping or imagining that ISN'T the case is what people make up, and it isn't knowledge.

It's nice when the sort of acceptance that you talk about is returned as well. How well do the Mormons in your life accept your own choices?

The acceptance from the mormon point of view is actually tolerance for making less-than and or poor choices due to not being a Mormon yet, having partial truths as a non-Mormon, influenced by Satan because you are weak and being less special.

This was evidenced by that feeling I used to get as I walked out of the Temple justifying to myself that I had checked the box on my way to the celestial kingdom and had special knowledge that others around me in the non-Mormon homes around that same Temple did not have.

Special handshakes, groinshades, strength in the loins, power in my posterity and a wink wink at the pearly Gate and I was in!

The mormons that come around have respected my choice fairly well. I have not had one person come try to get me to go to church or "bring me back" in any way. I have set some pretty firm boundaries and so far they have respected those boundaries. If one decides to step over those boundaries I will immediately set them straight and if they continue to overstep them I will notify them they are no longer welcome in my home. I did it one time when we first moved into the house with my mom and that person has not returned ever.

Mormonism taught me just the opposite: not to.

Then, leaving the church and going towards the light, subconsciously, I chose to view all people as having possibility.

An open mind - and heart - is a terrible thing to waste, or close.

I find it difficult to accept people regardless of their religious beliefs when members adopt disparaging views of others because they were pushed by their leaders. I heard time and time again in my youth very bigoted remarks regarding minorities and their "curse of Cain" - some from the leaders including Joseph Fielding Smith. Now that TSCC has changed their "policy" against Blacks, their latest "hate group" is LGBTs. Mormons were actively encouraged (and in many cases pressured) to oppose same sex marriage here in California (Prop 8).

When a large group of people assume a very discriminatory position aimed at taking away the equal rights of a sizable number of our fellow citizens simply because they were told to do it by some misguided very old men, I lose respect and patience. Sorry, but frankly, I hate the bastards and see no reason to "make good".

Have any of you heard this prayer?

"God bless the bad people so they will be good. And, bless the good people so they will be nice."

While not being Good or Nice, I honestly have lost patience with others' religious beliefs. Mormon friends have un-friended me after 30 (40) years, or call when their TBM other isn't looking.

JW's think my soul is up for grabs, but they are so smarmy and unctuous that they make me truly sick.

Saving my soul is now a "project" for a number of people.

We went to a Christian church by invitation of some friends who attend the "Shame-and-Grace Class." They determined that they must come clean with all their extramarital affairs, and needed a witness. So they chose us. I told my husband, "Hell NO!!!" We haven't been back.

So, my answer to accepting people regardless of their religious beliefs is:

"No, not anymore."

"I have not arrived at the point that Steve is at yet and I still need to believe that somehow, not related to religion in anyway, we do continue and although I have absolutely no clue what will “actually” happen I want to believe that I will be with my sweetheart and kids after this life closes for me."
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You don't have to be in a religion to believe in an after life, God, etc. You can study near death experiences, past life regression books, mediumship, etc.

You are right that religion is man made but there is an after life and actually multiple lives.

Been there done that ----- through experiences.

Good luck on your journey!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/2015 03:08PM by spiritist.

spiritist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You are right that religion is man made but there
> is an after life and actually multiple lives.

You know, spiritist, you'd get a lot less grief if you'd write, "I believe there is an after life" instead of "there is."
Since you have no evidence there is.
Just sayin'.

I appreciate your concern and point of view you are obviously very knowledgeable about many topics and obviously have a lot of friends/fans on this board.

I think I can understand why you have to critique anyone with a bold belief different from yours that you know can't be readily proven ----- a very overbearing parent when you were young, with rigid rules about church or something else is usually the cause.

Even if you rebelled against your overbearing parent's 'rigid/crazy rules' eventually you still react the same way they reacted, to someone with a belief different from yours, because that was how you were raised. You are attempting in your own way to make 'rules for any believer'.

Unfortunately, I am one that sees those type of rules and cannot go along with them because they are crazy on a board like this.

