I'm sure this has been hashed and rehashed before, but I don't see anything but sexism as the reason for the ex'ing of Kate while letting John go along and do his thing without any church discipline. John has influenced WAY more people away from the church than Kate ever did.

I think because Kate *is* a heretic and Dehlin just gives heretics a forum for talking. I agree that he is more influential, but his "crime" is less easily defined.

Kate has balls, Dehlin....clearly not.

I respectfully disagree. I have listened to literally hundreds of hours of Dehlin. He goes way out on a limb. He has cajones galore. I can't believe he hasn't been ex'd along with Kate.

I agree. It's not John's fault that they haven't ex'd him. He just does his thing, and does it well. What TSCC does is up to them.

John has done everything he can to get kicked out. Maybe posting his interview with anointed one or getting Benson on would do the trick.

When requested to cease and desist by her SP, Kelly stuck to her principles. Dehlin has capitulated since the SP told him to back off. He has backed off.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/27/2014 07:44AM by Stumbling.

Might have had something to do with Kate getting all up in their face, and Dehlin just doing what he does quietly. She was there to make a point and make changes, he's there to talk about things with people.

Exactly what I was going to say. She was in your face about it,organizing women to ask for admittance to the priesthood session, petitioning for women to be ordained and such.

Just for Clarification. Who is John Dehlin? What does he do?

He's a member of the church who (like many of us), found out about the church's real history and had several disciplinary run-ins with church leadership since he was open about it. He sways between the church and exmos. He has a great "Mormon Stories Podcast" where he interviews well-known current and former members.

http://mormonstories.org/john-dehlin/

Remember that Kate was tried by a Bishop 2,000 miles away while she was a member of another Stake and Ward.

The jokers going after Dehlin have to look him in the eye.

Plus you know the church treating men and women equally has different ways to ex a woman and a male with the priesthood. Kate only had to be exed by the bishop and his counselors, the stake has to go after John. Yep I love equality.

I think Dehlin has immense courage. He is strong enough to tell the truth in the face of church pressure and strong enough to put up with condemnation from people who think he should share their black-and-white vision of the world. Kate is equally courageous. Both of them stood up to the church and both were willing to accept excommunication. That the church decided to treat the two cases differently has nothing to do with the character of him and her.

Why did the church excommunicate only Kate? I think they (the Ballard faction of the Q12) initially wanted to kick them both out. The church acted first against Kate because she presented an organized institutional challenge to the religion's power structure. Dehlin shared Kelly's views on gender but did not organize, so he was viewed as a less immediate danger.

The decision not to discipline Dehlin came after Kate's excommunication, when the church realized what a massive price that excommunication entailed. Perhaps the "liberals" (a relative term) in the Q12 fought back against Ballard and prevented Dehlin's punishment in a desire to avoid compounding the self-inflicted injury. But whatever the internal politics there is good evidence that the backlash after Kelly's excommunication persuded the church not to kick Dehlin out.

Brilliant response, in my opinion.

I appreciate both Dehlin and Kelley. The Church ex'd Kelly because she represents a much more focused, and therefore bigger threat. Her issue can resonate with a good 50 percent of the membership, if the women had the courage to address inequities. Dehlin's behaviour is more "egregious" by far, but Kate, to them, is a very DANGEROUS woman.

Sure it's sexism. John has the sacred priesthood and must be saved at all costs. Kate is expendable as a woman. She must be put in her place.

I like John. I admire his courage in facing historical falsehoods head on, and making the truth available to those who want it. I've learned a lot from his podcasts. I wish him a fulfilling satisfying life.

I think Dehlin has done much more than most members would/have been excommunicated for. The difference is, he has managed to become a force to be reckoned with, ie, a public enemy who will cause waves if he is ex'd. After Kelly, they don't want to risk the bad PR again. JMO

LDS Inc. got a real black eye from all of the negative PR regarding the Kate Kelly excommunication. And we all know how TSCC hates bad PR.

John Dehlin has a much louder megaphone than Kate. I think TSCC learned their lesson.

Can you imagine the headlines?

"LDS Church excommunicates member who ministers to LGBT community"
"LDS Church expels talk show host who tries to prevent suicides amongst LGBT youth"
"LDS Church excommunicates member who speaks honestly of Church history"

The fallout would be tremendous.

TSCC tends to excommunicate people that have testimonies but are out of line. Kate Kelly was begging to have her membership left intact. So, Kate Kelly was cast out.

TSCC does not usually excommunicate people that have no fear of being ex'd because those kinds of people can do real damage. So, no action was taken against John Dehlin.

That's the really sadistic part. John's membership is tenuous, but Kate's was extremely important to her.

To rip Kate's away and leave John with something he may not even fully want... it's symbolic for the backwards twisted way TSCC operates.

...that Kate Kelley's dissension made worldwide headlines, while Dehlin's voice is primarily on-line. Church leaders don't like it when members embarrass them in worldwide media. They ex'ed Kate in order to suppress the impact of the whole Ordain Women movement.

The way the church handled Kate shows how they really feel about WO. I was telling my wife today that the old boys in SLC will probably allow same sex sealings before WO.