My boyfriend was raised strict mormon and even is a RM, he realized that that specific lifestyle was not for him and has left the church. We started dating in his transition (I am not mormon) and for nearly a year his family blames me for him no longer being "righteous." He has made it very clear to his family that I am not the reason for this change, that he alone made these choices within the last few months.

We have been talking about marriage recently and he says he is hesitant to make a step toward the future until I make an effort to reconcile with his family, of whom I am untrusting.

Over the course of a year they have made statements to the point that I am limiting his eternal salvation, he will not have an eternal marriage with me, his children will not be sealed to his grandparents, I have caused his life to become the worst it has ever been, etc.

We even went a few states away to visit his sister in Oregon. During this trip I was stung by a bee and found out that I was slightly allergic, my body reacted badly and wouldn't improve even after days. I am uninsured and could not pay for treatment so his sister graciously offered to pay for a doctor visit even if I could not compensate her. We returned home and she hadn't even given it a week before she was badgering me to pay her back, not once did she ask how I was doing. She had also found out that her brother had stopped wearing his garments and I suppose that contributed to this drama. I paid her back and she said that I was a leech to her brother, that I truly wasn't the one who paid back the money, and she defriended me on facebook. I thought the drama was over until she decided to continually slander me to my bf and his family. Long story short I gave up and we have not restored that relationship.

It is hard to forgive them for what they have said, especially since they have taken more favorably to his brother's TBM girlfriend than myself. During the holidays his sister broke down claiming she wanted to apologize and his mother stopped the talking behind the back. Should I talk to his mother and explain how what was said has hurt me and hope it takes away the scarring? Do you think his sister is sincere and should I try to talk/work things out with her too?

You could give it one more honest to goodness, well thought out and planned shot so that your boyfriend sees you did all you could and that the situation is not winnable.. Include your boyfriend in how you will approach it. He has put it all on you which doesn't sit right with me. You should be working this out together.

Yes, you need to confront the mother directly but a united front is where this is at because the mother will act very different if it is you alone instead of you two together. And, whatever else you do, out class her. Often that means saying less but letting what you do say carry a lot of weight.

"Include your boyfriend in how you will approach it"

Excellent advice. In my experience, when you involve someone else in the approach, they be come "vested" in the approach (they grow ties to it). He will help with the approach. If/when it doesn't work, then he will feel pretty much the same loss as you.

As for TBM relatives... sometimes you will never be good enough. I really hate to say that, but it's the truth. It can vary from person-to-person, but just be aware that this may be an outcome.

Your boyfriend needs to run interference with his family. It's on him to insist that they treat you respectfully. Telling you that you have caused his life to become "the worst it's ever been" is not treating you with respect. It's not hard to understand why you are untrusting of them.

Explain to him that he needs to set parameters with them for interaction. If they can't behave with civility toward you then the visit or phone call immediately comes to a close. If he is not willing to do this then there may not be much hope for the two of you.

Why does he expect you to be the one to make nice when you didn't cause the conflict?

In my opinion, he should be backing you up, defending you and letting them know that he loves you and they need to treat you better.

If you're talking about getting married, this issue is something that needs to be worked out before you take that step. As his wife, you should come first, and he should be the one who deals with his family when they act badly, not you.

I'd be very careful about this family dynamic if I was you.

If my family was behaving this way towards my partner I would not be telling my partner to "work it out" I would be telling my family to pull their heads out of their asses.

^^^^This^^^^^ Your boyfriend may have left the church but he's not developed his independence from his family. If he doesn't do this, you will be married to both him and his TBM relatives.

It's time to have a talk with your boyfriend about his family and YOUR expectations that he tell them of his love and support for you.

Great call NonSeq!

Yeah I agree with Summer, Debbie, and NS. Why is it on you to "reconcile"? You did not make him leave the church.

Why isn't he standing up for you? Having your significant other's back is part of this whole marriage thing. It should concern you if he doesn't have your back before you are married.

"Should I talk to his mother and explain how what was said has hurt me and hope it takes away the scarring? Do you think his sister is sincere and should I try to talk/work things out with her too?"




If you can understand viscerally that you are dealing with neurotic children rather than healthy adults, then that is the foundation upon which you can maintain your own sanity, and avoid absorbing the emotional baggage being tossed at you.

I wouldn't expect fellowship, friendship, warm-regards, or even sensible adult conduct from that crew. And I would not make further overtures: let them make them if they choose.

They are unlikely to ever be fond of you - don't waste your time and sanity hoping otherwise. They are mormons - and you are only beginning to understand what that means.

Good luck ...

