So, my wife and I have been married a little over a year now. Things are going great, we just have a little spat now and then, and once such spat began last night and carried over into today. Turkey day!

I agreed to take my wife to a nice Japanese restaurant that she loves to make up for her having to work Thanksgiving day, today. My wife did not wear makeup when we went out to said dinner. My wife is kind of a farm girl and doesn't spend quite as much time on that sort of thing as a lot of other women do. I kind of secretly wish that she would doll herself up a little bit more at times. I find her very attractive when she makes the effort. I haven't communicated these wishes to her, however, to avoid hurting her feelings. Last night something happened that bothered me enough to say something, though.

After we got home she had some previous plans made to watch a late night movie at a coworkers house with some friends from work (all females). Well, now she decides to go through the effort of putting her face on! A dinner at a nice restaurant with her husband didn't require makeup, but an impropmtu little movie party with some girl friends warranted spending the time to put on her makeup. I felt a little hurt and offended about this, so in the most tactful way I could I asked her why she didn't put makeup on for our dinner, but now she was for her friends.

As expected, this didn't go over well. She turned it all around on me and expressed hurt that I think she looks like sh!t when we go out (her words not mine), and said I was being crazy and unreasonable for even being bothered by something like that. So here we are on Thanksgiving Day mad at each other and not having a very good Holiday at all. She is missing Thanksgiving dinner which I feel bad about, but will be off work at 8pm tonight, and hopefully we can turn things around and have a better day.

What do you rfm'ers think? Am I an @$$hole? Is it unreasonable of me to be upset over something like this? Where do my wife and I go from here?

Oh, and just to clear something up because I know some people will be speculating and letting their imaginations run wild: she invited me to attend this movie party with her friends last night, so I have reason to trust that is what she was really doing. I don't think she was making herself pretty for "someone else" or anything inappropriate like that.

she doesn't care about pleasing her husband ?

The first few years of marriage are typically rough. I know that the first five years of my marriage were pretty rocky. Now things are really great and we've kind of figured each other out. There are certain things that I've had to just let go and there's certain things that my wife has to let go about me. So you may or may not "win" in this particular case, but it may be more of trying to figure each other out.

I can see your point about feeling like she spent more time to get together with her friends instead of you. I'm not sure if there is more behind this story, but one comment you made stuck out to me: "I find her very attractive when she makes the effort." Do you find her attractive when she doesn't have makeup on? I wonder if you may have given her vibes that you're placing her attractiveness based on if she's wearing makeup or not. Sometimes things like this may be communicated non-verbally like in body language, facial expressions, tone of voice, etc. Now, I could be completely wrong, but I'm just going off of what you wrote above and thinking of a possibility.

Either way, it would probably be good to wait for the situation to descalate and then at some point in time later, sit down with her and talk with her openly about it. Don't be confrontational and just let her talk. Hear what she has to say about it. Counseling may be a good option to look into as well... I know that there can be an adversion to going to counseling, but it really can help quite a bit - especially in those first few years of marriage while you figure each other out.

Anyway... I hope that this helps. Best of luck to you and your wife!

Oh - and if possible, mend the bridge with whatever duct tape you can muster for the sake of Thanksgiving :)

Thank you for your comments guy. Exodus, to address your question about my comment on whether or not I find my wife attractive without make up: I still do find her attractive. In fact she is without makeup so much that I really do not even give it a second thought sometimes. Then when she does put makeup on and do her hair nice and everything it takes me by surprise how attractive she really is. I find her so beautiful that wish she would do it more often. However, my main gripe isn't even really the fact that she doesn't do herself up more often. I guess it is more that she seemed to prioritize looking good for her friends over me. Maybe it's immature of me, I don't know. I couldn't help but feel slighted over it.

A lot of female behavior is geared toward outdoing other women. For example, see this:
http://discover.umn.edu/news/arts-humanities/university-minnesota-research-reveals-luxury-products-role-relationships

I'd say split the difference. Buy her some expensive accessories (some nice earrings or a necklace, maybe?) with the expectation that she'll doll up for your next evening out. If your wallet isn't squealing, offer to take her shopping and let her pick out a nice dress.

