I'm hearing things. Will TSCC fold back on the new policy? The backlash seems to be much more than they expected. Will they modify it or dig in?

Elder Dallin Oaks is an honorary board of directors member of the World Congress of Families.
http://worldcongress.org/

To put it another way, an Apostle of Jesus Christ (according to Mormons) is on the board of directors of a hate group.
https://www.splcenter.org/news/2015/10/21/everything-you-need-know-about-anti-lgbtq-world-congress-families-wcf

The LDS church could just as likely sink their heels in deeper on this issue.

michaelm (not logged in) Wrote:
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> To put it another way, an Apostle of Jesus Christ
> (according to Mormons) is on the board of
> directors of a hate group.

Thrown in feeling super self entitled over forged scripture that claims Jesus toured America (before He disappeared) and that dark skin is a curse from god, stupid secret handshakes, magic underwear, baptism for dead people, polygamy, you have MORmONISM in a nut shell.

The only problem with folding is that I imagine it would piss off the most entrenched, devoted and die-hard TBMs who have already rationalized the new policy and see it as inspired. No win for the Church.

Yep. They've really put themselves in a bind here.

Don't back off - they lose a lot of members and go down in history as bigoted.

Back off - they risk showing that they weren't inspired in the first place, and that they're fallible. It would put every future mandate into question.

Either way they're screwed!

I hope they back off!!!!!! That would be great and it would really affect them way more!

Like a cheap service station map they'll fold, and just as awkwardly.

You're being ageist now Don - and I resemble that remark.

;)

I recall fighting with those things to get them folded back up, and they were never right again after the first use. My wife was driving, and I asked her which way is north? "Up," she said.

Smart wife.

Perhaps, but I doubt it.

The more fanatical members will stay. The criticism is viewed as persecution which reinforces their self-righteous view of themselves. Even my semi-moderate TBM friends are not really bothered and would never leave over this or any other issue.

The core membership will stay, pay, and obey.

Even if they have gay family and friends!??? They'll stay with the morg???

Being homosexual is a choice according to mormon doctrine. Acting on it is a sin like murder and must be punished.

Remember the mormon order of priorities is church first, family second.

The church is always in the right. "Obedience is the first law of the gospel."

It royally fucks people up.

the1v Wrote:
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> Remember the mormon order of priorities is church
> first, family second.

Unless you one of the supremely successful mormons. Then it goes like this: "Money first; the church second....

Ummm, were you thinking there should be something else on my list?"

It's interesting some of the comments that I'm reading on Facebook. For example one woman posts a LDS website talking about the new policy and writes that she loves her cousin (who is gay), she hopes this will clarify where the church stands, and that she's stuck with her because they're family. Her cousin comments that she still thinks the church is being discriminatory and that it further alienates the gay community.

The TBM cousins writes, "we'll have to agree to disagree.... I love you."

Serious cog dis.

They have already folded. It's a matter of time before it becomes transparent. The church is over. Sane membership now realize that it is all a farce.

If the church decides not to go through with the new policy, then we have proof that public opinion is more important to the church than what god wants the church to do. If they go through with the policy, then we have proof that the mormon god cares more about the dollars than the children. I guess it sucks to be perfect. Making mistakes in the name of god is kind of hard to recover from.

the church P.R. MEN will write a speech for some member of the big 15 to read publicly explaining that the "policy" was "misunderstood" and will change it.

I agree Dave. This is probably what they will end up doing, they will play the persecution card claiming that their policy was "misunderstood".

..What may happen is what happens with other denominations in similar predictions. It's called schism.

For Christianity in general, there are two big ones.
The East West Schism (Catholic and Orthodox split)
The Western Schism

Mormonism has already had one after Smith was killed. Those that followed Young into Utah, and those that stayed in Missouri (RLDS) under Smith's son.

But mostly, I think the hardliners remain and LDS-ism becomes smaller, while other just leave for whatever lays ahead of them. 19th centurty Mormonism ended with polygamy finally ending. We are seeing 20th century Mormonism ending now.

What remains is what 21 century Mormonism will be, and that is yt to be seen.

I'd love to be a fly on the wall to hear what The Brethren are saying to each other as more and more chocolate pudding hits the fan and splatters all over their walls and ceilings.

The Court of Public Opinion has rendered a unanimous verdict, and we ain't done renderin' yet.

They should dig up Gordon, hire a ventriloquist, and have Gordon announce on camera:

'I don't know that we teach that.'

