Basically TSCC is saying it's the responsibility of the members to know the doctrines and history of the church. Shame on you saints for not knowing.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/benjamin-knoll/many-mormons-are-unaware-_b_6195784.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592

So, members are not to read anything but approved sources, but they are supposed to know what non-approved sources say in case the church decides to change its story.

No wonder TBMs are on Prosaic. They are in a relationship with a bipolar church.

That's how abusers work.

And multi-level marketing companies, such as NuSkin, Amway, Herbalife, etc. The culture of deception is created at the top, but when any trouble arises, they claim that they have no control over their "independent business owners" and use plausible deniability to quarantine themselves from any liability.

They brought up some subjects and views that I didn't think about. Like, we know B.Y. had sex and produced children with his multiple wives, so why are there so many TBMs that claim J.S. didn't have sexual relations with his plural wives?

http://mormonexpositor.com/84-do-members-really-know-about-joseph-smiths-polygamy/

1. The truth is out there so you should know it.

2. If you don't know it, you are to blame.

3. If you find out the truth and tell anyone, you are to blame and should be excommunicated.

If you find out about the different "first" vision versions or about the peep stones; you can't share the information or else you'll face possible excommunication.

If you tell of the Book of Breathings spell papyrus that J.S. deciphered as the Book of Abraham, you could be excommunicated.

If you tell of polyandry or that Joseph Smith was armed with a gun at Carthage jail, you might face a church court.

If you tell the true history of Two black men in the LDS church Elijah Abel and Green Flake; how one was ordained an elder and received his endowments, while the other was given to TSCC as tithing payment and held as property. You could face excommunication.

If all the information contained in the church's essays was common knowledge to most Mormons and readily available in church sources, as the church and many members are now claiming, what was the point of releasing the essays in the first place?

Seriously--

If we were to use ONLY the approved lesson manuals that we would encounter in church, etc. (NOT those designed for Institute, since not all members would have access), then one could almost definitively state that there has been no mention made or discussion had about the polygamy of JS.

I am saying this without having done the requisite research, but in my 40-something years in the church, it has not been the subject of class discussion, and most definitely not the subject of lesson manuals, Ensign articles, etc.

Also, I love the circular logic you all are presenting--damned if you do do more research, damned if you don't.

The current Church President manual series either mentions no wives, or mentions only wife #1 (e.g. Emma Smith) until after Heber Grant, who was the last polygamist president (died 1945). I have seen on lds.org a family reunion photo of Grant with his #3 wife surrounded by grandchildren or great-grandchildren, with no mention made that the descendants picture are all from wives #1 and #2, and that he had no children with wife #3. By the time Grant became president, wife #3 was the only survivor, so he appeared to be monogamous, but in reality he'd had three at once, for years beyond 1890. The photo seems to be given the impression that he was a widower who remarried in middle age without fathering further children, when in reality what you're looking at is the last surviving wife out of three (and the only one who didn't produce him any children).

For presidents after Grant, the manuals suddenly include paragraphs of material about the monogamous wife. It almost appears as if some of the pre-George Albert Smith presidents were bachelors, if you only read the manual.

Image link: https://www.lds.org/churchhistory/presidents/images/presidents/HJG_mm1_st.jpg

Official LDS history webpage: https://www.lds.org/churchhistory/presidents/controllers/potcController.jsp?leader=7&topic=multimedia#

Timeline of life events (no wives mentioned): https://www.lds.org/churchhistory/presidents/controllers/potcController.jsp?leader=7&topic=events

Successor's (GAS) timeline shows marriage (first monogamous president): https://www.lds.org/churchhistory/presidents/controllers/potcController.jsp?leader=8&topic=events

It was incumbent upon them to research...

To become a citizen of the U.S. you have to know it's history and it's form of govt. If you wanted to join a fraternal organization you would want to know their history and purpose i.e. Masons or Odd Fellows. or taken to the extreme the KKK or Nazi party you would want to know their history, doctrines and purpose.

The problem is that you're not given the choice or chance because you're either BIC or given Milk before Meat or flat out denied access to the truth.

This thread discusses an aspect of this....

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1435429,1435429#msg-1435429

Fuck Tommy Monson and TSCC fuck!!!!!

"I'm sorry you feel that way."

"If you had paid attention, you'd know."

"Why can't you just let it go?"

"Mistakes were made. No use pointing fingers now."

"Were you offended?"

"You'll get nothing and like it."

"Don't listen to what I told you; listen to what I'm telling you now."

When someone says these things to you, they'd just as well jam a yellow Ticonderoga #2 into your ear canal. And not eraser end first.

As a convert before the internet, I did not know about the temple ceremonies, and what little I did find out in one temple prep class, sent me running for the exits. I thought the whole magic underwear thing was a joke. Will church members now openly talk about the temple ceremonies so they can claim the church has no secrets? When can we expect I church essay on this topic?

"the responsibility of the members to know the doctrines and history of the church" - THIS IS COMICAL....IF IS WAS NOT SO SAD!!

people hire tax accountants because the tax laws change continually. But even they don't change as often as does CULT doctrine. If the average human being can't keep track of the changing tax laws and hence hire accountants to do their taxes, why would TBMs know the changing CULT doctrine? It changes more often than the TBMs change their garmies.

dk - the tempe ceremonies are not secret they are sacred. And if you believe that, I have some swamp property for sale.....

notice how close the words scared and sacred are to one another? A little typo and BAM!!



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/24/2014 08:28PM by verilyverily.

Scared or secret, the information is hidden from members. If members want to pretend the church has nothing to hide, then let's start with its financial information.

I love it when members respond with the "Nothing was hidden", "You should have known", "You didn't study/research" excuses. I usually give them a good dose of Loud Laughter right in their face.

Growing up in the church I was taught NOT to explore info outside of church approved manuals and publications. To do so would be to invite the evil spirit of anti-Mormon lies into my life and force the "spirit" to depart from me.

Do you want to hear crickets chirping when confronted with the "Nothing was hidden" excuse from a TBM?? Ask them to point out which Gospel Doctrine, Relief Society, Priesthood, Seminary/Institute manual discusses Joseph Smith sending men on missions and then marrying their wives, teenage brides, head in the hat, etc. The silence will be deafening.

I recently asked a TBM where I could find the information about Joseph Smith's polygamy in a church manual. They pointed me to a church Institute manual. There is one lesson that briefly states that J.S practiced plural marriage. Funny how the one lesson that mentions J.S. and polygamy wouldn't even be seen by most Mormons because the vast majority aren't enrolled in Institute.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/24/2014 08:45PM by want2bx.

That was an update made within the last year. Before that, for 100 years there was only silence. The recent priesthood manual on JS did not even mention it.

That's good to know. I suspected that the information was most likely added recently.

Oh sure, the "You should have known this all along" thing is a convenient explanation for TBMs now - but it will bite them in the ass.

It basically gives the formerly ignorant TBMs permission to look into the ugly history.

I mean, how many people today are thinking, "apparently I was supposed to know all about this Joseph Smith polygamy thing..."

The "You should have known" excuse is a horrible long term stategy for TSCC...

This blame game has been part of it all along. Whenever things went sour for any of Joe Smith's schemes, it was blamed on the members for not working hard enough, praying hard enough, or obeying enough. Remember, the church is perfect.

"It's your fault for not seeking out the truth, it was there all along, it is not the churches fault"

Didn't the instructor's manuals tell the teachers to encourage the class members to NOT go researching outside of the current manual?

Integrity is something the church doesn't seem to have much of.