My bold beliefs are 'beliefs' but based on numerous experiences so that is where I am coming from ----- whether it offends anyone or causes me grief on this board or not.

so your rejection of mormonism causes people to suffer ?

So false comfort is still comfort? Probably the reason I leave my elderly mother alone with her beliefs as well--even when they impact me or hurt.

But . . .everybody else? No.

Even if you are a nice person,as those in my family are. Even if you are somewhat tolerant of others, as my family is. There is still an underlying problem.

They still belong to an organization that splits families, discriminates, yea, even advocates bigotry, and treats women as less than--even if these nicer Mormons are not doing it personally.

For this reason I don't accept them. I will be polite. I will interact in a civilized manner. I will offer no unprovoked attack. I will probably actually really like some of them and even want to spend some time with some. But on a certain level, I will keep them at arms length because even my lovely family stands and raises their arm to the square in support of a prophet and apostles who clearly are deeply hurting many people and are the cause of unfathomable heartbreak with their arrogant intolerance and bigotry.

Even Roy got mauled by his favorite Tiger in the end. The Tiger didn't really mean it, but the damage was done.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/2015 03:32PM by blueorchid.

I'm an atheist too. I believe that when the mind dies, our "being" ceases to exist. And the disappointing thing about this universe is that all those religious people will never realize how wrong they were. If they believe until their deathbeds, they'll face oblivion and never get the chance understand that their religion was deceitful and wrong. That just seems unfortunate to me; like you might as well believe because you'll never actually be proven wrong.

I don't have anything against religion itself. Most people need to believe and that's fine with me as long as they're not shoving their beliefs down other peoples' throats. It's what their religions do to those people that I take offense with; how Mormonism seems to make the vast majority of Mormons so arrogant and holier-than-thou. How religious leaders lie through their teeth and become hypocrites. How religions push trust in god and discourage free and critical thinking. How peoples' religion "justifies" bigotry and covers up abuse.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/2015 03:45PM by oneinbillions.

It's great to get to the point where you can just like people for who they are and not base your opinion of them on their religion. I'm not quite there yet but I hope I eventually will.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/2015 09:01PM by brandywine.

One of my favorite motto's is: Every kindness counts. It is a part of Do unto others even if they cannot do unto you, because in the final analysis, we are free to choose to send positive energy into the world even if people are not yet ready to receive it.

Thanks for sharing it's a great quote.

This is a lovely thought and way to live.

I'm planning on retiring to Utah. To be near where my Mormon pioneer ancestors lived, died and are buried. And my mother, and Jewish grandmothers.

I need to keep an open mind and be accepting like the OP because I anticipate the Mormons and jack Mormons and ex-Mos like me, and others from many walks of life with beliefs that in the bottom analysis we may find we're really not that different at all.

Oh I plan to keep my boundaries high. I won't have a mom or dad to need to entertain the VT and HT. For them there will be a "No Soliciting, and No Proselytizing" sign on my door if needed. I honestly didn't see a single missionary the entire week I spent in southern Utah, except my 61 year old cousin who I met for the first time who's a RM and licensed broker/realtor. He wasn't gabby at all about Mormonism. We just share common ancestry, which is awesome. The Mormons I did meet were very welcoming and not preachy. They weren't really different from my Eastern neighbors. I live next door to Catholics. They pray for me, and I them. We appreciate each other.

People are the same wherever we go. There's good, bad, and indifferent. I won't be trying to convert anyone to my religion. And they'd best not try to convert me, or there'll be hell to pay. :D

My Jewish side will get em!

My dad used to say before he passed on that there are parts of Mormonism he believes, and parts he doesn't. He could accept what he liked, and discarded the rest. What a mensch! Too bad I couldn't be more like that. I just couldn't find much of any of it I believed after I learned so much was lies. What's left is moot.

Respect is a two way street. And fences make good neighbors. :)

I generally accept people until they become an annoyance. So I can accept religious people unless they make their religiosity a point of annoyance.