IMO, this is all backwards. Your BF needs to be insisting that his family makes amens with you. If he doesn't, you're getting a big snapshot of your future with him.

Why is it your responsibility to make amends to people who have been very unkind to you? You not being a mormon is NO excuse for them to be rude. If they think it is, you might want to rethink this relationship.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/2014 11:50PM by madalice.

madalice Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> IMO, this is all backwards. Your BF needs to be
> insisting that his family makes amens with you. If
> he doesn't, you're getting a big snapshot of your
> future with him.
>
> Why is it your responsibility to make amends to
> people who have been very unkind to you? You not
> being a mormon is NO excuse for them to be rude.
> If they think it is, you might want to rethink
> this relationship.

BINGO! the fact that the boyfriend wants to heap this entirely implausible burden onto what should be his closest ally is a huge red flag indicating a very dysfunctional relationship in my estimation. nobody plays the blame game as viciously as MORmONS,
.... OK well maybe Joseph Stalin did, but that kind of proves the real point more than not.

Get away from this family as soon as and as far away as possible. Unless you want your life to be a continual guilt trip in which you will NEVER be good enough.

^^^^^^this right here^^^^^^

If you marry into this family you can count on a lifetime of ruined holidays, guilt trips, and misery as they will never get over the fact that you don't believe in TSCC.

I'm saying this having just completed one of the worst thanksgiving holidays in history at my.wife's parents house due to the fact that we left the church.

Why spend your life going through that time after time? You'll never be good enough without converting and they'll take every chance to point that out. In reality you're marrying into a family of weirdos. Save yourself a lot of long term headache by going through a little heartache now and get out of the relationship and avoid dating mormons from now on

Myself, I just try to stay away from dating Mormons and ex-Mormons alike. They, or their families usually will always have it in them. It is a cultic paradigm that is difficult to shed; judgmental to the extreme, and decidedly insular.

Most people who I date never know that I had anything to do with Mormonism, but then again, I don't come from a close family of Mormons and my only Mormon close relative is a sister living several states away. The rest of the family is non or ex.

You quite possibly will never measure up or be accepted by this man's family. Consider yourself lucky. Mormons are fucked up.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/03/2014 02:45AM by No Mo.

I'm so sorry, confused girl. 3X and the other posters are right. You are "confused" because normal people don't behave this way. Many of us on this board have had problems with our Mormon family members, and once in a while, it is necessary to just break off all contact.

At best, you might develop a cool, distant, submissive role in that family, in which you do not talk, but must listen, and must bear with verbal and mental abuse. They will try to break you up. They would not stop, even if you got married, because they are aiming for eternity. Would you want to bring an innocent child into this family?

There are lots of fish in the sea. Break off now, as it has been only a few months. You will get over him. I don't like the way he is treating you, blaming you, and putting all the responsibility onto you to make amends. My wise grandmother used to say, "Never come between a man and his mother, because his mother will always win."

The apple and the tree. Have you been with him long enough to see the crazy that they put in him? He's not recovered yet. It takes time to undo brainwashing. RUN LOLA RUN!

How is your boyfriends TBM family planning on making amends with his girlfriend?

Yes. What are they doing?

I would approach HIS family as a "WE" and not a "ME" (YOU alone).

Talk to him for guidance and decide together.

RMM

I agree with the others that this is a warning sign about your future. The comparisons you're making about yourself vs another relative's girlfriend is also troubling, because that should not matter to you. Your relationship is yours.

If you are to be an engaged/married couple, then that means that he will defend YOU above them every time. Ask him if he's willing to do this before you "make amends" to them. Will he stand by you?

If he waffles, even for a second. RUN.

Ask him if he's going to demand his family make amends with you, due to their atrocious treatment of you, even as he demands you do that to them for simply existing as a non-Mormon. If he waffles for a second, RUN.

(side note...if there are other details you're omitting that are your offenses... yes, you need to make amends for those).

He may be a great guy, but that doesn't mean he's the guy for you if he's not willing to stand up for you.

Welcome to your future. This probably will not change. You will always be blamed and they will consistently badger your BF(husband) about it...forever...unless your BF lays down the law.

I think it's important that your BF has your back, and you'd better hope he doesn't revert, because there is a chance he will, especially when (if) you have children. There will be very high pressure to return to the fold and raise your children as such. Your husband might want to return to his roots. Mine did and you bet when we went through the typical trials of marriage, it was all entirely my fault for not having "the gospel" in the home and not having a temple marriage. This has the potential of ending badly. My instinct is to tell you to cut your losses. Do you really, really love this man enough to put up with this family's bullshit forever? Is he really out, because he needs to start establishing some clear boundaries, one of which is, "You will not treat my wife/girlfriend this way."