Then they can blame it on a dead prophet (again).

I see it that the church has set the bar too high. Singling out the lgbtq community when there are so many other damned sinners and scoundrels in this marvelous world is just wrong. There are too many other people the church should be picking on, focusing on the gays is just prejudice.

Sure. Picking on gays is just prejudice, but that's who The Brethren ARE ... deep down in their core values.

The Brethren have spent generations of time doing their best to hide their core values from public view by lying, lying and more lying.

They slipped up this time and actually TOLD THE TRUTH about who they are and what they really care about.

Telling the truth can be a mistake, like right about now.

Part of the deep outrage out there is from the realization that The Brethren have spoken their truth. The Church membership in particular prefers lies. The Church was founded on lies, built on lies, and is run today by a bunch of professional liars.

They effed up and told the truth.

Now they will pay.

Brilliant observation. Plus 1!

I predict Uchtdorf and another of top 15 will resign their positions. Any thoughtful person would not want their legacy to be that they were in charge of these actions.

I think this policy was inspired by Packer, spearheaded by Oaks with a few of the hardliners his 'flying monkeys'.

But Uchtdorf and a couple of the moderate GAs are pissed. This is their legacy and was supposed to be a rock star/hero worship golden years. They thought the idea was stupid to begin with and they are not going to defend this policy. EVER.

I think you're right.

No way in Hell any GA will resign. That would require integrity. If they had any integrity, they never would have made it to GA status in the first place.

southern idaho inactive Wrote:
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> https://www.lds.org/pages/church-handbook-changes?
> cid=HP_WE_11-11-2015_dPFD_fCNWS_xLIDyL1-A_&lang=en
> g


This clarification just answered a lot of questions that have been tossed around this week.

Some KEY points:


The provisions of Handbook 1, Section 16.13, that restrict priesthood ordinances for minors, apply only to those children whose primary residence is with a couple living in a same-gender marriage or similar relationship. As always, local leaders may request further guidance in particular instances when they have questions.

When a child living with such a same-gender couple has already been baptized and is actively participating in the Church, provisions of Section 16.13 do not require that his or her membership activities or priesthood privileges be curtailed or that further ordinances be withheld. Decisions about any future ordinances for such children should be made by local leaders with their prime consideration being the preparation and best interests of the child.....


It's not so cut and dry, as they say. There will always be problems with a policy like this concerning the children.
The problem is that in joint custody cases from a divorce, "primary custody" often changes in the school year, and the summer, etc., and as the children get older they often change their primary residence.


I wonder; would same sex married couples with children in their custody probably be interested in the LDS Church in the first place?

Of course they will. They are creating the biggest strawman ever made and they will burn it this weekend.

It will one of these:

Not official, so we can change it

we listen to our members and we will adjust it

it was the printer, so we destroyed it

an angel told us to change it

it was another big misunderstanding because of the media

we prayed really hard and the lord told us gays are ok, but no marriage in the temple

It will be the head PR guy having a press conference and probably uchdorf will speak or at least be there

Christopherson burned his gay PR cred last week, otherwise it'd be him, it also cannot be one of the lawyer-apostles, it'd be a huge mistake to have oaks do it, but the church has made bigger mistakes.

Fuck no! They've already got a bunker "us against them" mentality. What's a few thousand members who resign. It's simply the Mormon Lord pruning the vineyard so the vines bring forth better fruit.

I wish that I knew some of these TBMs that are leaving that everyone else on the Board posts about. My wife's TBM relatives are just as strong as before. They'll have a little extra explaining, but hey, the church is true, isn't it?

I would be more convinced the Morg had a problem if thousands resign during the mass resignation this Saturday. But, alas, I only see a few hundreds at the most. The pessimistic Boner.

It really doesn't matter if they do or not. They will not completely go back on what they said. The one thing I saw

stated that the children already baptised can stay baptised
which means that there will be no baptisms for children
of SS couples. So essentially the won't fold, they'll just
play this game of "lets pretend we are softening our stance"
which is a big fucking lie.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2015 02:02PM by saucie.

They decided to "clarify" their position to mean the new policy only applies to children whose "primary" residence is with the same-sex parents.

Apparently, they are still fine with same-sex marriage being an immediate qualifier for apostasy - unlike rape and attempted murder and other such minor offenses.

https://www.lds.org/pages/church-handbook-changes?lang=eng