Ego tends to (and this is by no means universal) operate differently between the genders. Men boost their egos by who they are seen with -- powerful men and expensively attired women. Women will do do things a bit differently-- expensive accessories indicate that their men can provide adequately for them.

It's all signalling. So, splurge a bit, and she'll probably be happy to go out looking a bit more dolled up than she otherwise might be inclined to.

Men often think women get dressed up for their benefit. We actually get dressed up for each other's benefit and to impress each other, lol.

There's something called "girl hot" and "man hot" when it comes to choosing outfits and makeup for going out.

I'm not gonna lie, this is a bit of an odd fight, but maybe normal for newlyweds? Anyway, good luck, hopefully it can be resolved without too many hurt feelings.

This is absolutely 100% true and I was going to say the same thing!

Plus if you have not mentioned it perhaps she thought it didn't matter to you.

And SO are suppose to love us unconditionally.

But, it is true, women dress up with other women in mind..They don't want other women to think they are fat, getting old looking, etc.

If you start demanding that she behaves in certain ways to please you, you are on the path to losing your wife.

If makeup is something that is required to be happy with your wife, I would think your priorities are a bit mixed up.

Remember women don't just use logic and tact, they also use feelings when they communicate.

Your wife probably felt comfortable being around you to the point she didn't feel she needed the make up. I have to ask, did you wear a tie, or spiff up yourself? If not it probably sent a signal she didn't need to either.

When a clutch of women get together, they have to try to out dress, out shine or out do each other. Is a natural thing. In that case she feels she has to put on a show.

Now do the ritual of ending arguments. Have food ready for her when she gets home. Make sure the house is clean, especially the kitchen. Kiss her when she gets home and tell her you missed her.

flowers... You need flowers for her when she gets home.
Were you dressed up for the dinner?
My wife and I tend to dress alike (dressed up or down) depending on the restaurant or event. In the jeep going to DQ, bandana and prob no makeup. Nice steak house, dress/skirt for her and prob a nicer shirt/slacks and maybe even a sport coat.

As a woman, for a very long time, I'd conclude that she felt comfortable going to dinner with you sans makeup. She probably wore comfortable clothes and didn't "dress up". It has nothing to do with anything else.
The exception would be going to a really fancy, dress-up event with you. In that case, she would probably wear make up.

She probably knew that the event with the gals would be more dress-up which would mean make up.

Next time you see her in makeup, give her a compliment.
Refrain from making wearing make up about you and her friends.
It's about the event most likely.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/27/2014 06:17PM by SusieQ#1.

And one more thing. Getting into a I'm right-you're wrong is not very healthy. It leads to 'keeping score'. In marriage, events happen. Deal with them and then move on.

Coming here to seek advice on how to mend is great. Coming here to seek a jury's decision sounds more like you're in a competition.

I completely agree here. Perhaps I didn't ask the best question. My wife and I remind each other all the time that we are a team and it should never be a me vs you type thing. Advice taken.

I think my wife Is beautiful without makeup. Guess I'm lucky. (Honey are you reading this?)

It doesn't matter if you're wrong or right. Her feelings were hurt. Apologize.

But his were too...remember it's not about the makeup, it's about the message she sent whether intended or not. She should be considerate of his feelings as well.

I don't happen to think wearing makeup or not wearing makeup is about him. It is her choice.

As a male you need to take any online relationship advice with a huge grain of salt.

I guarantee if you rewrote your post from a female point of view (the husband showed up for a holiday dinner date in a comfortable yet old sports jersey and then put on nice clothes to go play poker with his boys) you (as the female) would get support for your hurt feelings.

My take is that you both have different things that mean---to each of you---"love" and "caring" and "consideration."

To you, makeup is one way that you would "understand" she was "saying" to you: I LOVE YOU!!!