I do not think think it's a matter of YOU reconciling. They're treating you like shit. What is there to reconcile? He needs to be 100% on your side. This was HIS decision. They may never believe it, but he needs to have your back on this. THEY need to reconcile with YOU and treat you with the kindness and respect that you deserve. End of story.

The best time for marriage counseling is before you get married. Set the groundwork now. Many of the people on this board have really lived--some of us a really long time and the advice given is heartfelt.

Your boyfriend let the church physically, but do not underestimate the baggage he's dragging behind. I left the church knowing it was a fraud, but still, all those years of my Mormon upbringing had to be unlearned so that real life could begin.

All the best. I'm pulling for you.

P.S. Even my TBM brother stood up to my TBM mother when things got bad between her and his nevermo wife. I really respect him for that.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/03/2014 11:00AM by blueorchid.

Your boyfriend doesn't yet understand that this conflict will never go away, even if you "make amends" to these rude people.

He left the church, and he isn't going back to it.

This means his family now sees it as their primary mission to make him come back to the church. Nothing else matters. You are just a symbol of this conflict.

He still thinks he can have a good relationship with his family and a good relationship with a woman who is not part of the church. Right now, this is not possible.

It's not about you. If he breaks up with you and dates another woman who is not Mormon, this exact same drama will repeat itself. He needs to recognize that this is what happens when you leave a dogmatic religious community or fail to conform to its demands. Ask any gay person who has been shunned by his or her fundamentalist Christian relatives, and you will hear a story that is exactly what you are going through right now.

Until he understands that there is presently no way to have a happy relationship with his family AND a relationship that does not conform to the Church plan, he can't make decisions about what he really wants.

This conflict is a major growth point for so many people who have gone through it. They must choose whether to remain an emotionally stunted child or to make their own choices as a mature adult. Best of luck to him and you.

There's a lot of useful advice given.

I suspect that you and your boyfriend are relatively young and just getting started in life. It seems like you two have not yet established an independent adult life. So you may be getting ahead of yourself anyone thinking about marriage right now.

You see, I'm an ExMo and my spouse is a neverMo. My TBM family is nuts! But I don't depend on my TBM family for money, attention, validation, emotional support, or entertainment. I've got too much going on in MY life with MY family to give them much thought.

I don't ever hear TBM family members say nasty things during the Holidays because we've got our own thing going on. I don't see them post obnoxious things on social media because I hid them. And I don't worry what's being said behind my back because I know that we are financially successful, we have lots of free time for fun activities, and we have a cadre of good friends.

If you want validation from his family you will never get it. In order for this relationship to work I think you two have to live life your way and establish physical and emotional independence from his TBM family. You boyfriend may not be ready for that yet, so you may want to hold off on marriage plans for now.

I would suggest that neither you nor your BF are ready to consider marriage. You both need more experience in dealing with other adults.

As long as you are putting yourself in the path of destructive people, you are vulnerable. I'm reading between the lines, but I'm concerned that you aren't mature enough to make the big decisions and changes required by married life.

When this drama passes, spend some time analyzing why you put up with any of it. You deserve better. Are you going to go thru life being blinded to abuse by your emotions? Did you trust these people because they happened to share genes with your BF?

He should have dealt with this immediately, but you must take responsibility for allowing it to happen to you.

You will likely never be able to sure things up with his family and you will always be blamed. I believe in my own case that even after 37 years my family still blames my wife for my apostacy...and that absolutely is not true.

Had it crossed your mind that your BF may not want to marry you, and that is why he put his family out there as a reason? Hopefully not so.

Best of luck with this unhappy situation. But better it is realized now than after you start your own family.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/03/2014 11:20AM by darksparks.

I'm sorry, but I disagree with most of the posters on this one.

You are not married yet. This is the time for you to be a smart woman and look at the relationship with some wisdom. It is during THIS TIME that you are supposed to look for the red flags to make sure your future does not include breaking the hearts of your little children.

They are the people you should be thinking about.

Your boyfriend has just told you that his commitment to you is conditional on you making it work with his family. He has given power over YOUR LIFE AND HAPPINESS to his TBM family!!! Worse yet, it is a Mormon family who has already demonstrated hatred and disrespect, blamed you for his choices, etc, etc.

In other words, they show you no respect and disrespect you publicly on social media. They would NOT be doing this if he had ever told them, "this is the woman I love and I will not be having a relationship with any of you bitches if you don't show her some respect."

Unless you can look yourself in the mirror and say, "I just love this abuse and want this for myself AND for my children in the future." RUN!

Tell him that you have thought it over and sometimes you have to do what's right for yourself over what you want. Tell him you applaud him for his family loyalty and hope someday to find a man who feels like that about YOU as his family.

Red flags mean stop. You will suffer because you love him, but you will heal. If you marry this man, you will have a lifetime of suffering the likes of which you can't imagine. Just ask tiptoes, a poster on this site. She is the most wonderful woman/wife/mother and fights depression constantly because she can't get treated decently by his TBM family no matter what she does.

Lookin' out for you,

Kathleen Waters

I have two 20-something daughters. If one of them came to me with your story my strong recommendation would be run, not walk, away. The familial baggage attached to your current one is a disaster over which you will never have any influence. Move on. Sorry, but there it is.

I agree with the posters who see this as all wrong. This is very hard for a woman to do (it may be hard for men, too, I don't know; but it's very hard for a woman): you must tell your BF once and for all, you're done dating him, and you certainly will not marry him.

Really, it's up to him to make the break with Mormonism, not you. You can't. You were never Mormon. The underlying paradigms of Mormonism are:
1) families are forever, it's the number one value;
2) Being Mormon (active, or at least not-apostate) is the number-one support of the number-one value.

You will never be part of this thinking, which is fine, so long as this thinking isn't destroying your real life. Your bf hasn't left this thinking behind, even if he's left the church.

1) families are forever. This means he's got to maintain a "relationship" with his family no matter how toxic and abusive the family members are to his chosen loved ones (wife and children). Practically speaking, his family members may say and do any outrageous and punishing thing they want to, to you (and your kids), and your bf will not intercede on your behalf. In his way of thinking, they are always justified because they are his forever family. You are a guest in his forever family, and may take up residence with them only if you can find a way to insinuate yourself into their lives--that is, reconcile with them.

2) Because being Mormon is how you support your forever family, the family members are justified in any outrageous behavior toward you (and your kids) if the behavior serves the end goal of getting him Mormon again. The end entirely justifies the means. His thinking is the same. Everything they do is to get him Mormon. He thinks, "I won't be Mormon, so let them do their worst!" But he's conditioned to be self-centered; their "worst" isn't directed toward him, so it's not really his problem, in his mind. And, he's still caught up with #1, his "relationship" with them. Therefore, they will always be justified in whatever they do--in your bf's mind--and you will always have to "reconcile" with them to maintain a position in his forever family.

This paradigm is insane. As you can see, the drama these two ridiculous views create is preposterous, endless, and completely out-of-bounds. The big trouble is, you're trying to rationalize it. You're trying to make sense out of how your future SIL promised to help you with a doctor's visit, then outrageously hounded you for money, and lied about you and even when you paid her back, she made up rumors about what a parasite you are! Why your next point is about how, at the holidays, she wanted to apologize, is beyond me! Why are you celebrating the holidays with this person? Oh yeah, because she's part of your bf's family--right or wrong--it's like you're marrying the mob.

The problem for you is, this is not your problem, so you can't solve it. This is your bf's problem. He must solve it. If he plans to date, or eventually marry, a non-Mormon, he must decide what a forever family means. If he's willing to go along with his brainwashing that any behavior in service to getting him to be Mormon, if it comes from his family, is to be all right with him because he "understands where they're coming from;" he doesn't know how to be a husband.

He either takes this as a learning opportunity, or he doesn't. But you can't pick up the slack for him. You've got to walk away and let him work it out. If he says, "I'll make sure you never go through any experience like that again." Let him prove it. Because the drama would stop, immediately, if he put a stop to it. The very first letter demanding doctor-payments from his sister, should have been met with a phone call from him saying, "Sis, what's this all about? You said you'd pay for it." Let her explain to him what the letter's all about.

The first mumblings from the family that you led him astray should have been met with a direct statement from him to the effect that: 1) no you didn't; and 2) either this nonsense stops right now, or he will never darken their doors again. And it's very simple not to visit your family at the holidays. You say, "No, mom, we're not coming. Gf's never going through that again. Luv ya."

Honestly, adults do not behave this way. When children behave this way, we punish them. We separate them. There is a zero-tolerance for bullying now in public schools. Their behavior does not even rise to the level that is now expected of first-graders. Really, this is the product of your bf's cult programming at work. You cannot smooth it over for him, he must root it out of his own life and recover.

There is time to step back and look. In this family the bonds and control are with the family, not you. It is clear you are not acceptable to his family. Been there done that. If he don't have the bones to stick up to his family and heap the blame on you, bail out now. It don't get better as time goes by.