To her, and as you explain it, makeup is probably not a "language" she uses to communicate love---and unless you have told her YOUR perspective before, she has no way of knowing this.

At some point in the future (say: sometime after the New Year has begun), if you haven't yet told her the importance of makeup TO YOU, then pick a really good time and explain to her that this is one way YOU understand "love."

That to YOU, makeup when you go out to a restaurant, etc. means that SHE is showing love.

Talk to each other about this until you BOTH understand where the other one is coming from.

After that, and regardless of what you both decide to do in the future, your relationship will come out ahead and will have been strengthened.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/27/2014 06:55PM by tevai.

Thank you, Tevai. This was possibly the most helpful and insightful post on this thread. I think I may have misconstrued her not wearing makeup as not caring when she chooses to show love other ways. We do all have our different ways of showing it. Thanks again for your insight.

Tevai had some very wise words above, with which I agree.

I've been married 23+ years to a man very different in both temperament and background from me. Our first (at least) 7 years were VERY volatile and rocky.

The way you personally experience your beloved's actions as showing you appreciation, love, acceptance, etc, is going to differ from what they are intending to show - because they too have personal preferences of how they wish for love to be shown to them or what actions make them feel most accepted or appreciated.

Don't make the mistake of assuming that because your beloved did/said something that you didn't like (no makeup for the dinner - many reasons for that, as well as makeup applied for the girls-night thing), that they did it because they don't care about you, or (worse) are looking to hurt you. There lies serious danger.

Communication is key - and diplomatic, gentle communication is even more critical. I'm sure you can find a way to say that you felt your wife didn't put much importance upon the special Japanese dinner you wanted to give her - the makeup seems to be rather secondary to your feeling like she didn't seem to appreciate the effort you went to in order to care for her needs after a rough day working on Thanksgiving.

In other words - the makeup is a stand in for something else. You said you find your wife attractive without makeup - and that with makeup you appreciate the enhanced glamour that makeup can provide. Nothing wrong with that. I personally don't wear a lot of makeup but know how well my husband (who adores me "as is") gets turned on when I doll it up - because he knows I'm doing it for him. Not because I need to - but because it's something I know he loves receiving from me, and it's not a big deal for me to give it, so on the special occasions I doll up. The rest of the time I'm a plain jane.

If you were demanding your wife wear makeup all of the time because you don't like her without it, ever, that's a whole different story. But the makeup at this one dinner seems to say to me you were hoping she'd know it would mean a lot to you for her to signify - in some way - that she knew you went to extra special care to do something nice for her.

This is already way too long. What I am trying to say is communicating honestly in a loving manner is so important. Don't get into the mind-reading game or blame game of assuming you know exactly what your partner intended from their actions.

Anytime you find yourself wishing you "hoped she would just know..." something about you - Stop. Believe it or not, she may not know quite a lot of what makes you tick. So instead of saying "I wish you'd worn makeup at the Japanese dinner out the other night because I like you with makeup on" say "I felt a little unappreciated at the Japanese dinner the other night, like you felt the girls were more important than me".

Feeling unappreciated can take many, many forms. The trick lies in communicating it without insinuating that you think your partner has done something wrong. Make it about you, not her.

Thank you, Frogdogs.

To bluntly answer your question, yes, you were wrong.


I would suggest that you apologize and send her flowers. Then, you should both read The Five Love Languages and try to figure out how you both send and receive love.

Since your wife was hanging out with co-workers, she may have felt like she needed to dress similarly to when she is at work (assuming she normally dresses nicely and wears make-up) or she may have known others would be dressing up for the party. If she normally doesn't dress up or wear make-up to work, she may have decided to do so for a little fun with "the girls" just because she felt like it.

Maybe in the rush to get home from work and then head out to the restaurant, she forgot because she feels comfortable with you and was looking forward to spending some relaxing time with you.

I am a woman who rarely dresses up or wears any make-up - although I do enjoy doing so on the rare occasion. Sometimes dressing up just slips my mind. My best guess is that your wife did not intend to insult you or leave you feeling like second-best. I hope the two of you will be able to patch things up this evening. :)

Thanks, P&P. I hope you had a Happy Thanksiving.

I missed reading your screen name. Was it dumb ass or stupid head? Does not matter - you loose even if you are right. You need to learn how to say 3 magical words and how to say them often. The 3 magical words are "I AM SORRY". The quicker you say them the better your life will be.

Shit. You need to get her a present NOW. Something that makes her feel sexy... whatever that is. Like, a lacy night gown, but not like, a lingere thing (look up Eileen West Night gowns)

And here is the thing: You made your point and I am sure she will doll up for you more now. You were right to talk to her about how you feel. And there is also nothing wrong with her feelings being hurt. And since you love her and you want today to go well, buy her a present and tell her you love her and everything should be ok.

That your feelings were hurt is understandable, but I would think of it this way: She trusts you. She doesn't feel the need to put on spanx and makeup when she is with you because she knows youll think she is pretty and fabulous anyway. She doesn't feel as confident around her girlfriends. Its a compliment really. But yeah, nightgown!

Duly noted, Suzanne. ;)

It generally takes a few years before kinks like this work themselves out. I think you both a still a little new at marriage and I don't think either if you us right or wrong.

With your wife, she may have thought you were criticizing her after a long hard day. You may have thought she slighted you by paying more attention to the gal friends. It happens, it's done. So now you get to make up.

I suggest you do the flowers, as mentioned above, with a sincere I didn't mean to hurt your feelings. Reassure her that you love her and didn't mean to sound like you were criticizing.

Spend a little time giving her a back rub or draw her a bubble bath. Maybe cook her a nice dinner--Something you know she'll like. Then cuddle for a while without putting the moves on. Let her know you love her for who she is.

Best wishes, most guys have had similar experiences. The Boner.

Your wife is comfortable with you and obviously feels that you love her no matter what, not wearing make-up around you and not feeling the need to get all dolled up for you is a complement, she doesn't think you judge her on her looks.

Women are, as many others have said, in competition with each other, she felt they would judge her and so she obviously didn't want to deal with that.

I think this is a case of her needing flowers from you. Please let her know you think she is beautiful. At this point I would imagine she a little self conscious and is wondering if you find her attractive.

As a woman and a woman who hates to wear make-up but does for special occasions, you screwed up.

This for me is a very sensitive topic, and my sister and I even have my mom's famous phrase down pat "make sure you do a good make up job". Sersioulsy.

I would tell her she is beautifl with and without, and buy here some awesome earrings that are what SHE would like, not you.

Then at some point maybe have a non-confrontational convo on her make-up decisions. You may learn something about her.

I never felt I was feminine enough, on the other hand I was sexually abused for most of my childhood, so I hated to look feminine for that reason, and I was a tomboy. still kinda am at 47.

My husband (now gay ex) fell in love with me how I was then. I wore little or no make-up, but I dressed kick ass. Had short hair and still do. he would be surprised when I dressed up and put on make-up, but it was oh wow you look nice like always.


so there may be some reason she does or doesn't, and you will want to figure that out and adjust your expectations.

I should wear make-up now, I am looking very scary. But as a newlywed I was pretty damn cute without, and that is what he loved.

Good luck!!

So, wife wears make-up for "friends", but not for her husband?

There's something wrong there.

Nope women are judgmental but wives don't expect their husbands to be judge-y like that, plus woman are more comfortable with being themselves with their husbands. So as weird as it sounds it's actually kind of normal.

"friends" might be a little off target... If she were going to meet her former college roommates at the home of one of them, odds are she would NOT have done the makeover. But co-workers...

Does she wear make up to work? Was she making herself look like the person they see every day?

You always want to give your partner the benefit of the doubt, even when you get served the divorce papers.

The husband demands the wife wears makeup? There is something wrong there. Who/what does he love?

There should never be the expectation that a woman wear makeup. Women are beautiful without it.

I'm guessing kinky sex is out of the question.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/27/2014 08:14PM by Dave the Atheist.